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#lipakamatender
Dahatre
#161 Posted : Thursday, January 19, 2017 9:42:18 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 602
Don't get me wrong...I am not blaming the private sector. I am as good a capitalist as the next guy. However, to have no safety net in a country where a high proportion of people cannot afford health care costs is courting disaster.

If we had a government thinking government(or an opposition worth anything), we would be looking for ways to strengthen universal health care even as we privatize aspects of it. Strong economies like Germany have socialized medicine and it is relatively small portion of their GDP.
chemirocha wrote:
Dahatre wrote:
Aaaand the privatization efforts continue...with everyone chasing the Kenyan middle class

But first we must kill any semblance of public health care for all.

Link


As a country we are being held at ransom by civil servants courtesy of government incompetence.

Its not a conspiracy for a private entity to see an opportunity to make some money.
aemathenge
#162 Posted : Thursday, January 19, 2017 11:52:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
...... while....
Quote:
MP Shah Hospital is set to employ 200 more medical staff with the construction of a Sh800 million complex in Nairobi by December to meet growing healthcare needs.


Link:
murchr
#163 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 5:45:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
aemathenge wrote:
...... while....
Quote:
MP Shah Hospital is set to employ 200 more medical staff with the construction of a Sh800 million complex in Nairobi by December to meet growing healthcare needs.


Link:


85-90% of those will be nurses, clinical officers, lap technicians and subordinate staff. Most docs operating in private hospitals are not in full time employment they work as consultants depending on their specialties. And that's how the GOK docs should be, only show up for an hour or 2 and leave, unless you are in the ER. Docs need to punch in time in/out so that overtime can be paid only to those who work long hours
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
2012
#164 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 8:59:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
...... while....
Quote:
MP Shah Hospital is set to employ 200 more medical staff with the construction of a Sh800 million complex in Nairobi by December to meet growing healthcare needs.


Link:


85-90% of those will be nurses, clinical officers, lap technicians and subordinate staff. Most docs operating in private hospitals are not in full time employment they work as consultants depending on their specialties. And that's how the GOK docs should be, only show up for an hour or 2 and leave, unless you are in the ER. Docs need to punch in time in/out so that overtime can be paid only to those who work long hours


That's how senior GOK doctors operate as well. Most of the other 'doctors' you meet in GOK hospitals and GOK referral hospitals are students in Medical school, some in their first years, others doing their masters and phd. Their lectures who are senior doctors will do rounds with them once in a while. That's why you'll never see the older doctors in the streets

BBI will solve it
:)
masukuma
#165 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 9:06:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
...... while....
Quote:
MP Shah Hospital is set to employ 200 more medical staff with the construction of a Sh800 million complex in Nairobi by December to meet growing healthcare needs.


Link:


85-90% of those will be nurses, clinical officers, lap technicians and subordinate staff. Most docs operating in private hospitals are not in full time employment they work as consultants depending on their specialties. And that's how the GOK docs should be, only show up for an hour or 2 and leave, unless you are in the ER. Docs need to punch in time in/out so that overtime can be paid only to those who work long hours

remind me again...hawa hufanya kazi gani?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Swenani
#166 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 9:28:19 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
masukuma wrote:
murchr wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
...... while....
Quote:
MP Shah Hospital is set to employ 200 more medical staff with the construction of a Sh800 million complex in Nairobi by December to meet growing healthcare needs.


Link:


85-90% of those will be nurses, clinical officers, lap technicians and subordinate staff. Most docs operating in private hospitals are not in full time employment they work as consultants depending on their specialties. And that's how the GOK docs should be, only show up for an hour or 2 and leave, unless you are in the ER. Docs need to punch in time in/out so that overtime can be paid only to those who work long hours

remind me again...hawa hufanya kazi gani?


They work on your laps aka lap dancers
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
alma1
#167 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 9:53:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
2012 wrote:
murchr wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
...... while....
Quote:
MP Shah Hospital is set to employ 200 more medical staff with the construction of a Sh800 million complex in Nairobi by December to meet growing healthcare needs.


