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Errors in The Draft constitution!!
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#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:30:57 PM
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Joined: 2/27/2010
Posts: 109
Location: NAIROBI
Mr wako was at a loss how the anomaly had crept into the document even after he and the parliamentary select committee on the constitutional review process had gone through the document. However finally he got an answer. It had to be the NSIS. So now if they could do that what else will they do?

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Sigiriri
#2 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:00:06 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 319
I maintain - let's vote NO until we have a better, trustworthy leadership - then we can do a constitution that is for the led, not for the leaders only!

Let's concentrate on voting in decent men and women come 2012 - that for me remains priority - hizi katiba we dont even know which one we will vote for anyway - for me a firm NO does it for now.

@Pondi - hii mambo ya census pia am convinced kuna jambo hapo - and with 14 million regd voters so far - EVR expected to net a further 3M? - 17M regd voters - Kenya tuko wengi - we need the statistics now!
Wendz
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:08:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Sigiriri wrote:

Let's concentrate on voting in decent men and women come 2012 - that for me remains priority - hizi katiba we dont even know which one we will vote for anyway - for me a firm NO does it for now.


@sigiriri

this constitution gives us a perfect chance to vote noble, trully honorable people. In it, if you have read, you will notice that anyone who has tainted hands will not even pass the preliminary stages of handing in his papers to be considered for election (leave alone being elected). It sieves out all the dirt before we can even get to the ballot. as it is now, it is very difficult to sort them with the current constitution coz it allows for all the rigging, the bribing, buying of votes and funding violence to ensure they get the seat.... IMHO this is the perfect chance we have to get those clean leaders and these we can tell them what we want changed in this katiba..... that way, there wont be all the nonesense of 'our community' is being targetted and warlord tribal chiefs finding their way into power. If we let it go, we are stuck with the same leadership come 2012. Remember, majority of those who vote the bad leaders are actually in rural areas and we all know literacy levels and exposure is wanting and they rely on what "mheshimiwa" and the few 'bought out' right-hand men say.... this document will help sort for them clean leaders even before they vote.
Cardinal
#4 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:10:49 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 266
Yes, the Draft constitution is flawed and thats why it will fail.

look, how can the NSIS propose changes to a draft constitution secretely and the AG doesnt even tell Kenyans to whom the Draft belongs to.

Were it not for our vigilant Media , Nairobi Star* e.t.c we would not have know this.

With this draft, more than never than before..

The No will win, not because of anything but simply because it is not right for Kenyans starting with the Abortion Clause.

Sigiriri
#5 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:28:27 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 319
@wendz, I get your flow and I am really hoping that Kenyans see the urgency in working on the leadership issue. In case the draft does pass - I hope it does what you are mentioning and we finally get decent leaders.

That notwithstanding, I will vote NO and hope that Kenyans - even the rural folk will vote wisely in 2012. The katiba wont really change many lives, but good governance will change all of Kenya - and by extension the people will have better chances at decent livelihood.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#6 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:29:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
The fact that this error was discovered is even more reason to enact the new constitution.

The yes side has all to lose and little to gain by listening to the no side.

If we postpone the vote, then we don't have a new constitution, and if people vote no, then we still don't have a new constitution, so I say let the people decide.

lets take it to the referendum and listen to the view of kenyans, if rejected, we will start again no problems, but what we don't want is to do another circular motion like we have been doing for 20 years.

I will vote a big yes, in any case i suspect the error that a NO voter tried to sneak in is in the current constitution.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Obi 1 Kanobi
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:32:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Sigiriri wrote:
@wendz, I get your flow and I am really hoping that Kenyans see the urgency in working on the leadership issue. In case the draft does pass - I hope it does what you are mentioning and we finally get decent leaders.

That notwithstanding, I will vote NO and hope that Kenyans - even the rural folk will vote wisely in 2012. The katiba wont really change many lives, but good governance will change all of Kenya - and by extension the people will have better chances at decent livelihood.


