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Safcom,Total,EABL et al
slykat
#1 Posted : Thursday, May 21, 2009 3:48:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 359
may I add Total to that list...?

Beware when buying stocks in companies controlled and managed by a European shareholder. For they always find clever ways of repatriating profits first to the european shareholder before considering you. This is normally done through; price transfers,non-competetive fees for technical support,consultancy fees,charges for licences,single sourced loans (from europen shareholder) paid in hard currencies,expensive training etc.

Eg,M-Pesa. Safcom does not make a cent from it; Vodafone does. They found a clever way of leasing it from Vodafone. If u ask me,I wud tell u that u can easily develop a money-tranfer prooduct without buying a licence,others have - this is an old repatriation trick.

Although they will be making lots of money,they must honour those commitments first b4 paying any dividends - EABL will get there soon too,if diageo starts sneaking in euro-managers.



When buying shares,ask yourself,would you buy the whole company?
xxxxx
#2 Posted : Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:24:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 503
I for one would also prefer to avoid such companies but unfortunately for us in Kenya,TZ and UG,a significant percentage of excellent companies are majority owned by non - locals. So to use ownership as a sieve would kind of rule us out of investing more or less.


beware the irrational exuberance on the NSE
slykat
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:34:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 359
@triple x

Not all foreign companies engage in those tricks but British,French and German controlled and managed companies are notorious,still not all. I once worked for a German company in Kenya and there was so much price transfer going on to avoid tax,the Kenyan branch rarely made profits on paper. Thats when I realized owning shares in such ltd can be a rip-off.

When buying shares,ask yourself,would you buy the whole company?
Hi-Lo
#4 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 5:31:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/5/2007
Posts: 91
I noticed that too...when I was a shareholder at SCB...they gave themselves some large perpetual pref shares at 6%pa instead of say a rights issue...BBK recently did so too...and most of the others as well as GK...consistent long term cap gain is rare...you just get in/out on volatility...

Playing the stock market without insider info...is like buying a cow in the moonlight.
mukiha
#5 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 5:55:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@slykat; that doesn't leave us with very much choice,does it?

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
jammo
#6 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 6:04:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 345
One thing workin for safcom... Zain is pathetic!! Modem failing..inaccessibility to certain websites..downloadin is a nightmare!..plus tariff charges to other networks have been altered upward and they hav no courtesy to atleast inform or warn subscribers! If it was campus i'd vote 'BURN IT DOWN!!' Orange...here i come!

DISCLAIMER: This is the opinion of one Jammo,CFA,CPA,Opinionated and Loud,based in nairobi. Whilst care has been taken in compiling the data to be as most factual n logical,he doesn't accept any responsibility of accuracy or completeness of info contained herein..neither does he purport to be a genius!
VituVingiSana
#7 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 8:53:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,098
Location: Nairobi
The 'foreign' firms have given minority shareholders the BEST returns over the past 10 years vs 'local' firms.

Bamburi,EABL,BBK (I wish someone would post bonus+split adjusted prices here).

Even KQ (with the recent price drop) became profitable AFTER KLM was given managerial control.

Total has for years been a consistent dividend payer. And Kenol is owned by biwott lakini run by Israelis. The CEO (among many senior managers) is Israeli. The CFO for the past 7 years has always been a 'foreigner'.

Some local firms have done well (my hats off to them) but these are recent entrants including Access & ScanGroup. Others have had roller-coasters including ARM.

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#8 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 8:57:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,098
Location: Nairobi
Let us start with ALL merali firms... pieces of shit... firestone/sameer,sasini & eveready. Then move to baumann,marshalls & kenya orchards.

I wish I had bought more more BBK 10 years ago. The old wazees who have NEVER sold BBK & SCBK since the IPOs are laughing their asses off because their money has increased 10x or more.

And KCB is another lousy performer over the past 10 years (compared to BBK).

I do trust the Aga Khan firms (if you consider them local). TPSEA,Jubilee,DTBK.

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#9 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 8:59:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,098
Location: Nairobi
Would you say these are local or foreign?

If foreign,then I trust them far more than many local firms like olympia

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#10 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 9:03:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,098
Location: Nairobi
Bwana,tafadhali stop payukaring. SCBK took the pref shares AFTER the idiots at CBK & Brokers refused to allow BBK launch a Bond. So SCBK went for a pref share issue. And at the time,the 6% looked great since interest rates were much higher for CAPITAL injections.


Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
young
#11 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 9:11:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
I fully agree with you VituVingiSana.


AFRICAN INVESTOR
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
Chaka
#12 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 9:49:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
@Vitu,

Merali is now busy putting up the 'sameer business park'After this may be he can start making some cash ........as a landlord !
jammo
#13 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 11:56:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 345
...on EABL.... Down ksh1.00...turnover of sh160mil.....so far.. No idea why.. Sources?

DISCLAIMER: This is the opinion of one Jammo,CFA,CPA,Opinionated and Loud,based in nairobi. Whilst care has been taken in compiling the data to be as most factual n logical,he doesn't accept any responsibility of accuracy or completeness of info contained herein..neither does he purport to be a genius!
slykat
#14 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 1:00:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 359
weeee,msinimeze. I did NOT say stay away from,I said rather,beware - as in tafuta hizo tricks kwa financial reports (safcom has plenty of them tricks,so no worthy dividends for another 5yrs)!

When buying shares,ask yourself,would you buy the whole company?
simonkabz
#15 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 12:51:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
In that case,lets stick with ekuete!! Ama?

Everyone for himself but mtibe for us all
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
pm
#16 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 7:47:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 60
@slycat,


Beware when buying stocks in companies controlled and managed by a European shareholder. For they always find clever ways of repatriating profits first to the european shareholder before considering you. This is normally done through; price transfers,non-competetive fees for technical support,consultancy fees,charges for licences,single sourced loans (from europen shareholder) paid in hard currencies,expensive training etc.Eg,M-Pesa. Safcom does not make a cent from it; Vodafone does. They found a clever way of leasing it from Vodafone. If u ask me,I wud tell u that u can easily develop a money-tranfer prooduct without buying a licence,others have - this is an old repatriation trick.

My take with SafCom is that they are making money like a bandit,yet,it never get reflected in the SafCom shares ... go figure!

Excellent observation slycat

My biggest worry regarding KenGen IPO was the $560M proposed loan to increase power capacity,this here would have been the straw to suck KenGen dry ... and therefore,they reasons for staying away from it ...

Take a company like George Williumson,from its humble beginnings in East Africa,namely Tanzania,it became an international conglomerate,spread across Europe,Asia ... it currently holds enormous farms in Kenya growing tea with just a railroad from the factories exporting tremedous amount of products,mostly tea (btw Kapchorua Tea is a wholly owned subsidiary of Williamson Tea Kenya) ... once they fill the rail containers with tea chests,and pays workers slave wages ... you'll surely never see those profits as the products are sold overseas,and their profits will never be reflected in share prices,these outfits are just a conduit...

Again excellent point @slycat.
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