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#lipakamatender
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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Kusadikika wrote:There are unemployed Cuban and Tanzanian Doctors ready to come and be employed in Kenyan Public Hospitals!!!
Hii ni ukweli ama ni propaganda ya Munya?
That's news right there. My experience has been, in Tanzania they refer urgent cases for health care to Kenya, much the same way we escalate ours to South Africa or India. Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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B.Timer wrote:Kusadikika wrote:There are unemployed Cuban and Tanzanian Doctors ready to come and be employed in Kenyan Public Hospitals!!!
Hii ni ukweli ama ni propaganda ya Munya?
That's news right there. My experience has been, in Tanzania they refer urgent cases for health care to Kenya, much the same way we escalate ours to South Africa or India. When all that policy makers can do is read hardwood posts and think he's serious, then we have a problem. Kweli they think doctors are like the onions we import from Tanzania? Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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mbona watu wanatishana tishana ni kama walipata information ya unemployed Cuban, Tanzanian, Indian doctors juzi? si waitwe? uone ni wangapi watakuja? vitisho baridi! #lipaKamaTender All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:
mbona watu wanatishana tishana ni kama walipata information ya unemployed Cuban, Tanzanian, Indian doctors juzi? si waitwe? uone ni wangapi watakuja? vitisho baridi! #lipaKamaTender
Yes. Tired as well of the unending back and forth. The government and county governments should stop hee haw-ing, find their collective balls and pull the trigger. One party is going to burn and my morbid curiosity wants to see which.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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Tokyo wrote:County governments should be authorised to recruit qualified doctors elsewhere. The reknown Cuban doctors are earning less than their counterparts in kenya KMPDU has a chokehold on the collective throat of medical care in Kenya. No doctor can work in Kenya without their say-so. Those fingers must be pried open if only for the social good. That is the next logical step.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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thuks wrote:This will have a great (negative) impact on healthcare in Kenya. The government was successful in demonizing doctors. Many of those talking agree that doctors are rotten, money hungry lazy bones.
Who will want to seek help from such?
Health seeking behaviour was bad, how will it pan out after this?
I see seminars to retrain the workers on how to encourage people to go to hospitals, tenders? You assume too much incorrectly. Not all doctors had joined this bandwagon of suffering. Not all doctors have demonized themselves. Not all agree that all doctors are rotten money hungry bones - only Ouma Oluga could be .... Many doctors are actually very likeable and humble people who talk and interact with people nicely in a down to earth fashion. Health care in Kenya has been under those very same health professionals. It maybe superficial to think politicians manage health care. If it has been bad, the health care professionals are to be asked. I for one have not taken this side am on because someone is against it or someone is for it. It is what I feel and know is right.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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doctors have been out of the public hospitals for some 3 months, does it mean these institutions are closed down, ama they are still operating, because if its the latter, we seriously need to reconsider the role of doctors in our public health system.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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Anti_Burglar wrote:The allegations of x number of doctors serving 10,000 number of Kenyans though often quoted with genuine concern but is very misguided. It doesn't help that doctors themselves repeat it often. It should be x number of medical health workers serving 10,000 Kenyans. That is according to the Kenya Health Sector Strategic Plan JULY 2013-JUNE 2017. But it is good he crystalises a main issue as "job group". Anyway, the different levels of health care delivery in the Kenya Essential Package for Health is as follows: 6 Tertiary hospitals
↑
5 Secondary hospitals
↑
4 Primary hospitals
↑
3 Health centres, maternities, nursing homes
↑
2 Dispensaries/clinics
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1 Community: Villages/Households/Families/Individuals Doctors start appearing in that hierarchy at around level 4. The staff at the community health workers level, dispensaries, clinics, health centers do the donkey work within the community. They include enrolled nurses, nurses, clinical officers and such. What they cannot handle is what they refer up the chain. And that is how it should be. There is no point going to say KNH to get diagnosis for Malaria when it can be done at the health center. So what is ailing the health sectors in Kenya? What can be done? For starters, lumping money at the top of the chain in salaries and what not is absolutely not the way to go. Calculating the number of physicians per unit population is a pretty standard way of assessing whether a country has an optimal number of doctors to serve it's population with regard to services that only doctors provide. The more accurate way is to assess each of the clinical groups separately...So number of clinical officers/nurses/community health workers etc per unit population. The various levels of service that you describe are excellent for a universal health care system. Doctors in such a systems get paid a living wage that is not above other civil servants. Our problem is that we are trying to introduce a half-assed for profit component into the picture and expecting some health professionals to stay at the civil servant level, while others go into the private sector. If we do this, then market forces will come into play and health professionals (including CO's and nurses) will want in on the profit pie. Furthermore, the for-profit entities will siphon off the public monies (read NHIF) that are supposed to maintain the public health sector. We either stay with the universal health model or the fully capitalistic model. Trying to blend them cannot end well..
