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Land injustice and the ugly that we love to ignore
Rollout
#1 Posted : Tuesday, March 07, 2017 11:31:49 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 759
I was reading a story about the killing of a rancher in Lakipia included in the story is how he left British Army in late 80s maybe and game to Africa looking for jobs on a motorbike in 1990. 27 years later he is dead, killed in a large Ranch he owned in Likipia.

While I believe that anyone should be able to own land anywhere in the world, I think 99.9% of Kenyans continue to be cheated every day. Kenyatta, Moi, their friends and a few white people own all large private track of land in Kenya. If you drive from Nyeri to Nakuru through Likipia, there are large track of land owned by a few individuals and government, every time they need to extend their property, the government somehow just sell them a piece of the government land and life continues. It's been like that for 60+ years.

Those track of Land are not available for 99.9% of Kenyans, you will not even know when a government land is to be lease or sold. Otherwise majority of Ranches actually belong to Kenyans. There is a white guy in Eldoret, he owns like 10k acres of land that he never bought, a couple of years ago he was selling an acre for Ksh 1M. 99.9% of Kenyans should stop fighting amongst themselves because they were all cheated.

tycho
#2 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:54:49 AM
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Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Is it true that anyone should be able to OWN land anywhere in the world? Isn't the idea of ownership the big problem here?
majimaji
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:44:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162

The land issue was not addressed in the new Constitution. It was a major omission. In my view, all land should belong to the people with Govt as the Trustee. As a matter of fact, in the African traditional setting, the community owned the land and used it collectively as a resource.
wukan
#4 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 10:13:30 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,589
Sossian ranch was a result of capital invested by the British rancher. Before that there was just an overgrazed wilderness. The kenyan herders will have those lands which they will overgraze and degrade. Then they will move on the next target. That's not a sustainable way of living. Reminds of that Ted talk by Jared Diamond "Why societies collapse?"

Quote:
In analyzing societal collapses, I've arrived at a five-point framework — a checklist of things that I go through to try and understand collapses. And I'll illustrate that five-point framework by the extinction of the Greenland Norse society. This is a European society with literate records, so we know a good deal about the people and their motivation. In AD 984 Vikings went out to Greenland, settled Greenland, and around 1450 they died out — the society collapsed, and every one of them ended up dead.
2:25
Why did they all end up dead? Well, in my five-point framework, the first item on the framework is to look for human impacts on the environment: people inadvertently destroying the resource base on which they depend. And in the case of the Viking Norse, the Vikings inadvertently caused soil erosion and deforestation, which was a particular problem for them because they required forests to make charcoal, to make iron. So they ended up an Iron Age European society, virtually unable to make their own iron. A second item on my checklist is climate change. Climate can get warmer or colder or dryer or wetter. In the case of the Vikings — in Greenland, the climate got colder in the late 1300s, and especially in the 1400s. But a cold climate isn't necessarily fatal, because the Inuit — the Eskimos inhabiting Greenland at the same time — did better, rather than worse, with cold climates. So why didn't the Greenland Norse as well?
3:26
The third thing on my checklist is relations with neighboring friendly societies that may prop up a society. And if that friendly support is pulled away, that may make a society more likely to collapse. In the case of the Greenland Norse, they had trade with the mother country — Norway — and that trade dwindled: partly because Norway got weaker, partly because of sea ice between Greenland and Norway.
3:52
The fourth item on my checklist is relations with hostile societies. In the case of Norse Greenland, the hostiles were the Inuit — the Eskimos sharing Greenland — with whom the Norse got off to bad relationships. And we know that the Inuit killed the Norse and, probably of greater importance, may have blocked access to the outer fjords, on which the Norse depended for seals at a critical time of the year.
4:20
And then finally, the fifth item on my checklist is the political, economic, social and cultural factors in the society that make it more or less likely that the society will perceive and solve its environmental problems. In the case of the Greenland Norse, cultural factors that made it difficult for them to solve their problems were: their commitments to a Christian society investing heavily in cathedrals; their being a competitive-ranked chiefly society; and their scorn for the Inuit, from whom they refused to learn. So that's how the five-part framework is relevant to the collapse and eventual extinction of the Greenland Norse.
Rahatupu
#5 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 1:43:16 PM
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Joined: 12/4/2009
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The marginalization and historical injustice narrative will be Kenya's undoing. This story that people have entitlement beyound their own initiatives, drive and motivation is a facade that must end.

