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Anti_Burglar		#201 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 12:37:17 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024		alma1 wrote: Separating chaff from the wheat ... An initial casual comparison between Alma's graphic and the real-deal CBA reveals interesting details. The graphic conceals - deliberately or not - that many of easy-on-the eye points are one, two, three, four or even more steps removed from the direct results of implementing the CBA. A concert of actions from myriad entities - not only from the culprit MoH - will be needed to realise such these points. So for now I think we can safely discard this graphic and the sensational confusion of issues it comes with. Aye, off to the bin with it! The CBA is interesting and reasonable and deserves closer acquaintance with.
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Anti_Burglar		#202 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 12:50:42 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024		The CBA has measures to be taken to create an enabling environment of work for our doctors. 1. Work hours 2. public holidays 3. doctors room 4. call room 5. medical equipment 6. support staff 7. safety and health 8. transport and security 9. staff housing 10. understaffing All these to me are reasonable and required.
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murchr		#203 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 7:05:40 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980		Anti_Burglar wrote: The CBA has measures to be taken to create an enabling environment of work for our doctors. 1. Work hours 2. public holidays What are the provisions of this? 3. doctors room 4. call room 5. medical equipment 6. support staff 7. safety and health 8. transport and security 9. staff housing 10. understaffing All these to me are reasonable and required. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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murchr		#204 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 7:08:24 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980		alma1 wrote: Chambua kama karanga. 1. Who are healthcare workers? 2. Shorter waiting times - IF these docs were actually working instead of hanging the coats and running around these lines would never be there in the first place. 3. Specialists have to pass in their respective fields, those in place can consult..Its not magic and they are not manufactured "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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alma1		#205 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 9:02:16 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo		Murchr it's always a pleasure to discuss with you matters of national importance. But unfortunately on this one you are trying to put 3 horses behind a cart.. The Jubilee gov't in their wisdom signed this thing...I know you are ready to tear it apart but that can't wash...The Jubilee gov't is blessed with tecnocrats who said "it is good".. If it was so good in 2003 and the economy under Jubilee has grown at tremendous levels, gosh we even have a railway, then what's stopping them from doing as they promised. It's not laptops we are talking about here...It's people's lives. We may have forgotten about 5 stadiums and laptops lakini hii ni ngumu sana... With all the lack of education I have, I have to say that I know Jubilee are very clever people. So what they sign is good for the country. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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murchr		#206 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 9:11:58 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980		alma1 wrote: Murchr it's always a pleasure to discuss with you matters of national importance. But unfortunately on this one you are trying to put 3 horses behind a cart.. The Jubilee gov't in their wisdom signed this thing...I know you are ready to tear it apart but that can't wash...The Jubilee gov't is blessed with tecnocrats who said "it is good".. If it was so good in 2003 and the economy under Jubilee has grown at tremendous levels, gosh we even have a railway, then what's stopping them from doing as they promised. It's not laptops we are talking about here...It's people's lives. We may have forgotten about 5 stadiums and laptops lakini hii ni ngumu sana... With all the lack of education I have, I have to say that I know Jubilee are very clever people. So what they sign is good for the country. Jubilee came to power in 2013. And Only fools dont change their minds "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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alma1		#207 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 9:20:32 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo		murchr wrote: alma1 wrote: Murchr it's always a pleasure to discuss with you matters of national importance. But unfortunately on this one you are trying to put 3 horses behind a cart.. The Jubilee gov't in their wisdom signed this thing...I know you are ready to tear it apart but that can't wash...The Jubilee gov't is blessed with tecnocrats who said "it is good".. If it was so good in 2003 and the economy under Jubilee has grown at tremendous levels, gosh we even have a railway, then what's stopping them from doing as they promised. It's not laptops we are talking about here...It's people's lives. We may have forgotten about 5 stadiums and laptops lakini hii ni ngumu sana... With all the lack of education I have, I have to say that I know Jubilee are very clever people. So what they sign is good for the country. Jubilee came to power in 2013. And Only fools dont change their minds Why what happened? They mishandled the Kibaki money? Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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murchr		#208 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 9:40:27 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980		alma1 wrote: murchr wrote: alma1 wrote: Murchr it's always a pleasure to discuss with you matters of national importance. But unfortunately on this one you are trying to put 3 horses behind a cart.. The Jubilee gov't in their wisdom signed this thing...I know you are ready to tear it apart but that can't wash...The Jubilee gov't is blessed with tecnocrats who said "it is good".. If it was so good in 2003 and the economy under Jubilee has grown at tremendous levels, gosh we even have a railway, then what's stopping them from doing as they promised. It's not laptops we are talking about here...It's people's lives. We may have forgotten about 5 stadiums and laptops lakini hii ni ngumu sana... With all the lack of education I have, I have to say that I know Jubilee are very clever people. So what they sign is good for the country. Jubilee came to power in 2013. And Only fools dont change their minds Why what happened? They mishandled the Kibaki money? There's nothing special about doctors that they should be treated different than the other govt employees. They can all resign and open their clinics "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Anti_Burglar		#209 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 10:57:12 AM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024		murchr wrote: Anti_Burglar wrote: The CBA has measures to be taken to create an enabling environment of work for our doctors. 1. Work hours 2. public holidays What are the provisions of this? 3. doctors room 4. call room 5. medical equipment 6. support staff 7. safety and health 8. transport and security 9. staff housing 10. understaffing All these to me are reasonable and required. Hello Murchr, We are removing the chaff slowly but surely. Soon they will be gone kabisa, totally. That point says they will be granted paid days off equivalent to the number of holiday days worked. Article 1 is the terms of the agreement Article 2 is the union rights Article 3 is the doctors rights i.e. job group, promotions, resignations, transfers, etc Article 4 is the remuneration Article 5 is the employment conditions Article 6 is leave days Article 7 is benefits e.g. insurance, mortgage etc Article 8 is grievance and arbitration Article 9 is disciplinary procedure The CBA states the parties did not reach an agreement in Article 3 - 1. Doctors job groups 2. 400 residency positions for self sponsored registrars providing services in govt institutions during the course of their training and 3. the entry grade for interns These could be the issues in contention, I suspect. If they are, using our brains we can imagine how can a party implement what he signed that he did not reach an agreement on. Wazua resident lawyers can chip in here over this point. Why has since then an agreement not been reached? But I agree with the gist of the CBA and apart from the above mentioned grey areas it is good to go without further delay.
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quicksand		#210 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 9:53:11 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi		murchr wrote: alma1 wrote: murchr wrote: alma1 wrote: Murchr it's always a pleasure to discuss with you matters of national importance. But unfortunately on this one you are trying to put 3 horses behind a cart.. The Jubilee gov't in their wisdom signed this thing...I know you are ready to tear it apart but that can't wash...The Jubilee gov't is blessed with tecnocrats who said "it is good".. If it was so good in 2003 and the economy under Jubilee has grown at tremendous levels, gosh we even have a railway, then what's stopping them from doing as they promised. It's not laptops we are talking about here...It's people's lives. We may have forgotten about 5 stadiums and laptops lakini hii ni ngumu sana... With all the lack of education I have, I have to say that I know Jubilee are very clever people. So what they sign is good for the country. Jubilee came to power in 2013. And Only fools dont change their minds Why what happened? They mishandled the Kibaki money? There's nothing special about doctors that they should be treated different than the other govt employees. They can all resign and open their clinics Spoken with the hubris and typical arrogance of a man who is probably covered by their employer and therefore has access to private medical care. If you didn't have two coins to rub together and had to rely on public healthcare, you would filter your pronouncements through your brain first before blurting them out.
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