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Elade Attack
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,633
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kaka2za wrote:ZZE123 wrote:Shak wrote:So what is now coming out is that the shabaab overran the camp and killed several of our KDF before fighter jets flew in hours later and scattered the enemy who had taken over the camp How many of our KDF heroes did we lose??  Sadly,the body bags count might be over 30! So those fighter jets we see on national days are for entertainment only? We are told they can fly to Somalia in minutes yet they took hours to get there! There is something known as chain of command. Those are not matatus entering Thika road.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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wukan wrote:kaka2za wrote:ZZE123 wrote:Shak wrote:So what is now coming out is that the shabaab overran the camp and killed several of our KDF before fighter jets flew in hours later and scattered the enemy who had taken over the camp How many of our KDF heroes did we lose?? Sadly,the body bags count might be over 30! So those fighter jets we see on national days are for entertainment only? We are told they can fly to Somalia in minutes yet they took hours to get there! There is something known as chain of command. Those are not matatus entering Thika road. Yet Turkish airforce reacted to Russian intrusion in minutes. I guess they don't have chain of command over there. Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,633
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kaka2za wrote:wukan wrote:kaka2za wrote:ZZE123 wrote:Shak wrote:So what is now coming out is that the shabaab overran the camp and killed several of our KDF before fighter jets flew in hours later and scattered the enemy who had taken over the camp How many of our KDF heroes did we lose?? Sadly,the body bags count might be over 30! So those fighter jets we see on national days are for entertainment only? We are told they can fly to Somalia in minutes yet they took hours to get there! There is something known as chain of command. Those are not matatus entering Thika road. Yet Turkish airforce reacted to Russian intrusion in minutes. I guess they don't have chain of command over there. Actually Turkey had yuge chain of command issues. They ended up in an abortive coup shortly after. remember
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/4/2007 Posts: 1,162
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What Kenya needs to do is annex territory, create a buffer zone and do extreme pacification that even a squirrel will not raise it's head above ground.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 1,049
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majimaji wrote:
What Kenya needs to do is annex territory, create a buffer zone and do extreme pacification that even a squirrel will not raise it's head above ground.
That is Israel styleJust as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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majimaji wrote:
What Kenya needs to do is annex territory, create a buffer zone and do extreme pacification that even a squirrel will not raise it's head above ground.
Before the Amisom mission, we tried this strategy through proxy militias and it backfired spectacularly. The only way Somalia will know peace is by involving the people and disarming the war lords.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/22/2009 Posts: 2,449 Location: Africa
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chemirocha wrote:majimaji wrote:
What Kenya needs to do is annex territory, create a buffer zone and do extreme pacification that even a squirrel will not raise it's head above ground.
Before the Amisom mission, we tried this strategy through proxy militias and it backfired spectacularly. The only way Somalia will know peace is by involving the people and disarming the war lords. Is it true that it is Saudi Arabia behind the conflict in Somalia and Yemen and what do they stand to gain?. Someone must be arming these fellows
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/8/2007 Posts: 709
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Last year Kenya lost 141 soldiers in Elade, this year again we are not even sure the number.
All the goverment does is PR, and deny deny.
CS omamo just goes to the families to weep,a few hugs then forget. Isnt it sad that that's the only reaction Kenya does?
No retaliation, no decisions,nothing!
A UN report detailed how Kenyan soldiers in somalia are busy engaged to other activaties, of money making, Amison allowances ,charcoal dealingetc.
It's the high time the troops leave Somalia.So much pain to their families.
Build the WALL.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Shak wrote:Is it true that it is Saudi Arabia behind the conflict in Somalia and Yemen and what do they stand to gain?. Someone must be arming these fellows This has more to do with the rivalry between the Saudis and Iranians. Particularly the situation in Yemen is basically a proxy war between the two major Islamic powers.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/15/2009 Posts: 371
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I have never understood people who lament that we are losing a lot of soldiers in Somalia and that they should pull out and guards our boarders.It is not possible to guard our porous boarders. It is the best decision to have our soldiers there and keep those terrorists in check. If they are left, they will bring the war to our doorstep. These terrorists are very evil people. Given the chance (by withdrawing our soldiers), they will attack us in our shopping malls, they will attack our children in schools, they will attack us on our cities streets and our homes. Since, if they are left alone, they will breed and acquire more and sophisticated weapons.
