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Warfare on the "cheap"
Rank: Member Joined: 1/13/2012 Posts: 139
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http://www.economist.com/node/17079443
http://www.nation.co.ke/...84928-n4fmyz/index.html
Air Tractor AT- 802L at 5million USD each, we have been haved by tenderpreneurs Kenya buying 12 of this, we could have done kedo 40 and change
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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From the cow's mouth, linked hereQuote:The Government of Kenya has requested a possible sale of up to twelve (12) Air Tractor AT- 802L and two (2) AT-504 trainer aircraft, weapons package, technical support and program management. These items also cost money on top of the unit price of the aircraft.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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chemirocha wrote:From the cow's mouth, linked hereQuote:The Government of Kenya has requested a possible sale of up to twelve (12) Air Tractor AT- 802L and two (2) AT-504 trainer aircraft, weapons package, technical support and program management. These items also cost money on top of the unit price of the aircraft. The statement "when you go looking for something, you will find it" comes to mind. Obviously @shadow came across the article on Nation, formed an hypothesis that tenderprenuers are involved, then went looking for the evidence. Google landed him on the Economist but common comprehension deserted him at his hour of need Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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sparkly wrote:[quote=chemirocha][quote=shadowinvestor]http://www.economist.com/node/17079443 http://www.nation.co.ke/...84928-n4fmyz/index.html
The statement "when you go looking for something, you will find it" comes to mind. Obviously @shadow came across the article on Nation, formed an hypothesis that tenderprenuers are involved, then went looking for the evidence. Google landed him on the Economist but common comprehension deserted him at his hour of need  Saw it yesterday but avoided commenting. Anyway, if somebody or something abandoned me at the hour of need, i would surely review that relationship Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/1/2009 Posts: 2,436
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A good purchase to supplement CAS during COIN Ops in ur eastern theater. http://www.airforce-tech...d-light-attack-aircraft/
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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[quote=Intelligentsia]A good purchase to supplement CAS during COIN Ops in ur eastern theater. http://www.airforce-tech...-light-attack-aircraft/[/quote] @Intel, in English please Kind Sir, if you may.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Why are you arguing from a point of ignorance? This is a modern aircraft that has proven effective fighting ISIS in Syria and Libya. Another big customer is the CIA, fighting the drugs war in Colombia.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 399 Location: Where everyone knows you
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Nothing wrong with getting this aircraft. It is suitable for the war in NFD and Somalia. However, I am not sure of the price we are paying. We need a breakdown.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 10/14/2016 Posts: 25 Location: Nairobi
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sparkly wrote:chemirocha wrote:From the cow's mouth, linked hereQuote:The Government of Kenya has requested a possible sale of up to twelve (12) Air Tractor AT- 802L and two (2) AT-504 trainer aircraft, weapons package, technical support and program management. These items also cost money on top of the unit price of the aircraft. The statement "when you go looking for something, you will find it" comes to mind. Obviously @shadow came across the article on Nation, formed an hypothesis that tenderprenuers are involved, then went looking for the evidence. Google landed him on the Economist but common comprehension deserted him at his hour of need Classic data mining
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 10/14/2016 Posts: 25 Location: Nairobi
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MatataMingi wrote:Nothing wrong with getting this aircraft. It is suitable for the war in NFD and Somalia. However, I am not sure of the price we are paying. We need a breakdown. I concur. The Air Tractor is a light aircraft, although used for agriculture, there are military versions used by the US Army. Its used for light engagements which is what is in Somalia. Surely you dont need a Mig or a F22 - Raptor to fight the shabaab with rocket propelled grenades max range of 500m.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/1/2009 Posts: 2,436
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Sorry for this @ Mahegoat, here we go: CAS - Close Air Support Helping ground troops with planes during operations COIN Ops- Counter-Insurgency Operations Read anti-guerilla/rebel warfare. Most Kenyans are fixated at the fact that it was originally an agricultural plane, but forget or ignore to read further that because of its versatility and suitability in all its theaters of operations (S.America esp) the manufacturers then modified it to get a military version. When you consider the sophisticated electronic warfare avionics suite and PRECISION guided weaponry such as Hellfire missiles it has then you begin to understand that the little mother*ucker packs quite a punch. Meaning if this plane was hovering at GPO nBI it can launch a precision-guided Hellfire missile at @Impunity's jalopy basking in the sunshine at Belle Vue hapo South C and destroy it. Alternatively, if it doesn't have missiles then it can 'paint' or illuminate @Impunity's jalopy with an invisible laser beam that another air tractor, jet,chopper, armed drone or such platform hovering at Kenyatta market can 'see' and launch a guided missile at the same jalopy and destroy it in seconds. And they all get to see it on live video feeds. You shoot missiles at the little thing but it has countermeasures such as chaffs to confuse enemy missile. And it can fly usiku na mchana, kwa mvua na kwa jua If our KDF had this then they the tide of battle would have been much different at El Adde last Jan. It can withstand small arms fire and old soviet guns such as the Zpu-4 Anti-aircraft guns that Al Kefafu has. Weapon costing includes the supporting infrastructure - personnel, tarining, weapons,etc See it here with UAE: https://youtu.be/uahgtOUrAaY