@Sigiriri

Good leadership is a factor of good laws, not the other way round. First you need good laws that will instil discipline in the characters of leadership.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Magigi
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:39:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
...hata ikibadilishwa kiasi gani, hii proposed will still be better than what is there currently...Ruto and the rest are fighting a losing battle...
mukiha
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:13:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@Cardinal; the error was first reported by the Daily Nation on Tuesday 11th May.

When I read the short story tucked in the middle pages, I went straight to the CoE website and downloaded the Proposed Constitution. Guess what? It also had the words "National Security" in Article 24[1][d].

Now the question arises: where did the CoE get their PDF copy from? Was it from the AG's office or from the Government Press?

Find out who created that PDF and you will know who inserted the the words!

BTW: today I downloaded a second copy from CoE and found that they have corrected the error.

Hapa; iko kitu!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
masukuma
#10 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:22:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
I am guessing neither parliament nor the AG read the draft!! they were told it is 90% good!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Mo
#11 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:38:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/21/2007
Posts: 326
I don't see the alarm here.. The draft as published by the AG is what is meant to become law..any other draft is null and void. I read political mischief from Moi & co.. they are probably use their stooges in nsis to throw the whole process to pandemonium.
My 2 cents
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Tebes
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:40:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
@Mukiha
The draft i did download from the COE website immediately after it was published did not contain the two words. Possibly someone was racing against time to insert it before it was rolled at the government printer. But kenyans are smarter though. The AG admits the first copies did not contain the said additions
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
Tebes
#13 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:46:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097

I am guessing neither parliament nor the AG read the draft!! they were told it is 90% good!
@Masukuma;
I wish I could belive that!Shame on you
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
Sigiriri
#14 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:07:20 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 319
@Obi, I appreciate that fact man, but I have no faith that leaders will change on their own volition or on enacting a new law in the land.

Kenyans and this word - PECULIAR.
VituVingiSana
#15 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:23:22 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,067
Location: Nairobi
Najivunia kuwa Mkenya?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Pierce
#16 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:42:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,464
To have a Katiba that everyone agrees with will take a minimum of a HUNDRED BILLION years.

You vote as you please!

I will not tick the box for yes, I shall write YES in caps(he he spolit vote....)

Just remember this one thing:

Baks & Rao stole millions of votes and they were in separate camps - each checking the other not to rig.

Now they sleep in the same bed.
Intelligentsia
#17 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:02:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
VituVingiSana wrote:
Najivunia kuwa Mkenya?

change the 'V' to 'K' this habit of tinkering with national documents is an unfortunate extension of impunity: from the 9 point whatever billion error, to copy pasting the national budget with figures from a previous year's budget to nsis adding a 'national security' caveat so that they can raid our civil liberties in future tuko down sana kama nyonyi za kuku
but kudos to nsis for actually reading the draft and knowing precisely where to insert their mischief...
Ms Mkenya
#18 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:05:35 PM
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Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
[color=indigo]Every time i read the draft, i see more i dont like.
And by the way i hope the one i am reading is the correct one....

I have also realised that nothing is said of the AG's tenure... How clever of Wako!
[/color]
....above all, to stand.
PONDI
#19 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:13:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/8/2007
Posts: 885
wako must have borrowed uhuru kenyatta's PC....
B.Timer
#20 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:33:58 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
Devils advocate,

What motivated the 'sneakers'.

Might the NSIS, assuming that they did it, been trying to do that which is in the best interest of the country's greater good.


With the sneaked words expunged, are we tying our security personnel's hands behind their backs?

Just as we have had fraudsters in the past hiding in - invoking issues of constitutional reference over fundamental rights being trampled upon, are we likely to get terrorists take us down that road too.
Might this demotivate the security perssonell, leaving us vulnerable to Al shabab and co.
Dunia ni msongamano..
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