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#lipakamatender
obiero
#181 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 5:19:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,213
Location: nairobi
alma1 wrote:
Anti_Burglar wrote:



I have not had the chance of reading the bloggers, but nevertheless what you have put is still not clear.

So if for instance the CBA is implemented, the kin of patients will not fundraise anymore to pay for treatment? That would be like utopia!

Or on more health care workers in public service to treat our population, that would mean the training institutions churn out more personnel over and above the many they produce each year for starters? If the CBA is implemented the number of medics graduating would rise? Or where would the 'more' medics in public service come from?

I think truth has been the casualty in this conflict.


There's no conflict as you want to put it. It's just one side that is refusing to do what they promised to do..That's not a conflict that's being a liar.

I don't know why you want to push the pay agenda but let me help you a bit.

Part of the CBA requires the gov't to facilitate hospitals with proper tools and equipment. Murchr has his own idea on how that should be implemented...But the issue is that the gov't whether they want to to call it central or county must provide proper tools and equipment.

I know that Jubilee really loves this section. After all they boast about all those cancer machines they have provided all over the world.

But as you can see from the stories above, the reality is a bit different. No blood, no meds, no gloves...I promise you there's no tissue paper in hospital and you have to go with your won..

Anti Burglar, do you think that can help the country?

Another issue....The doctors and this gov't agreed to increase the medical staff in the health care industry...Why?

Because for the doctors it means they work humane hours.

Jubilee should also love this aspect. After all they said sijui how many million jobs that were to come after the electric trains.

Think about the nurses, clinical officers, even sweepers in well equipped hospitals...The economy would boooooom!

But the reality is different. 4k doctors was the boast by the CS this morning...40 million Kenyans... don't even want to do that math.

Anti Burglar, do you think that employeeing more Kenyans is a good thing?


The CS today confessed on live TV that if they pay doctors, private hospitals would die?

mmmmhhhh so what if private hospitals died? Is it better for my cucu not to get diabetics medicine at Tumu Tumu hospital and die than the CS and his people pay 50k a night at MP Shah?




I know why this is a hot potato that even Raira is afraid to touch...

These people have killed the public health care system from the days of Moi...They have no one to blame. Raira can't blame, Uhuru, Uhuru can't blame Kibaki, Kibaki can't blame Raira..

They have been total failures and even Moi is shocked.

Now instead they shall blame 7 young men and women for deciding not to see HIV positive patients sharing the same beds with diabetics.

All they shall talk about is their salaries. For an mpig to talk about salaries is an early indicator of Alzheimers.

Terrible turn of events

KQ ABP 4.26
Anti_Burglar
#182 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:34:50 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024
alma1 wrote:
Anti_Burglar wrote:



I have not had the chance of reading the bloggers, but nevertheless what you have put is still not clear.

So if for instance the CBA is implemented, the kin of patients will not fundraise anymore to pay for treatment? That would be like utopia!

Or on more health care workers in public service to treat our population, that would mean the training institutions churn out more personnel over and above the many they produce each year for starters? If the CBA is implemented the number of medics graduating would rise? Or where would the 'more' medics in public service come from?

I think truth has been the casualty in this conflict.


There's no conflict as you want to put it. It's just one side that is refusing to do what they promised to do..That's not a conflict that's being a liar.

I don't know why you want to push the pay agenda but let me help you a bit.

Part of the CBA requires the gov't to facilitate hospitals with proper tools and equipment. Murchr has his own idea on how that should be implemented...But the issue is that the gov't whether they want to to call it central or county must provide proper tools and equipment.

I know that Jubilee really loves this section. After all they boast about all those cancer machines they have provided all over the world.

But as you can see from the stories above, the reality is a bit different. No blood, no meds, no gloves...I promise you there's no tissue paper in hospital and you have to go with your won..

Anti Burglar, do you think that can help the country?

Another issue....The doctors and this gov't agreed to increase the medical staff in the health care industry...Why?

Because for the doctors it means they work humane hours.

Jubilee should also love this aspect. After all they said sijui how many million jobs that were to come after the electric trains.

Think about the nurses, clinical officers, even sweepers in well equipped hospitals...The economy would boooooom!

But the reality is different. 4k doctors was the boast by the CS this morning...40 million Kenyans... don't even want to do that math.

Anti Burglar, do you think that employeeing more Kenyans is a good thing?


The CS today confessed on live TV that if they pay doctors, private hospitals would die?

mmmmhhhh so what if private hospitals died? Is it better for my cucu not to get diabetics medicine at Tumu Tumu hospital and die than the CS and his people pay 50k a night at MP Shah?




I know why this is a hot potato that even Raira is afraid to touch...

These people have killed the public health care system from the days of Moi...They have no one to blame. Raira can't blame, Uhuru, Uhuru can't blame Kibaki, Kibaki can't blame Raira..

They have been total failures and even Moi is shocked.

Now instead they shall blame 7 young men and women for deciding not to see HIV positive patients sharing the same beds with diabetics.

All they shall talk about is their salaries. For an mpig to talk about salaries is an early indicator of Alzheimers.




Hhhhhhmmmmmm ............
Ngalaka
#183 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 9:41:34 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Salary agitation is but just one of the demands.