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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@Intel, have I ever told you I hate you when you are this good?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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Sorry for this @ Mahegoat, here we go: CAS - Close Air Support Helping ground troops with planes during operations COIN Ops- Counter-Insurgency Operations Read anti-guerilla/rebel warfare. Most Kenyans are fixated at the fact that it was originally an agricultural plane, but forget or ignore to read further that because of its versatility and suitability in all its theaters of operations (S.America esp) the manufacturers then modified it to get a military version. When you consider the sophisticated electronic warfare avionics suite and PRECISION guided weaponry such as Hellfire missiles it has then you begin to understand that the little mother*ucker packs quite a punch. Meaning if this plane was hovering at GPO nBI it can launch a precision-guided Hellfire missile at @Impunity's jalopy basking in the sunshine at Belle Vue hapo South C and destroy it. Alternatively, if it doesn't have missiles then it can 'paint' or illuminate @Impunity's jalopy with an invisible laser beam that another air tractor, jet,chopper, armed drone or such platform hovering at Kenyatta market can 'see' and launch a guided missile at the same jalopy and destroy it in seconds. And they all get to see it on live video feeds. You shoot missiles at the little thing but it has countermeasures such as chaffs to confuse enemy missile. And it can fly usiku na mchana, kwa mvua na kwa jua If our KDF had this then they the tide of battle would have been much different at El Adde last Jan. It can withstand small arms fire and old soviet guns such as the Zpu-4 Anti-aircraft guns that Al Kefafu has. Weapon costing includes the supporting infrastructure - personnel, tarining, weapons,etc See it here with UAE: https://youtu.be/uahgtOUrAaY[/quote] Looks can be deceiving. I would swear that the tiny aircraft can be brought down by hand to air projectiles from angry AFC and Gor Mahia fans
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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This is a good practical acquisition. The bulk of the funds I hope were spent on other arms coz the planes on their own can't cost more than Usd 10M for the entire lot even after military upgrades. They say the plane can stay in the air for upto 9 hours!!! "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:This is a good practical acquisition. The bulk of the funds I hope were spent on other arms coz the planes on their own can't cost more than Usd 10M for the entire lot even after military upgrades.
They say the plane can stay in the air for upto 9 hours!!!
Where will that fuel be stored? The thing doesn't even have the aerial re-fuel mechanism installed! Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Impunity wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:This is a good practical acquisition. The bulk of the funds I hope were spent on other arms coz the planes on their own can't cost more than Usd 10M for the entire lot even after military upgrades.
They say the plane can stay in the air for upto 9 hours!!!
Where will that fuel be stored? The thing doesn't even have the aerial re-fuel mechanism installed! It looks like a glider, I may not be an aeronautical engineer but my bet is it should glide at almost minimal fuel consumption. Otherwise since its primary use was for firefighting or crop dusting, it can carry the fuel where it carried water or herbicides/pesticides. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/13/2012 Posts: 139
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I am not a procurement guy but our single biggest military purchase are some old crop duster planes, While I have no reservation to their effectiveness and modus operandi, they look nifty enough for low bombing engagement and as recent wars have shown, airpower is 80% of a war. My issues lie in cost/benefit analysis, Lets analyse the deal- Planes-12+2 costs, say 80 million USD Arms-not sure, hope its the bulk of the purchase but another-80million USD, there is still next year to stockpile and tender Training and support-10 Million USD hapa ni 170, Variables might lie in the arms or if the planes might need extra retrofitting like night vision, expanded radar... Why I would prefer better fighter jets to add to our arsenal is that neighbour to the North called Ethiopia who can literally obliterate us na ndege tu, we need to talk to Russia for some Mig-27 or thereabouts, Cost kedo 15 million USD, order for 20, delivered over 5 years. Russian Jets are cheap to run, literally can be operate with minimal repairs. sparkly wrote:chemirocha wrote:From the cow's mouth, linked hereQuote:The Government of Kenya has requested a possible sale of up to twelve (12) Air Tractor AT- 802L and two (2) AT-504 trainer aircraft, weapons package, technical support and program management. These items also cost money on top of the unit price of the aircraft. The statement "when you go looking for something, you will find it" comes to mind. Obviously @shadow came across the article on Nation, formed an hypothesis that tenderprenuers are involved, then went looking for the evidence. Google landed him on the Economist but common comprehension deserted him at his hour of need
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