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Mass Voter Registration
masukuma
#101 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 11:44:56 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
Relief food bought with our tax money and some ugly b*#*h is threatening not to give the starving residents of mbeere until they first register as voters.

CC.
@Masukuma.

Inherent or otherwise (let us not go there) possession of that piece of paper is a matter of life and death for the next thirty six days or so in the "strongholds".

i am still wondering where i lost you!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Tokyo
#102 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 11:50:48 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
I still maintain voting should be a privileged to only taxpayers.
work to prosper
masukuma
#103 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 11:59:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Tokyo wrote:
I still maintain voting should be a privileged to only taxpayers.

a meritocracy of sorts - sio? been there...done that! the current model we have is the best model EVER that gives great results in the long term. if you want quick results on shaky ground - go for meritocracies, oligocracies, aristocracies e.t.c. if you want sustainable growth - you know what to do!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Liv
#104 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 1:31:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
Tokyo wrote:
I still maintain voting should be a privileged to only taxpayers.



What do you mean exactly? I thought everyone who buys products and services in Kenya pays some tax. E.g. VAT

How would you go about registering. People to vote? Should limited companies and parastatals also be allowed to vote if they pay taxes?
washiku
#105 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 1:55:06 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Swenani wrote:
Bigchick wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
Masukush,are ID numbers unique?
What does the IEBC use to uniquely identify the voter?
If I register with my ID card then try to register using my passport,would IEBC know that I am already a registered voter?


Biometrics tashika wewe

Na kama nimejipaka arimis kwa mkono?


Biometrics si mikono tu.


Okay. I hope they won't ask me to bare and sit on the BVRsmile

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Guka.You may shock the clerks with the wrinkles.



Ngai!You people stopLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Am trying to picture the barering and the wrinkles therein.😂😂


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
murchr
#106 Posted : Saturday, January 21, 2017 7:20:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
masukuma wrote:
murchr wrote:
I guess Kalooser can now see the importance of a manual backup Laughing out loudly


THE BOT (as @Swenani likes to refer to me these day) HAS REMEMBERED!! we did have this discussions here on wazua 5 years ago!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Now RAO says his number too has a companion. Manual backup tu ndio solution.

#1 Posted :


masukuma = Saturday, November 24, 2012 3:46:39 PM wrote:

Anyang Nyongo is paranoid - he things each time something goes wrong its a scheme to rig the elections. the BVR machines have been preloaded with data from the old register - that's why old voters just need to confirm their details and have new data added (biodata and biometric). if your ID number returns someone else its not that the IEBC is scheming to disenfranchise you but rather that there are indeed individuals that have been allocated the same ID number and thus if both had registered last time there is no guarantee which will show up. Please note the existence of multiple persons sharing ID numbers is not the fault of the IEBC but rather the ministry of home affairs.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
masukuma
#107 Posted : Saturday, January 21, 2017 7:36:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
masukuma wrote:
murchr wrote:
I guess Kalooser can now see the importance of a manual backup Laughing out loudly


THE BOT (as @Swenani likes to refer to me these day) HAS REMEMBERED!! we did have this discussions here on wazua 5 years ago!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Now RAO says his number too has a companion. Manual backup tu ndio solution.

#1 Posted :


masukuma = Saturday, November 24, 2012 3:46:39 PM wrote:

Anyang Nyongo is paranoid - he things each time something goes wrong its a scheme to rig the elections. the BVR machines have been preloaded with data from the old register - that's why old voters just need to confirm their details and have new data added (biodata and biometric). if your ID number returns someone else its not that the IEBC is scheming to disenfranchise you but rather that there are indeed individuals that have been allocated the same ID number and thus if both had registered last time there is no guarantee which will show up. Please note the existence of multiple persons sharing ID numbers is not the fault of the IEBC but rather the ministry of home affairs.

ID number is not useful bwana!! why are people missing the point? it's a photo register!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
alma1
#108 Posted : Saturday, January 21, 2017 7:51:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
washiku wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Bigchick wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
Masukush,are ID numbers unique?
What does the IEBC use to uniquely identify the voter?
If I register with my ID card then try to register using my passport,would IEBC know that I am already a registered voter?


Biometrics tashika wewe

Na kama nimejipaka arimis kwa mkono?


Biometrics si mikono tu.


Okay. I hope they won't ask me to bare and sit on the BVRsmile

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Guka.You may shock the clerks with the wrinkles.



Ngai!You people stopLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Am trying to picture the barering and the wrinkles therein.😂😂


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Now that's what we call a unique ID number
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Swenani
#109 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:25:59 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
FRM2011
#110 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 8:00:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459

@masukuma, your opinion on the new developments. What's the matter with shared IDs ? How did the database accept shared IDs ?

And why is the IEBC such a hopeless communicator ? It's an election year and we know how dicey things can get.

Why would KPMG dirty its hands in the voter register issues ? Now the only thing some folks are seeing is the ( ethnic) name of the CEO.