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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I foresee a situation where if other health professionals like nurses and COs raise a demand next, they will be treated well and given what they want without much fuss. All to rub in for the KMPDU. Of course they will have learnt from KMPDU approach how not to do things. It may happen, it may not, I do not know.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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Dahatre wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:The allegations of x number of doctors serving 10,000 number of Kenyans though often quoted with genuine concern but is very misguided. It doesn't help that doctors themselves repeat it often. It should be x number of medical health workers serving 10,000 Kenyans. That is according to the Kenya Health Sector Strategic Plan JULY 2013-JUNE 2017. But it is good he crystalises a main issue as "job group". Anyway, the different levels of health care delivery in the Kenya Essential Package for Health is as follows: 6 Tertiary hospitals
↑
5 Secondary hospitals
↑
4 Primary hospitals
↑
3 Health centres, maternities, nursing homes
↑
2 Dispensaries/clinics
↑
1 Community: Villages/Households/Families/Individuals Doctors start appearing in that hierarchy at around level 4. The staff at the community health workers level, dispensaries, clinics, health centers do the donkey work within the community. They include enrolled nurses, nurses, clinical officers and such. What they cannot handle is what they refer up the chain. And that is how it should be. There is no point going to say KNH to get diagnosis for Malaria when it can be done at the health center. So what is ailing the health sectors in Kenya? What can be done? For starters, lumping money at the top of the chain in salaries and what not is absolutely not the way to go. Calculating the number of physicians per unit population is a pretty standard way of assessing whether a country has an optimal number of doctors to serve it's population with regard to services that only doctors provide. The more accurate way is to assess each of the clinical groups separately...So number of clinical officers/nurses/community health workers etc per unit population. The various levels of service that you describe are excellent for a universal health care system. Doctors in such a systems get paid a living wage that is not above other civil servants. Our problem is that we are trying to introduce a half-assed for profit component into the picture and expecting some health professionals to stay at the civil servant level, while others go into the private sector. If we do this, then market forces will come into play and health professionals (including CO's and nurses) will want in on the profit pie. Furthermore, the for-profit entities will siphon off the public monies (read NHIF) that are supposed to maintain the public health sector. We either stay with the universal health model or the fully capitalistic model. Trying to blend them cannot end well.. The danger with assessing clinical groups separately is that only the loudest and monied noisemakers get heard. When was the last time you heard of the number of pharmtechs per 10,000 kenyans? Anyway that should not distract us. What is the rationale of having a civil service that is separate from the rest of the civil service only in terms of benefits? I will need to understand that better. In any case, the option of not joining the civil service has not been taken away.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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Anti_Burglar wrote:Dahatre wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:The allegations of x number of doctors serving 10,000 number of Kenyans though often quoted with genuine concern but is very misguided. It doesn't help that doctors themselves repeat it often. It should be x number of medical health workers serving 10,000 Kenyans. That is according to the Kenya Health Sector Strategic Plan JULY 2013-JUNE 2017. But it is good he crystalises a main issue as "job group". Anyway, the different levels of health care delivery in the Kenya Essential Package for Health is as follows: 6 Tertiary hospitals
↑
5 Secondary hospitals
↑
4 Primary hospitals
↑
3 Health centres, maternities, nursing homes
↑
2 Dispensaries/clinics
↑
1 Community: Villages/Households/Families/Individuals Doctors start appearing in that hierarchy at around level 4. The staff at the community health workers level, dispensaries, clinics, health centers do the donkey work within the community. They include enrolled nurses, nurses, clinical officers and such. What they cannot handle is what they refer up the chain. And that is how it should be. There is no point going to say KNH to get diagnosis for Malaria when it can be done at the health center. So what is ailing the health sectors in Kenya? What can be done? For starters, lumping money at the top of the chain in salaries and what not is absolutely not the way to go. Calculating the number of physicians per unit population is a pretty standard way of assessing whether a country has an optimal number of doctors to serve it's population with regard to services that only doctors provide. The more accurate way is to assess each of the clinical groups separately...So number of clinical officers/nurses/community health workers etc per unit population. The various levels of service that you describe are excellent for a universal health care system. Doctors in such a systems get paid a living wage that is not above other civil servants. Our problem is that we are trying to introduce a half-assed for profit component into the picture and expecting some health professionals to stay at the civil servant level, while