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Warfare on the "cheap"
Yowel
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:08:12 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 10/14/2016
Posts: 25
Location: Nairobi
MatataMingi wrote:
Nothing wrong with getting this aircraft. It is suitable for the war in NFD and Somalia.
However, I am not sure of the price we are paying.
We need a breakdown.


I concur.

The Air Tractor is a light aircraft, although used for agriculture, there are military versions used by the US Army.

Its used for light engagements which is what is in Somalia. Surely you dont need a Mig or a F22 - Raptor to fight the shabaab with rocket propelled grenades max range of 500m.
Intelligentsia
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:20:05 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
aemathenge wrote:
[quote=Intelligentsia]A good purchase to supplement CAS during COIN Ops in ur eastern theater.

http://www.airforce-tech...-light-attack-aircraft/[/quote]
@Intel, in English please Kind Sir, if you may.


Sorry for this @ Mahegoat, here we go:

CAS - Close Air Support
Helping ground troops with planes during operations

COIN Ops- Counter-Insurgency Operations
Read anti-guerilla/rebel warfare.

Most Kenyans are fixated at the fact that it was originally an agricultural plane, but forget or ignore to read further that because of its versatility and suitability in all its theaters of operations (S.America esp) the manufacturers then modified it to get a military version.

When you consider the sophisticated electronic warfare avionics suite and PRECISION guided weaponry such as Hellfire missiles it has then you begin to understand that the little mother*ucker packs quite a punch.

Meaning if this plane was hovering at GPO nBI it can launch a precision-guided Hellfire missile at @Impunity's jalopy basking in the sunshine at Belle Vue hapo South C and destroy it.

Alternatively, if it doesn't have missiles then it can 'paint' or illuminate @Impunity's jalopy with an invisible laser beam that another air tractor, jet,chopper, armed drone or such platform hovering at Kenyatta market can 'see' and launch a guided missile at the same jalopy and destroy it in seconds. And they all get to see it on live video feeds. You shoot missiles at the little thing but it has countermeasures such as chaffs to confuse enemy missile. And it can fly usiku na mchana, kwa mvua na kwa jua

If our KDF had this then they the tide of battle would have been much different at El Adde last Jan. It can withstand small arms fire and old soviet guns such as the Zpu-4 Anti-aircraft guns that Al Kefafu has.

Weapon costing includes the supporting infrastructure - personnel, tarining, weapons,etc

See it here with UAE:

https://youtu.be/uahgtOUrAaY
aemathenge
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:48:18 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
@Intel, have I ever told you I hate you when you are this good?
Jump-steady
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:42:22 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,098
aemathenge wrote:
@Intel, have I ever told you I hate you when you are this good?



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Jump-steady
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:46:59 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,098
Intelligentsia wrote:
[quote=aemathenge][quote=Intelligentsia]A good purchase to supplement CAS during COIN Ops in ur eastern theater.

http://www.airforce-tech...-light-attack-aircraft/[/quote]
@Intel, in English please Kind Sir, if you may.


Sorry for this @ Mahegoat, here we go:

CAS - Close Air Support
Helping ground troops with planes during operations

COIN Ops- Counter-Insurgency Operations
Read anti-guerilla/rebel warfare.

Most Kenyans are fixated at the fact that it was originally an agricultural plane, but forget or ignore to read further that because of its versatility and suitability in all its theaters of operations (S.America esp) the manufacturers then modified it to get a military version.

When you consider the sophisticated electronic warfare avionics suite and PRECISION guided weaponry such as Hellfire missiles it has then you begin to understand that the little mother*ucker packs quite a punch.

Meaning if this plane was hovering at GPO nBI it can launch a precision-guided Hellfire missile at @Impunity's jalopy basking in the sunshine at Belle Vue hapo South C and destroy it.