Unless it is proven that someone or a group of people lost land due to fraud, forceful eviction or as was in Adrian Muteshi versus arab Samoei case the narrative that so and so owns so much hence should be dispossesed is just hogwash bull CRAP.
Rollout
#6 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 5:54:36 PM
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Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 759
Rahatupu wrote:
The marginalization and historical injustice narrative will be Kenya's undoing. This story that people have entitlement beyound their own initiatives, drive and motivation is a facade that must end.

Unless it is proven that someone or a group of people lost land due to fraud, forceful eviction or as was in Adrian Muteshi versus arab Samoei case the narrative that so and so owns so much hence should be dispossesed is just hogwash bull CRAP.


The British actually took people's land, they did not just occupied empty land. My great grand father who died 10 years ago grew up as the house boy of a British family( the family who kicked out his own family), his father was kept as an house boy after his family was moved to reservations to create space for the British family.
My real grand father who is in his late 70s grew up with the white kids because his father was a house boy. After independence the white family gave back the land to my great grand father and left, the white kids who grew up with my grand father are now in their 70s and live in Nairobi, some in Australia. The point is, some British was kind enough to give back the land, some sold the learn they never really bought and some stayed on the land they evicted people from.
Just like the British, Kenyatta evicted people from Central and part of Rift valley to create space for himself. Moi and Kenyatta and their friends also took the land that was suppose to be redistributed to displaced communities post independence. Between 1960 to now, majority of expired land leases which were held by companies dated back to colonization were transferred to individuals, coffee estates, tea farms, forests etc.
Mark Too in eldoret owned ~ 4000 acres of land situated between Eldoret airport and Eldoret town, that land was leased to a company dated back to the british times, no one knows when and how Mark acquired such a prime land, well there are 1000s of those type of deals.

So while you are fight another poor kale or Kyuk or Luo, you're getting cheated every day. Do you think, if I had capital, I'd be able to be allocated a Ranch in Likipia? You're dream.
Alba
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:48:34 PM
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Joined: 12/27/2012
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Location: Bandalungwa
majimaji wrote:

The land issue was not addressed in the new Constitution. It was a major omission. In my view, all land should belong to the people with Govt as the Trustee. As a matter of fact, in the African traditional setting, the community owned the land and used it collectively as a resource.


I quite agree. This is how it should have been.
Kenyans obsession with acquiring land for the sake of it is actually a big hindrance to economic growth.
tycho
#8 Posted : Thursday, March 09, 2017 7:27:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Obviously, this is an issue that has received very little critical thought.
Much Know
#9 Posted : Thursday, March 09, 2017 8:19:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
Alba wrote:
majimaji wrote:

The land issue was not addressed in the new Constitution. It was a major omission. In my view, all land should belong to the people with Govt as the Trustee. As a matter of fact, in the African traditional setting, the community owned the land and used it collectively as a resource.


I quite agree. This is how it should have been.
Kenyans obsession with acquiring land for the sake of it is actually a big hindrance to economic growth.

Do you print your own title deed, or are you given one by government? Do you guy's know anything about land laws? Land is not an issue in Kenya, labda ujinga, wivu e.t.c, if you have a good use for land, there's plenty, the guy from yala swamps want's to dump 6'000 acres, it will remain that way, if you have land solutions, make sure at least to give us logic how to deal with yala swamps, before even talking of land. You will even be given money for the IDEA and the land FREE, Mutua is giving out land to people who have IDEAS free, yours is a lack of ideas!

Mzee Kenyatta dealt with the land issue the best way on the planet and that is what students even in Havard the best university in the world are taught today! The rest of talk about land is STUPIDITY!
A New Kenya
Rahatupu
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 09, 2017 8:19:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
@rllout.

My ancestral home is the current Karen Hardy area where Karen Blixen evicted my great grand parents to Dagorretit, Thogoto and Gikambura. That said. If we're t tak that route then Zimbabwe comes to mind let chaos reign fr whatever period till we all get a piece f it.

Secondly Jomo only did a shoddy job in reallocation of what tg Whitman had taken from our forebears. He didn't evict. White Highlands were redistributed among cronies of the Jomo regime and some scrapped for squatters who JM died struggling for.

@Tycho yeah me thinks it was deliberately left as is
tycho
#11 Posted : Friday, March 10, 2017 6:22:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Rahatupu, who left things as they are? And is/are the same people responsible for any change, and how can any change be achieved?
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