There is NOTHING like: IF WE LEAVE THEM ALONE, THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/4/2007 Posts: 1,162
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Nandwa wrote:majimaji wrote:
What Kenya needs to do is annex territory, create a buffer zone and do extreme pacification that even a squirrel will not raise it's head above ground.
That is Israel style When you go to war, you must go in and punch properly, not just having smart haircuts and wearing opaque shades.And if the enemy is a faceless combatant, you too must be faceless and merge with the population. Avoid linear thinking, the enemy will not use the front gate to attack. It is not the job of the military to be loved, their job is to be feared. If I were CinC, I would have a 200km buffer zone, permanently annexed and have the maps re-drawn, then we can be discussing it in UN junkets in New York. Learn from Putin.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,633
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Caveman wrote:I have never understood people who lament that we are losing a lot of soldiers in Somalia and that they should pull out and guards our boarders.It is not possible to guard our porous boarders. It is the best decision to have our soldiers there and keep those terrorists in check. If they are left, they will bring the war to our doorstep. These terrorists are very evil people. Given the chance (by withdrawing our soldiers), they will attack us in our shopping malls, they will attack our children in schools, they will attack us on our cities streets and our homes. Since, if they are left alone, they will breed and acquire more and sophisticated weapons.
There is NOTHING like: IF WE LEAVE THEM ALONE, THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE. I agree appeasement has never worked. People who forget history often tend to repeat it. History tells us of the Abyssinian-Adal wars of 1529-1543 when Ethiopian highlands were captured and looted, or the more recent Ogaden war where the Ethiopia was again at risk of being overrun. Let's fight them over there and gain fighting experience. At least all those terrorist killed by KDf won't be roaming around our cities. But we should honour our dead soldiers in a much better way.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Caveman wrote:I have never understood people who lament that we are losing a lot of soldiers in Somalia and that they should pull out and guards our boarders.It is not possible to guard our porous boarders. It is the best decision to have our soldiers there and keep those terrorists in check. If they are left, they will bring the war to our doorstep. These terrorists are very evil people. Given the chance (by withdrawing our soldiers), they will attack us in our shopping malls, they will attack our children in schools, they will attack us on our cities streets and our homes. Since, if they are left alone, they will breed and acquire more and sophisticated weapons.
There is NOTHING like: IF WE LEAVE THEM ALONE, THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE. Operation Linda nchi started in 2011. Five years later it has not accomplished anything and I am sure 5 years from now we will not in the same spot. And all those things you mentioned above have already happened since Linda nchi started and were not happening prior to 2011. Finally, KDF top brass lacks the discipline and knowledge to execute this operation. They are still making the same errors over and over. again. Mostly they are interested on shady deals. Decades of promotion based on tribal affiliation has taken its toll on the military. Your argument might make sense if we had a capable military. I am afraid we do not. Lets put aside our patriotic goggles and face the truth. This is the same KDF that shot and killed a GSU commander and completely botched the westgate mission then proceeded to loot. This is the same KDF that made glaring errors at El Adde and appears to be repeating the same mistakes now. They still do not set up camps in defendable positions, they have not fortified against VBIEDS, intelligence use and gathering appears lax. ................ And how is it possible that KDF had advance knowledge of the attack yet did not re-inforce the camp? And this camp was near the border yet aerial re-inforcements came 2 hours after the attack had started. And you have faith that KDF will pacify Somalia? Even America could not pacify Afghanistan or Iraq and .
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/4/2007 Posts: 1,162
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Alba wrote:Caveman wrote:I have never understood people who lament that we are losing a lot of soldiers in Somalia and that they should pull out and guards our boarders.It is not possible to guard our porous boarders. It is the best decision to have our soldiers there and keep those terrorists in check. If they are left, they will bring the war to our doorstep. These terrorists are very evil people. Given the chance (by withdrawing our soldiers), they will attack us in our shopping malls, they will attack our children in schools, they will attack us on our cities streets and our homes. Since, if they are left alone, they will breed and acquire more and sophisticated weapons.