I am at loss why some here want to present salary agitation as an illegitimate issue!

Doctors deserve a decent pay.

Citing incidental issues as reason why Doctors should not be out demanding for better pay is baffling.

Of course working environment, tools and other terms are equally legitimate as grounds for agitation.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Ngalaka
#184 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 9:51:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
The Court matter was however not well handled at the initial stages.

Hope now the Doctors are getting the right advice on that score.

Was the ruling appealed or can they (Doctors Union leadership) demonstrate that they tried their best to call off the strike but the larger Doctors fraternity rejected their call!

The bottom line here is - are the sentences still in force and or can the court be demonstrably convinced that the leadership is not to blame anymore.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
muganda
#185 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 10:31:42 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,907
Court suspends doctors' sentence for another 5 days.

Ngalaka wrote:
The Court matter was however not well handled at the initial stages.

Hope now the Doctors are getting the right advice on that score.

Was the ruling appealed or can they (Doctors Union leadership) demonstrate that they tried their best to call off the strike but the larger Doctors fraternity rejected their call!

The bottom line here is - are the sentences still in force and or can the court be demonstrably convinced that the leadership is not to blame anymore.

Anti_Burglar
#186 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:38:19 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024
Ngalaka wrote:
Salary agitation is but just one of the demands.


I am at loss why some here want to present salary agitation as an illegitimate issue!

Doctors deserve a decent pay.

Citing incidental issues as reason why Doctors should not be out demanding for better pay is baffling.

Of course working environment, tools and other terms are equally legitimate as grounds for agitation.



Incidental? At least two of their leading lights - by themselves - have hinted to it's significance and importance in their earlier lives. Incidental, you say? Then indeed, its baffling! It is no shame to ask for better pay and simple follow up questions can be quickly dispensed with without fuss.
Anti_Burglar
#187 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 12:16:52 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024
Does anyone have the particular CBA in question? Yaani not a summary or illustration of key points or things like that. For those who want to peruse it for themselves, it would help a great deal if it were widely circulated so Kenyans can make informed choices over it.


Going to their KMPDU Website (Documents) as the primary source avails nothing. Documents including that CBA are safely locked away and you have to log in as a member to see any apparently.

On the other side we have a Press Statement by the Ministry of Health from which we can infer what is in that CBA.

Like I said, these are easy questions that should not hinder more critical life and death issues.
alma1
#188 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 12:38:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Anti Buglar

All that you need to know is that the gov't is refusing to do what it promised to do...In fact, even your own link we have this quote


"The Ministry of Health and the KMPDU signed a CBA in June 2013 after signing a Recognition Agreement in March the same year. "

Just that one statement is enough to tell you who is lying here. The gov't has refused to register this CBA. An error captured in court.

And if you are busy arguing here against them and you have not taken the effort after 50 days to know what is in that CBA, please advise us under what legs you are standing on.

Doctors are wakas.
They deserve better pay and better working conditions.
The gov't of Jubilee signed an agreement with them.
They should pay just as quickly as they paid for Kabura's gunias.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Anti_Burglar
#189 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:13:35 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024
Ahh Alma, lol,


but I do not want to be spoon fed with information and news by media, bloggers or anyone. And I do not think I have taken a position yet who to be with or against - maybe I've been a bit critical to one side but I can yet be critical to the other side too. It is sad that my questions are being taken as being against one side hence attract the corresponding wrath. But the other side has not praised me, perhaps they don't see me as being on their side, if it is any consolation.

Truth be told I had not paid particular attention to this strike story. But it's persistence I find striking hence my desire to know more about it - the issues at stake, particularly. Yet information about the issues is scarce but ironically are all over, mara salaries, mara working conditions, you get my point?

But yule mtu wa mawakas amewasaidia? They should seek his help.
alma1
#190 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:21:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Anti_Burglar wrote:
Ahh Alma, lol,


but I do not want to be spoon fed with information and news by media, bloggers or anyone. And I do not think I have taken a position yet who to be with or against - maybe I've been a bit critical to one side but I can yet be critical to the other side too. It is sad that my questions are being taken as being against one side hence attract the corresponding wrath. But the other side has not praised me, perhaps they don't see me as being on their side, if it is any consolation.

Truth be told I had not paid particular attention to this strike story. But it's persistence I find striking hence my desire to know more about it - the issues at stake, particularly. Yet information about the issues is scarce but ironically are all over, mara salaries, mara working conditions, you get my point?

But yule mtu wa mawakas amewasaidia? They should seek his help.


When you see young men and women in Kenya stick to their principles you should be asking other questions.

Not wondering why they would do such a thing at the risk of being called criminals by a court that called them sewage in a ruling. I still can't believe a judge who claims she's an arbiter can call any negotiating party sewage. She should just resign from the case.

I know in Kenya that its hard to believe that anyone can do something good for the sake of the nation. But we do have professionals in this country.

Unlike a CS who confesses on live TV that they won't sign coz it will kill private business. we should be asking if he has a private hospital or shares in one.

Not attacking this young patriots who are surely going to be tending to you next time the corrupt policeman allows an overloaded matatu to hit your nice family car.

Hii Kenya itanionyesha mengi. Where the citizen is actively fighting against his own welfare.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

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