What's the best way to do a clean-up to everyone's satisfaction ?
grolut
#111 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:14:33 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 563
Location: Embakasi
FRM2011 wrote:

@masukuma, your opinion on the new developments. What's the matter with shared IDs ? How did the database accept shared IDs ?

And why is the IEBC such a hopeless communicator ? It's an election year and we know how dicey things can get.

Why would KPMG dirty its hands in the voter register issues ? Now the only thing some folks are seeing is the ( ethnic) name of the CEO.

What's the best way to do a clean-up to everyone's satisfaction ?


I saw a picture of the system, it seems that IEBC have not used the ID number as the primary key in the database, this would reject duplicates.

I suspect IEBC anticipated errors in data capture and avoided using it as the primary key in case it locked
voters out due to the errors. What they should have done is integrate it with the national register so that IEBC clerks and voters can search in real-time and confirm the ID number matches the particulars of the one registering.
In a place where thought is abandoned, freedom can become a curse.
Lolest!
#112 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:16:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
alma1 wrote:
washiku wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Bigchick wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
PeterReborn wrote:
Masukush,are ID numbers unique?
What does the IEBC use to uniquely identify the voter?
If I register with my ID card then try to register using my passport,would IEBC know that I am already a registered voter?


Biometrics tashika wewe

Na kama nimejipaka arimis kwa mkono?


Biometrics si mikono tu.


Okay. I hope they won't ask me to bare and sit on the BVRsmile

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Guka.You may shock the clerks with the wrinkles.



Ngai!You people stopLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Am trying to picture the barering and the wrinkles therein.😂😂


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Now that's what we call a unique ID number

Ati nini alma?Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Ngalaka
#113 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:25:26 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
FRM2011 wrote:

@masukuma, your opinion on the new developments. What's the matter with shared IDs ? How did the database accept shared IDs ?

And why is the IEBC such a hopeless communicator ? It's an election year and we know how dicey things can get.

Why would KPMG dirty its hands in the voter register issues ? Now the only thing some folks are seeing is the ( ethnic) name of the CEO.

What's the best way to do a clean-up to everyone's satisfaction
?


Following that 'wisdom' IEBC Chair and CEO are from an opposition zone! So, is the allegation that IEBC is working with the Auditors to cheat the opposition!!

I remain firmly of the opinion that key opposition politicians have their eyes on something else other than free and fair election!
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
masukuma
#114 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 11:33:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
grolut wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

@masukuma, your opinion on the new developments. What's the matter with shared IDs ? How did the database accept shared IDs ?

And why is the IEBC such a hopeless communicator ? It's an election year and we know how dicey things can get.

Why would KPMG dirty its hands in the voter register issues ? Now the only thing some folks are seeing is the ( ethnic) name of the CEO.

What's the best way to do a clean-up to everyone's satisfaction ?


I saw a picture of the system, it seems that IEBC have not used the ID number as the primary key in the database, this would reject duplicates.

I suspect IEBC anticipated errors in data capture and avoided using it as the primary key in case it locked
voters out due to the errors. What they should have done is integrate it with the national register so that IEBC clerks and voters can search in real-time and confirm the ID number matches the particulars of the one registering.

let me ask a basic question... anyone can answer!!

WHO TOLD YOU THE ID NUMBER IS UNIQUE?

anyone is free to answer!!

secondly,
IF THE ID NUMBER UNIQUELY IDENTIFIES YOU - WHY GO BUY A 9 BILLION SHILLING SYSTEM TO CAPTURE BIOMETRICS?
Access could have handled it!!

#MythBusting!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
PeterReborn
#115 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 8:38:36 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,063
masukuma wrote:
grolut wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

@masukuma, your opinion on the new developments. What's the matter with shared IDs ? How did the database accept shared IDs ?

And why is the IEBC such a hopeless communicator ? It's an election year and we know how dicey things can get.

Why would KPMG dirty its hands in the voter register issues ? Now the only thing some folks are seeing is the ( ethnic) name of the CEO.

What's the best way to do a clean-up to everyone's satisfaction ?


I saw a picture of the system, it seems that IEBC have not used the ID number as the primary key in the database, this would reject duplicates.

I suspect IEBC anticipated errors in data capture and avoided using it as the primary key in case it locked
voters out due to the errors. What they should have done is integrate it with the national register so that IEBC clerks and voters can search in real-time and confirm the ID number matches the particulars of the one registering.

let me ask a basic question... anyone can answer!!

WHO TOLD YOU THE ID NUMBER IS UNIQUE?

anyone is free to answer!!

secondly,
IF THE ID NUMBER UNIQUELY IDENTIFIES YOU - WHY GO BUY A 9 BILLION SHILLING SYSTEM TO CAPTURE BIOMETRICS?
Access could have handled it!!

#MythBusting!!

Why is the 9B system failing to detect the dublication of the ID Numbers?
Why not use a centralised database which checks if the ID number has been registered?
How difficult is it to write a code that ensure the ID number is only used once?If you try to reenter gives an error.
Why does immigration department issue IDs with similar numbers?
Consistency is better than intensity
murchr
#116 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 9:03:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
PeterReborn wrote:
masukuma wrote:
grolut wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

@masukuma, your opinion on the new developments. What's the matter with shared IDs ? How did the database accept shared IDs ?