There is NOTHING like: IF WE LEAVE THEM ALONE, THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE. Operation Linda nchi started in 2011. Five years later it has not accomplished anything and I am sure 5 years from now we will not in the same spot. And all those things you mentioned above have already happened since Linda nchi started and were not happening prior to 2011. Finally, KDF top brass lacks the discipline and knowledge to execute this operation. They are still making the same errors over and over. again. Mostly they are interested on shady deals. Decades of promotion based on tribal affiliation has taken its toll on the military. Your argument might make sense if we had a capable military. I am afraid we do not. Lets put aside our patriotic goggles and face the truth. This is the same KDF that shot and killed a GSU commander and completely botched the westgate mission then proceeded to loot. This is the same KDF that made glaring errors at El Adde and appears to be repeating the same mistakes now. They still do not set up camps in defendable positions, they have not fortified against VBIEDS, intelligence use and gathering appears lax. ................ And how is it possible that KDF had advance knowledge of the attack yet did not re-inforce the camp? And this camp was near the border yet aerial re-inforcements came 2 hours after the attack had started. And you have faith that KDF will pacify Somalia? Even America could not pacify Afghanistan or Iraq and . If thieves are robbing your house every year, do you stop protecting yourself because they are still attacking after 5 years. No!! you protect yourself even if it takes a life-time...there is a cost for freedom. And you need to shoot their sons before they take up arms and attack you also. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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wukan wrote:kaka2za wrote:wukan wrote:kaka2za wrote:ZZE123 wrote:Shak wrote:So what is now coming out is that the shabaab overran the camp and killed several of our KDF before fighter jets flew in hours later and scattered the enemy who had taken over the camp How many of our KDF heroes did we lose?? Sadly,the body bags count might be over 30! So those fighter jets we see on national days are for entertainment only? We are told they can fly to Somalia in minutes yet they took hours to get there! There is something known as chain of command. Those are not matatus entering Thika road. Yet Turkish airforce reacted to Russian intrusion in minutes. I guess they don't have chain of command over there. Actually Turkey had yuge chain of command issues. They ended up in an abortive coup shortly after. remember Yuge! DJT  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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majimaji wrote:If thieves are robbing your house every year, do you stop protecting yourself because they are still attacking after 5 years. No!! you protect yourself even if it takes a life-time...there is a cost for freedom. And you need to shoot their sons before they take up arms and attack you also. If thieves are robbing your house then you protect your house with barbed wire fences, security alarms, armed guards, CCTV cameras, electric fences etc. You don't go to the gangs den and stay there indefinitely without an exit strategy.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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majimaji wrote:Alba wrote:Caveman wrote:I have never understood people who lament that we are losing a lot of soldiers in Somalia and that they should pull out and guards our boarders.It is not possible to guard our porous boarders. It is the best decision to have our soldiers there and keep those terrorists in check. If they are left, they will bring the war to our doorstep. These terrorists are very evil people. Given the chance (by withdrawing our soldiers), they will attack us in our shopping malls, they will attack our children in schools, they will attack us on our cities streets and our homes. Since, if they are left alone, they will breed and acquire more and sophisticated weapons.
