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Mass Voter Registration
sheri
#121 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 9:45:55 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/11/2007
Posts: 694
PeterReborn wrote:
masukuma wrote:
grolut wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

@masukuma, your opinion on the new developments. What's the matter with shared IDs ? How did the database accept shared IDs ?

And why is the IEBC such a hopeless communicator ? It's an election year and we know how dicey things can get.

Why would KPMG dirty its hands in the voter register issues ? Now the only thing some folks are seeing is the ( ethnic) name of the CEO.

What's the best way to do a clean-up to everyone's satisfaction ?


I saw a picture of the system, it seems that IEBC have not used the ID number as the primary key in the database, this would reject duplicates.

I suspect IEBC anticipated errors in data capture and avoided using it as the primary key in case it locked
voters out due to the errors. What they should have done is integrate it with the national register so that IEBC clerks and voters can search in real-time and confirm the ID number matches the particulars of the one registering.

let me ask a basic question... anyone can answer!!

WHO TOLD YOU THE ID NUMBER IS UNIQUE?

anyone is free to answer!!

secondly,
IF THE ID NUMBER UNIQUELY IDENTIFIES YOU - WHY GO BUY A 9 BILLION SHILLING SYSTEM TO CAPTURE BIOMETRICS?
Access could have handled it!!

#MythBusting!!

Why is the 9B system failing to detect the dublication of the ID Numbers?
Why not use a centralised database which checks if the ID number has been registered?
How difficult is it to write a code that ensure the ID number is only used once?If you try to reenter gives an error.
Why does immigration department issue IDs with similar numbers?


@PeterReborn the IEBC system is the one which is detecting the duplication of ID no's. The duplication is from what we can call the source of the data, which in this case should be the National Registration Bureau. NRB should work with IEBC to sort the issue of duplication. You don't need to write another code since the system is bought fully programmed and ready for installation. The IEBC only need to customize the system according to their perceived user needs. Remember any system is as good as it user. Secondly duplication should not occur during data entry if the right specifications of variables used is done properly during customization. The vendor of the system should be available for system support in any case of any problem.
My two cent
Njung'e
#122 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:17:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Voter registration via phones coming very soon.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
masukuma
#123 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:37:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
checking duplicates is kids stuff... mna sahau where the problem is coz you are focusing on the technology! ID Numbers are NOT UNIQUE!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
PeterReborn
#124 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:45:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,063
masukuma wrote:
checking duplicates is kids stuff... mna sahau where the problem is coz you are focusing on the technology! ID Numbers are NOT UNIQUE!

Why not make the ID numbers unique like the social security numbers.How difficult can that be?
Consistency is better than intensity
Ngalaka
#125 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:02:59 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
PeterReborn wrote:
masukuma wrote:
checking duplicates is kids stuff... mna sahau where the problem is coz you are focusing on the technology! ID Numbers are NOT UNIQUE!

Why not make the ID numbers unique like the social security numbers.How difficult can that be?

That is a question for Uhuru, his CS for interior - NRB and the caboodle
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
aemathenge
#126 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:09:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
PeterReborn wrote:
masukuma wrote:
checking duplicates is kids stuff... mna sahau where the problem is coz you are focusing on the technology! ID Numbers are NOT UNIQUE!

Why not make the ID numbers unique like the social security numbers.How difficult can that be?

Because the National Registration Bureau has refused and or is unable to and or is too incompetent and or too corrupt to do so.

And because Uhuru, Raila, Wanjiku, mpigs, senators, governors, you and me do not censure the National Registration Bureau to work efficiently as we demand of IErectoralBC.
masukuma
#127 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:37:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
PeterReborn wrote:
masukuma wrote:
checking duplicates is kids stuff... mna sahau where the problem is coz you are focusing on the technology! ID Numbers are NOT UNIQUE!

Why not make the ID numbers unique like the social security numbers.How difficult can that be?

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly eh! uliza NRB!

All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#128 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:41:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
the only way out is a 3rd generation ID card system that is centralized. apparently The NRB, has never run a centralised db. It has been a MANUAL system for many years with LOTS of errors!!

ID Numbers are 'yours' and other myths... like signature has to be a difficult to 'duplicate/forge' squiggle... your Passport is 'YOURS', your dad was always no.1, your land is YOURS!! myths galore!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#129 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:47:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
uko wapi kwa hii curve?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
sheri
#130 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:52:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/11/2007
Posts: 694
masukuma wrote:
checking duplicates is kids stuff... mna sahau where the problem is coz you are focusing on the technology! ID Numbers are NOT UNIQUE!

@ Masukuma I think they should be but in our case they are not. And because they are not unique, they cannot be used as a unique identifier by the IEBC during election. There is a possibility the IEBC was aware of this and that why biometric identification through finger prints and facial recognition is necessary.