Alternatively, if it doesn't have missiles then it can 'paint' or illuminate @Impunity's jalopy with an invisible laser beam that another air tractor, jet,chopper, armed drone or such platform hovering at Kenyatta market can 'see' and launch a guided missile at the same jalopy and destroy it in seconds. And they all get to see it on live video feeds. You shoot missiles at the little thing but it has countermeasures such as chaffs to confuse enemy missile. And it can fly usiku na mchana, kwa mvua na kwa jua

If our KDF had this then they the tide of battle would have been much different at El Adde last Jan. It can withstand small arms fire and old soviet guns such as the Zpu-4 Anti-aircraft guns that Al Kefafu has.

Weapon costing includes the supporting infrastructure - personnel, tarining, weapons,etc

See it here with UAE:

https://youtu.be/uahgtOUrAaY[/quote]


Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall

Looks can be deceiving. I would swear that the tiny aircraft can be brought down by hand to air projectiles from angry AFC and Gor Mahia fanssmile
Obi 1 Kanobi
#16 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:16:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
This is a good practical acquisition. The bulk of the funds I hope were spent on other arms coz the planes on their own can't cost more than Usd 10M for the entire lot even after military upgrades.

They say the plane can stay in the air for upto 9 hours!!!

"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Impunity
#17 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 6:22:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,333
Location: Masada
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
This is a good practical acquisition. The bulk of the funds I hope were spent on other arms coz the planes on their own can't cost more than Usd 10M for the entire lot even after military upgrades.

They say the plane can stay in the air for upto 9 hours!!!



Where will that fuel be stored?
The thing doesn't even have the aerial re-fuel mechanism installed!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Njung'e
#18 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 6:33:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Impunity wrote:
[quote=Obi 1 Kanobi]

Where will that fuel be stored?
The thing doesn't even have the aerial re-fuel mechanism installed!


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly .....Kweli kuna watu ng'ombesmile
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#19 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:13:53 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Impunity wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
This is a good practical acquisition. The bulk of the funds I hope were spent on other arms coz the planes on their own can't cost more than Usd 10M for the entire lot even after military upgrades.

They say the plane can stay in the air for upto 9 hours!!!



Where will that fuel be stored?
The thing doesn't even have the aerial re-fuel mechanism installed!


It looks like a glider, I may not be an aeronautical engineer but my bet is it should glide at almost minimal fuel consumption.

Otherwise since its primary use was for firefighting or crop dusting, it can carry the fuel where it carried water or herbicides/pesticides.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
shadowinvestor
#20 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:43:53 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 139
I am not a procurement guy but our single biggest military purchase are some old crop duster planes, While I have no reservation to their effectiveness and modus operandi, they look nifty enough for low bombing engagement and as recent wars have shown, airpower is 80% of a war.
My issues lie in cost/benefit analysis,
Lets analyse the deal-
Planes-12+2 costs, say 80 million USD
Arms-not sure, hope its the bulk of the purchase but another-80million USD, there is still next year to stockpile and tender
Training and support-10 Million USD
hapa ni 170,
Variables might lie in the arms or if the planes might need extra retrofitting like night vision, expanded radar...

Why I would prefer better fighter jets to add to our arsenal is that neighbour to the North called Ethiopia who can literally obliterate us na ndege tu, we need to talk to Russia for some Mig-27 or thereabouts, Cost kedo 15 million USD, order for 20, delivered over 5 years.
Russian Jets are cheap to run, literally can be operate with minimal repairs.





sparkly wrote:
chemirocha wrote:
shadowinvestor wrote:
http://www.economist.com/node/17079443
http://www.nation.co.ke/...84928-n4fmyz/index.html


Air Tractor AT- 802L at 5million USD each, we have been haved by tenderpreneurs

Kenya buying 12 of this, we could have done kedo 40 and change



From the cow's mouth, linked here

Quote:
The Government of Kenya has requested a possible sale of up to twelve (12) Air Tractor AT- 802L and two (2) AT-504 trainer aircraft, weapons package, technical support and program management.


These items also cost money on top of the unit price of the aircraft.


The statement "when you go looking for something, you will find it" comes to mind.

Obviously @shadow came across the article on Nation, formed an hypothesis that tenderprenuers are involved, then went looking for the evidence.

Google landed him on the Economist but common comprehension deserted him at his hour of need Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

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