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I am voting No
Wendz
#21 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30:30 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
famooz wrote:
Could someone please help me understand,in simple terms,the main radical changes that the proposed constitution will bring to the table? Does it mark a complete departure from the old way of doing things to a new dawn? If not,then this is just hot air.


@famooz

Si you have been conferred the powers to read? Why do you want someone to give you their opinion? it may have immediate effects to their lives which may be different from yours... Make your own choice...

http://www.coekenya.go.k...nstitution_of_kenya.pdf
nanfor1
#22 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:32:16 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
sky5

correct me if I'm wrong, but did you just say that the present constitution is GOOD?

Next time you try and trivialise the death of people in 1992, 1997, 2002 please say a prayer.

You tell me one Good thing you know in the current constitution. This is the very constitution where men could not talk in pubs about their leaders lest they are taken to Nyayo House. Do you know there are people in our country who are still scared of that building?


Please do not tell me that you think that the current constitution is OK. The very constitution that allowed someone to be sworn in at night.

The vote is very clear.

If you vote Yes, you reject the current constitution.
If you vote No, you accept the current constitution.

I for one will not accept a constitution that allows policemen to shoot people in the back. I will will accept a constitution that says that women cannot inherit property. I will not accept a constitution that says, that even as I am typing this, people who stole a chicken will hang while people who can steal billions of shillings can run to be president.
Hata wakizima taa
Brewer
#23 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:41:09 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
Wendz, you listened to a lawyer say that? Ouch! The clause on abortion says that abortion is not permitted except where:
a) a trained health provisional forms the opinion that there is need for emergency treatment or life or health of the mother is in danger, or
b)as may be permitted by any other written law.
The a) part above is loaded with heavy exceptions that make the general statement "abortion is not permitted" almost meaningless. And as if that was not enough, the b) part states that more exceptions are coming. It is almost laughable except that we are dealing with such a serious issue that someone, not least a lawyer, can then say without qualification that 'abortion is not permitted'.

Nanfor1 you throw wild and wide blows!
mukiha
#24 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:45:58 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Honestly? I don't give a hoot about abortion! Whether it is allowed or not will not affect the way I vote.

Same goes for the Kadhi Court. have it or not have it makes no difference to me.

Anyone else in my boat?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
masukuma
#25 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:46:50 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
its all about what we find important! it is not about the numeric number of things right vs wrong.
its a mug of tea, full of hot steamy tea. well brewed and just the right amount of sugar.
Dependant on what you value, some of the issues raised may look to you as remnants of tea leaves that you can drink and sieve the foreign things using your mouth to spit out later or may be something very unbearable such as a big blue pit-latrine fly that you will ask the attendant to take back the cup and give you something better.
its all about values.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tuvok
#26 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:49:11 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/2/2007
Posts: 536
famooz wrote:
Could someone please help me understand,in simple terms,the main radical changes that the proposed constitution will bring to the table? Does it mark a complete departure from the old way of doing things to a new dawn? If not,then this is just hot air.


I've a feeling too that unless the WAY of doing things changes, nothing will change new constitution or not.

While we are at it, there's 3 months to the referendum. Can we talk about other things in the meantime, at least until July.
mozenrat
#27 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:49:37 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
@Wendz..

Some fundamental issues...

Right to life - guaranteed in the new constitution..
Right to life even for foetuses is guaranteed
EXCEPT
in where the life or health of the mother is in danger.

That is the scenario just like in the old one...
Right to life GUARANTEED except if a judge convicts you of a capital offense...

My only problem is this use of 'trained health professional'... In this Kenya?? I have a cousin who attended a 2 months 'medical certificate' and I sent my househelp for a '1 week course' with St. Johns ambulance. Are these not trained health professionals. All the CoE had to do was defined who a trained health professional is just like they did with judicial officers
AmHere
#28 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:49:39 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 93
We might be overly hyping this document regardless of its merits or demerits. Kenya's problem is the law yes but much more than that is a culture of failing to respect the law, in other words impunity. A new constitution cannot change that though it is a step in the right direction. Realistic expectations would help.
nanfor1
#29 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:52:21 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
@Brewer

Let us take for the sake of argument that you are right. You are lying though but its just an argument.

so we vote No because of what you think.

We stay with the current katiba.

Do you have the penal code with you. What does it say about abortion? Do you know what it says are were you told by your clergy? what is the difference between the current penal code and the proposed constitution? Do you even have a clue?

So what you want us to do, is to vote No. We keep the current constitution, with the present penal code.

Can you please tell us exactly how many babies you will have saved?

I want us to talk numbers here. Muache imaginations.

If kenya votes no solely because of your serious misinterpretation of the clause, exactly how many babies will you have saved?

I will tell you that if I vote Yes, I will forever stop poor people being jailed with flimsy cases, because they cannot afford a lawyer.

it is crunch time people. It is time for numbers now. Stop lying to Kenyans and tell the truth as you are commanded by your religion. Hii uongo mtaacha. You are lying to Kenyans. The question is, what is your real agenda?
Hata wakizima taa
chepkel
#30 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:54:22 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 741
Location: Nairobi
Hii story ya abortion ni kali sana. I believe 80% of people saying No to abortion have probably done it, know someone who has done it (and probably supported them) or at least thought of doing it at some point in their lives. i know several who have done it. Seriously, we like to shout righteousness at the top of our voices lakini kwa roho zetu vitu mbaya zinachemka.

Anyway, whether this clause is there or not abortions will happen. I do not believe the number of abortions will increase because of this clause.

People argue that medial practitioners will abuse this law. Well, we have the police force and a medical body that can place preventive measures or act quickly to catch these crooks. This clause has been put there with good intentions and it should be allowed to stay.

Medical and police officers can step up their game. Crack down on illegal clinics, do undercover work, and thoroughly investigate mpaka people will fear these things.

We should try to help our girls have knowledge on contraceptives and reproductive health to avoid unwanted pregnancies because seriously there are very many methods which can be used at affordable rates that can protect people from pregnancy. Tuko 21st century zile myth za ati "if you have sex while standing you will not get pregnant ama if you quickly take a bath after sex you will avoid pregnancy" must not make arounds and you will be suprised at the things girls believe !!


So voting No because of the Abortion clause is unwise. Please find another reason to vote No.
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