Technology is just an enabler. It Is a means to an end, not an end in itself


aemathenge
#131 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:04:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
sheri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
ID Numbers are NOT UNIQUE!

@ Masukuma I think they should be

but in our case they are not.

And because they are not unique, they cannot be used as a unique identifier by the IEBC during election.

There is a possibility the IEBC was aware of this and that why biometric identification through finger prints and facial recognition is necessary.

Technology is just an enabler.

It Is a means to an end, not an end in itself



Hear, hear.
masukuma
#132 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:17:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
sheri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
checking duplicates is kids stuff... mna sahau where the problem is coz you are focusing on the technology! ID Numbers are NOT UNIQUE!

@ Masukuma I think they should be but in our case they are not. And because they are not unique, they cannot be used as a unique identifier by the IEBC during election. There is a possibility the IEBC was aware of this and that why biometric identification through finger prints and facial recognition is necessary.

Technology is just an enabler. It Is a means to an end, not an end in itself



anyone with large enough a dataset knows... ECK knew, IIEC knew, IEBC knew in 2012. it's not a new thing at all!! in 2012!! we had a thread here on the same matter

Lolest! wrote:
@makales, 2 people with the same ID No? That is scary!!


Money Whisperer wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
@makales, 2 people with the same ID No? That is scary!!

yap and the system rejects you.



King G wrote:
But IEBC should come out clean and tell us what happens next if the duplication of ID thing happens bacuase that is not the problem of the potential voter.

then again the idea of same id nos looks far fetched!


Lolest! wrote:
Money Whisperer wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
@makales, 2 people with the same ID No? That is scary!!

yap and the system rejects you.

There is more to be scared about than being denied the right to vote. Like the holder of a similar no. to mine committing a serious crime and Im arrested for it!


We all 'think' it's supposed to be...UNIQUE.. but my question is WHY DO WE THINK THIS WAY? @mahegoat... this is the same reasoning we have about voter registration acknowledgement slips and their 'inherent' meaning. We sit.. lie to each other that something is supposed to work in a certain way and has a certain meaning. we start acting as we have discussed and lied to ourselves and later we get a rude shock!
The only person who should tell you that the ID Number is UNIQUE is the person who issues it... not your mom..not your brother. not your pastor <-- even if all of these agree... talk to the person who issues the card uambiwe!!

Sio nyinyi peke yenu... tulikuwa mahali pia they had a similar problem - Audit reveals 2016 voters register has over 130,000 double voters, several anomalies
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
aemathenge
#133 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:33:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
aawwooiii

Here we go again.
masukuma
#134 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:53:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
aawwooiii

Here we go again.

yes... just because you and others decide that something is 'real' does not make it real!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
aemathenge
#135 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:55:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
..... how good are the bio-whatever in Kenia?

Can they be fooled by twins?

My fishing expedition has produced nothing yet.

Other than this:

Link
masukuma
#136 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 4:32:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
..... how good are the bio-whatever in Kenia?

Can they be fooled by twins?

My fishing expedition has produced nothing yet.

Other than this:

Link

Comps people know of GUIDs or UUIDs (globally Unique Identifiers, Universally Unique Identifiers) and most comps people would consider them UNIQUE... i mean it's in the name right? there should be no collision! but nope.. the number of random UUIDs which need to be generated in order to have a 50% probability of at least one collision is 2.71 quintillion!
they say the more you know - the more uncertain you become that a pure solution exists for a certain problem set. it means that the more certain of something you are - the more the probability that you know very little! Vendors of Biometric solutions will not sell you a solution that is rubber-stamped as being 100% error free. They are not stupid. they work towards reducing the error rates! So the perfection of a system asymptotically nears 100% but never gets there! Even dettol tries to tell you 99.9% of all KNOWN germs. There are all these qualifiers that people with knowledge use all over the place. people without knowledge are the ones that have no exceptions or qualifiers coz they have very limited knowledge.... so back to my point! for twins... the system does not care about how your faces look like the pattern of your minutiae is everything... heck you may have similar minutiae with someone who is not on your continent! they are random patterns that are FAIRLY UNIQUE!
is it POSSIBLE that twins will submit fingerprints that when extracted give the exact same minutiae - yes! is it PROBABLE - NO!! Possibility and Probability are not the same thing.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#137 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 4:38:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
and let's assume that possibility regardless of how remote occurs.. what are the chances of it being widespread (legitimately out of random luck) for it to change the "will of the people"?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
sheri
#138 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 4:58:29 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/11/2007
Posts: 694
aemathenge wrote:
..... how good are the bio-whatever in Kenia?

Can they be fooled by twins?

My fishing expedition has produced nothing yet.

Other than this:

Link

@aemathenge no system is error free/proof. But there is always a margin of error either + or - in efficeincy
Njung'e
#139 Posted : Tuesday, February 14, 2017 5:09:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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