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Attorney General for Life!!
Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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The Draft Constitution creates an attorney general who may hold onto the post till he or she drops dead!! See Article 156. I stand corrected.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/26/2008 Posts: 319
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I maintain - let's vote NO until we have a better, trustworthy leadership - then we can do a constitution that is for the led, not for the leaders only!
Let's concentrate on voting in decent men and women come 2012 - that for me remains priority - hizi katiba we dont even know which one we will vote for anyway - for me a firm NO does it for now.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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@sigiriri
how will you ensure that we vote trustworthy leaders when the current constitution gives room for the rigging, violence, bribing, buying of votes during the election? And with the majority of kenyan voters being in rural areas where they rely on what their 'mheshimiwa'says? I doubt we are going to get those trustworthy leaders without a law that will ensure only the clean vie for the electoral seats which the proposed constitution will ensure. these others are way too minor to hold this country at the state where we are in..... the rights we have as kenyans in the proposed constitution is good and with an independent judiciary and reforms with the police, seriously....... who cares about attorney general... Wako has been there since i can remember and that hasnt been part of the many problems that we have been having....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2009 Posts: 2,375
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the AG is very slimy. It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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its not only the AG, several offices have been left 'hanging' with no tenure or means of exit. even principal secretaries cannot be expelled. they can only resign. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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@Wendz!! You really want an AG for life knowing fully well that the current one has allowed impunity in relation to corruption and other vices for so long?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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Hmmmn, @Mpenzi interesting observation. On comparing with current constitution where dismissing the Attorney-General is such a hustle (tribunal and all), it seems the new one allows president to appoint and dismiss as he deems fit.
The office of the Deputy of Public Prosecutions is the one given an 8 year security of tenure. So ideally and AG could be gone in 1 year.
Functions of the President
132 (2) The President shall nominate and, with the approval of the National Assembly, appoint, and may dismiss —
(a) the Cabinet Secretaries, in accordance with Article 152;
(b) the Attorney-General, in accordance with Article 156;
(c) the Secretary to the Cabinet in accordance with Article 154;
(d) Principal Secretaries in accordance with Article 155;
(e) high commissioners, ambassadors and diplomatic and consular
representatives; and
(f) in accordance with this Constitution, any other State or public officer whom this Constitution requires or empowers the President to appoint or dismiss.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@Mpenzi, its a really bad mentality to say YES to everything. Very Bad, i think it shows character to say a FIRM and PEACEFUL NO! jokingly speaking: we would not have this abortion problem if we taught our daughters to say a firm NO and in the right tone. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@muganda, what you say is half true. he can hire and fire as he deems fit in accordance with 156. the issue is the reference to 156 which should state that he can be fired in case of misconduct or something else or he can resign but is very silent on this compared to the other offices listed there. it does not even open up a leeway for parliament. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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@muganda
Thanks for pointing out Article 132(2). It seems the intention is to remove the security of tenure (subject to removal through investigations by a tribunal) that the AG enjoys under the current Constitution. But do we want to have an AG whose tenure is so tenuous that he or she becomes amenable to political manipulation?
Just to be clear, I would wish to see an AG who is not on the job for life but at the same time whose dismissal is not done at the whim of the President.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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@Mpenzi
I think the current one has managed to encourage impunity because of our court systems... when the cases are taken to court, he has powers to stop proceedings etc or whatever lawyers call them and recall the file... i doubt he will be able to do that with an independent judiciary.... but i stand to be corrected.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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 @Mpenzi, you may find that when it says AG for life it's a problem, when it says AG can be dismissed by president it's a problem, and some say even the current setup (a tribunal) is still another problem.Honestly, human beings are such emotional creatures. Many of us said YES or NO and then we begin reading the constitution (if we even do). Everything either affirms our assent, or confirms our rejection. When I was a young man life was very black and white. As I've grown foolish with age, I've come to look with nostalgia on my convictions of days gone by. And I started by looking at where I fell short. And I've come to realise that constitution making / dealing with people / is an art of compromise. So a strong YES proponent (MPs) or a strong NO proponent (church) can never produce a constitution. It's a difficult selfless job done by imperfect human beings.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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masukuma wrote:
jokingly speaking:
we would not have this abortion problem if we taught our daughters to say a firm NO and in the right tone.
And joking even further...........Who said married women don't procure abortions? IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@mwenza, they are someone's daughters. but its all jocular. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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look at how people jumped into this one..
the AG model is very much borrowed from the Americans..
As much as he has a lifelong tenure, please not a new president can appoint a new AG, so if he decides to have a new Attoney general.. it is bye bye to the current occupier..
But he has to be approved by parliament, meaning their life long tenures are tied to the life of a presidency, parliaments will to accepts the presidents choice and lastly he's track record (if theirs nothing wrong with it dont fix it, case in point Obama retaining the secretary of defense)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/1/2009 Posts: 2,436
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Can you think of the AG's office without thinking of Amos S. Wako?
One unfortunate aspect is that we debate the offices (& their future) of constitutional office holders with the current office holder in mind, rather than with the Office - with its roles & responsibilities - in mind.
This is the problem of having one man too long at a particular post, so that in the public eye he/ she is synonymous with the office.
Amos huyo Wako can be for life but Amos Wangu should have a term limit, as indeed any other public servant.
BTW, Wako remains a good case study of the paradox of people who have very impressive cvs but this does not translate into an ability to execute the responsibilities of their Office as impressively.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@PundaFoolish, i beg to differ. unless you are reading the same draft i am reading. you are having what is called wishful thinking. poundfoolish wrote:
As much as he has a lifelong tenure, please not a new president can appoint a new AG, so if he decides to have a new Attorney general.. it is bye bye to the current occupier..
where is this extracted from? you think this is how it should play out, but its not expressly stated. i foresee i crisis since the mchama cannot even resign. poundfoolish wrote:
But he has to be approved by parliament, meaning their life long tenures are tied to the life of a presidency, parliament will to accepts the presidents choice.
this is incorrect, just because he is approved by a session of parliament like many other people does not imply that he is tied to the life of a presidency. once the dude/dudette is in...he stays in. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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@masukuma
As correctly pointed out by muganda above, the President can appoint (with parliamentary approval) and dismiss the AG - Article 132(2).
But I must quickly add that Article 132(2) is poorly/improperly drafted as it seems to suggest that the dismissal of the AG shall be in accordance with Article 156 yet Article 156 says nothing about dismissal!!
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