And why is the IEBC such a hopeless communicator ? It's an election year and we know how dicey things can get.

Why would KPMG dirty its hands in the voter register issues ? Now the only thing some folks are seeing is the ( ethnic) name of the CEO.

What's the best way to do a clean-up to everyone's satisfaction ?


I saw a picture of the system, it seems that IEBC have not used the ID number as the primary key in the database, this would reject duplicates.

I suspect IEBC anticipated errors in data capture and avoided using it as the primary key in case it locked
voters out due to the errors. What they should have done is integrate it with the national register so that IEBC clerks and voters can search in real-time and confirm the ID number matches the particulars of the one registering.

let me ask a basic question... anyone can answer!!

WHO TOLD YOU THE ID NUMBER IS UNIQUE?

anyone is free to answer!!

secondly,
IF THE ID NUMBER UNIQUELY IDENTIFIES YOU - WHY GO BUY A 9 BILLION SHILLING SYSTEM TO CAPTURE BIOMETRICS?
Access could have handled it!!

#MythBusting!!

Why is the 9B system failing to detect the dublication of the ID Numbers?
Why not use a centralised database which checks if the ID number has been registered?
How difficult is it to write a code that ensure the ID number is only used once?If you try to reenter gives an error.
Why does immigration department issue IDs with similar numbers?


What do you mean by saying "failing to detect dublication"

The system knows ID numbers are not unique so its just returning a value that was entered in the system.

If anything its the same system that tells you that you share a number with someone else and can tell how many people share the entity called ID numbers. Which is NOT a primary key in this database. The only unique variable in this database is the voter id number, so ID number here is as random as the your name.

Lakini @masukush, hii database hamna foreign key?

My peni mbili is to avoid this confusion, once someone attains the age of 18, the govt should issue them with an ID, voters card, and optional driving licence after test. The registrar of persons needs to get serious.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
masukuma
#117 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 12:42:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
PeterReborn wrote:

Why is the 9B system failing to detect the dublication of the ID Numbers?
Why not use a centralised database which checks if the ID number has been registered?
How difficult is it to write a code that ensure the ID number is only used once?If you try to reenter gives an error.
Why does NRB issue IDs with similar numbers?


that is the bigger question! everything else feeds from it!! you cannot refuse to register someone because
NOTE THE TERMS HERE - his/her ID card has a number that has been issued to someone else. You refer those cases to the issuing authority!

It's not IEBC's job to determine whether one number is shared UNTIL it gets told by the issuing authority that it's the case and my question was....
I REPEAT!!

WHO TOLD YOU THE ID NUMBER IS UNIQUE?

has the issuing authority (NRB) come out and said - YES, THEY ARE UNIQUE? and even if they do - IEBC cannot restrict data collection because "your ID number has been used" - what if it's the fraudster who registered first? the best way to handle this is - collect all the data and SEND IT to the ISSUING AUTHORITY and ask them... who between these two persons (or 3) is have you allocated the ID number to? sio mambo na primary keys, unqiue keys... those are database basics!! you apply technology to solve a problem. duplication is not a problem for an overwhelming majority of the cases but when it comes to elections and laws (private sector people listen up - you are the guys that always line up 'solutions' every 5 years to do BLAH BLAH BLAH) the thing you have has to work on 100% of the cases. if you decide to make ID numbers primary then -
1) you need written down assurances from the issuer of the document that they don't issue out duplicated ID Numbers
2) you need a process in place to determine which is valid in the case two occur. remember one can be a result of data capture errors... kwani?

and so I go back to my question

WHO TOLD YOU THE ID NUMBER IS UNIQUE?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#118 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:35:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
by the way - no one says figuring out duplicates is a problem. that is trivial - the biggest question is WHAT TO DO WITH THEM? my point in all this is the notion that the ID Number on your ID card just belongs to you and is guaranteed to just belong to you is naive and actually a urban legend.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
murchr
#119 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 4:26:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
masukuma wrote:
by the way - no one says figuring out duplicates is a problem. that is trivial - the biggest question is WHAT TO DO WITH THEM? my point in all this is the notion that the ID Number on your ID card just belongs to you and is guaranteed to just belong to you is naive and actually a urban legend.


In a perfect world, your ID number should be unique since it is a citizens identifier. Look at it from the perspective of a database that contains the identities of the people of this republic.

(Now this is my assumption) In creating a voters register the ID is only useful for the purposes of identification and can only be religiously useful if clean data is ported from the national registry that said, your ID is not really useful for voting as long as you have a voters card and your biometrics were/are captured.

Now on a serious note, Kenya iko shida mingi sana ata data management kwa serikal iko na itilafu....pesa za wazee zina peanwa aje?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
aemathenge
#120 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 6:35:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
murchr wrote:
(Now this is my assumption) your ID is not really useful for voting as long as you have a voters card ....

@Masukuma vehemently and categorically disagrees.
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