others go into the private sector. If we do this, then market forces will come into play and health professionals (including CO's and nurses) will want in on the profit pie. Furthermore, the for-profit entities will siphon off the public monies (read NHIF) that are supposed to maintain the public health sector. We either stay with the universal health model or the fully capitalistic model. Trying to blend them cannot end well.. The danger with assessing clinical groups separately is that only the loudest and monied noisemakers get heard. When was the last time you heard of the number of pharmtechs per 10,000 kenyans? Anyway that should not distract us. What is the rationale of having a civil service that is separate from the rest of the civil service only in terms of benefits? I will need to understand that better. In any case, the option of not joining the civil service has not been taken away. Pls see my third paragraph above. A for-profit health system creates market forces that allow competition for labor. Civil servants are forced to compete with the private sector.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/10/2010 Posts: 2,264
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masukuma wrote:mbona watu wanatishana tishana ni kama walipata information ya unemployed Cuban, Tanzanian, Indian doctors juzi? si waitwe? uone ni wangapi watakuja? vitisho baridi! #lipaKamaTender  add egypt nigeria morocco tunisia algeria mali senegal zambia DRC across the oceans we go to bangladesh vietnam china poland ukrein . With an intnational souce market our hospitals will be filled in a week Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:doctors have been out of the public hospitals for some 3 months, does it mean these institutions are closed down, ama they are still operating, because if its the latter, we seriously need to reconsider the role of doctors in our public health system. why is this thread active with threats if the institutions are working? just because you can drive a car with a flat tyre does not mean you should reconsider the role of pressurized tires in the operation of a car! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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According to the Government, this is now fait accompli - so when are the new Doctors expected to be in place and usual operations resumed fully! Have the logistics of that whole operation been factored realistically. How does the conclusion of that process compare to the alternative - signing the CBA as hammered with the help of the faith based groups and letting KMPDU doctors resume operations immediately. Foreign doctors will need to settle down, acclimatise, deal with language barriers, familiarise themselves with the work environment, figure out how to get to Mandera, wajir etc. In the meantime the Kenyan poor patient remains the guinea pig. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/11/2007 Posts: 694
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I want to twist the doctors debate abit and point to the fact that, Kenyans in real sense should be debating on reversing the salaries of government officials and leaders downwards. Otherwise things are bad. Many companies are unable to sustain their wage bill because of the current economic situation. Everybody now want to work for the government because the pay is good. The private sector where am is staring at a lock down. Just a simple question what is the entry point of a fresh graduate. Is it possible for a fresh graduate to start earning 150k and above.I believe it is a high time Kenyans start this debate
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Doctors should have known when to accept the govt offer during their negotiations. Now they are reporting back to work with their tails coiled between their legs. I thought doctors were wise but now everyone can see they are quite dumb and overrated. As the saying goes, "mtaka yote hukosa yote" and also "tamaa iliua fisi". https://www.capitalfm.co...ck-to-work-hat-in-hand/
Quote:Public hospitals across the country are reporting that striking doctors have started resuming duty, two days after President Uhuru Kenyatta read them the riot act in Naivasha.
Makueni leads with 50 percent of doctors back, followed closely by Nyandarua, Kiambu and Machakos, Lamu and Taita Taveta, according to Health Principal Secretary Nicholas Muraguri.
He indicated that “other hospitals where operations have resumed include Mathare Mental Health hospital, Moi Referral Hospital and the Kenyatta National Hospital.”
He stated that services remain uninterrupted in Bomet, Lamu, Wajir, Mandera Samburu and Turkana.
The resumption comes at a time the government has started sacking those who failed to heed President Kenyatta’s directive in drastic measures aimed at ending the three-month strike called by doctors union officials who have turned down the government offer of a 40 per cent pay increase.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/8/2013 Posts: 4,068 Location: At Large.
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Our good doctors lost it when they met with The president and refused his offer.They should have known that any other negotiation was not going to go beyond what the President had offered. Again after the release of the "Kapenguria 6" they went about bragging that their resolve had been made stronger,that infact the offer has to be back dated to 2013,they also bragged they no longer deal with watu wa huku chini they can only negotiate huko juu.Well..... they now know otherwise.Pride comes before a fall. I do not support the sacking and I wish the offer is reinstated....but going foward they know who calls the shots. Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
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