There is NOTHING like: IF WE LEAVE THEM ALONE, THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE. Operation Linda nchi started in 2011. Five years later it has not accomplished anything and I am sure 5 years from now we will not in the same spot. And all those things you mentioned above have already happened since Linda nchi started and were not happening prior to 2011. Finally, KDF top brass lacks the discipline and knowledge to execute this operation. They are still making the same errors over and over. again. Mostly they are interested on shady deals. Decades of promotion based on tribal affiliation has taken its toll on the military. Your argument might make sense if we had a capable military. I am afraid we do not. Lets put aside our patriotic goggles and face the truth. This is the same KDF that shot and killed a GSU commander and completely botched the westgate mission then proceeded to loot. This is the same KDF that made glaring errors at El Adde and appears to be repeating the same mistakes now. They still do not set up camps in defendable positions, they have not fortified against VBIEDS, intelligence use and gathering appears lax. ................ And how is it possible that KDF had advance knowledge of the attack yet did not re-inforce the camp? And this camp was near the border yet aerial re-inforcements came 2 hours after the attack had started. And you have faith that KDF will pacify Somalia? Even America could not pacify Afghanistan or Iraq and . If thieves are robbing your house every year, do you stop protecting yourself because they are still attacking after 5 years. No!! you protect yourself even if it takes a life-time...there is a cost for freedom. And you need to shoot their sons before they take up arms and attack you also. Why shoot the sons when you can castrate the thief? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/15/2009 Posts: 371
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Alba wrote:Caveman wrote:I have never understood people who lament that we are losing a lot of soldiers in Somalia and that they should pull out and guards our boarders.It is not possible to guard our porous boarders. It is the best decision to have our soldiers there and keep those terrorists in check. If they are left, they will bring the war to our doorstep. These terrorists are very evil people. Given the chance (by withdrawing our soldiers), they will attack us in our shopping malls, they will attack our children in schools, they will attack us on our cities streets and our homes. Since, if they are left alone, they will breed and acquire more and sophisticated weapons.
There is NOTHING like: IF WE LEAVE THEM ALONE, THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE. Operation Linda nchi started in 2011. Five years later it has not accomplished anything and I am sure 5 years from now we will not in the same spot. And all those things you mentioned above have already happened since Linda nchi started and were not happening prior to 2011. Finally, KDF top brass lacks the discipline and knowledge to execute this operation. They are still making the same errors over and over. again. Mostly they are interested on shady deals. Decades of promotion based on tribal affiliation has taken its toll on the military. Your argument might make sense if we had a capable military. I am afraid we do not. Lets put aside our patriotic goggles and face the truth. This is the same KDF that shot and killed a GSU commander and completely botched the westgate mission then proceeded to loot. This is the same KDF that made glaring errors at El Adde and appears to be repeating the same mistakes now. They still do not set up camps in defendable positions, they have not fortified against VBIEDS, intelligence use and gathering appears lax. ................ And how is it possible that KDF had advance knowledge of the attack yet did not re-inforce the camp? And this camp was near the border yet aerial re-inforcements came 2 hours after the attack had started. And you have faith that KDF will pacify Somalia? Even America could not pacify Afghanistan or Iraq and . What is your proposal then? Withdraw the 'incapable' KDF and resign to fate, or ask Alshabaab to have mercy on us? You believe that since America was defeated in Afghan and Igaq it goes without saying that our KDF will be beaten badly? In your own opinion, do you think KDF has degraded the terrorists' capacity to attack us on our soil or not?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Caveman wrote:
What is your proposal then? Withdraw the 'incapable' KDF and resign to fate, or ask Alshabaab to have mercy on us?
Yes KDF are incapable of pacifying Somalia. The country is too big and Al Shabab live among the population which makes it difficult to attack them. Israel can pacify gaza because gaza is a small perhaps even smaller than kibera My proposal is to withdraw the troops, bring them back home have them focus on defending the homeland like Mandera and invest in border surveillance. Also we need to change the KDF culture. Too many tribally connected incompetent people in charge. Quote:You believe that since America was defeated in Afghan and Igaq it goes without saying that our KDF will be beaten badly? Yes. if America with its discipline, combat experience, intelligence agencies and over 100,000 troops could not defeat the Taliban then what makes you think that KDF with their lack of discipline, low morale and poor equipment can pacify somalia? The Russians fought the Mujahedeen for 8 years, indiscriminately bombing everything in sight and could not defeat them Quote:
In your own opinion, do you think KDF has degraded the terrorists' capacity to attack us on our soil or not?
No because since Linda nchi started in 2011, Al Shabaab attacks against Kenya have actually increased not decreased
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Has anyone in govt spoken or made any statements about this attack? Shocking!!! "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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