Link:


85-90% of those will be nurses, clinical officers, lap technicians and subordinate staff. Most docs operating in private hospitals are not in full time employment they work as consultants depending on their specialties. And that's how the GOK docs should be, only show up for an hour or 2 and leave, unless you are in the ER. Docs need to punch in time in/out so that overtime can be paid only to those who work long hours


That's how senior GOK doctors operate as well. Most of the other 'doctors' you meet in GOK hospitals and GOK referral hospitals are students in Medical school, some in their first years, others doing their masters and phd. Their lectures who are senior doctors will do rounds with them once in a while. That's why you'll never see the older doctors in the streets



This is the point where an English lesson is important

Employee

em·ploy·ee
emˈploiē,emˌploiˈē/
noun
a person employed for wages or salary, especially at nonexecutive level.
synonyms: worker, working man/woman, member of staff, staffer; More

noun
plural noun: consultants
1.
a person who provides expert advice professionally.
synonyms: adviser, expert, specialist, authority, pundit
"she freelanced as a communications consultant"
2.
BRITISH
a hospital doctor of senior rank within a specific field.


This argument is taking us back towards English 101

Not every doctor can be a consultant. So that you pay them for their expert advise and only when they show up. In fact, if you take that route please tell me one consultant you know who's paid cheaper than an employee.

If the gov't can't afford to pay wages for employees, please explain how they pay consultant fees? Assuming in this scenario every doctor in Kenya is hired as a consultant....Pole pole tafadhali so that I can understand.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

murchr
#168 Posted : Saturday, January 21, 2017 6:11:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
alma1 wrote:
2012 wrote:
murchr wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
...... while....
Quote:
MP Shah Hospital is set to employ 200 more medical staff with the construction of a Sh800 million complex in Nairobi by December to meet growing healthcare needs.


Link:


85-90% of those will be nurses, clinical officers, lap technicians and subordinate staff. Most docs operating in private hospitals are not in full time employment they work as consultants depending on their specialties. And that's how the GOK docs should be, only show up for an hour or 2 and leave, unless you are in the ER. Docs need to punch in time in/out so that overtime can be paid only to those who work long hours


That's how senior GOK doctors operate as well. Most of the other 'doctors' you meet in GOK hospitals and GOK referral hospitals are students in Medical school, some in their first years, others doing their masters and phd. Their lectures who are senior doctors will do rounds with them once in a while. That's why you'll never see the older doctors in the streets



This is the point where an English lesson is important

Employee

em·ploy·ee
emˈploiē,emˌploiˈē/
noun
a person employed for wages or salary, especially at nonexecutive level.
synonyms: worker, working man/woman, member of staff, staffer; More

noun
plural noun: consultants
1.
a person who provides expert advice professionally.
synonyms: adviser, expert, specialist, authority, pundit
"she freelanced as a communications consultant"
2.
BRITISH
a hospital doctor of senior rank within a specific field.


This argument is taking us back towards English 101

Not every doctor can be a consultant. So that you pay them for their expert advise and only when they show up. In fact, if you take that route please tell me one consultant you know who's paid cheaper than an employee.

If the gov't can't afford to pay wages for employees, please explain how they pay consultant fees? Assuming in this scenario every doctor in Kenya is hired as a consultant....Pole pole tafadhali so that I can understand.


@Alma loose the dictionary. A general ward (the one that caters for kawa patients like lets say those sick with Malaria, would need/require about 3 docs each working on 8hr shifts unless there's an emergency. The majority of the work in hospitals is done by clinical officers and nurses, the clinical officer is the person who sees you first and refers you to either a certain doc or to the lapb technician for testing. Docs work in rounds - they read the charts noted by COs and nurses and then decide if the patient will continue to stay or can take can go home and become an out patient.

Now incases of an emergency or epidemic all docs get in and are on call, now in such cases they should be paid overtime. That is when their hours are not fixed. There are days that some docs see less than 5 people in a week. Clocking in and out is important, so that docs working in those hospitals where there's too much of work can be well compensated.

I am particularly not for the idea that all docs should be paid the same. They need to put in time for their pay. Those jungu docs you see volunteering are here are putting in time while doing research.

Another thing, govt should stop subsidizing medical degrees. Let them take up student loans and pay up after employment after all, its guaranteed.



"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
obiero
#169 Posted : Sunday, January 22, 2017 8:28:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,501
Location: nairobi
Serikali has seriously let down Kenyans on this issue

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Coolbull
#170 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2017 3:13:56 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/23/2007
Posts: 604
The government is busy campaigning while doctors are busy running their private clinics. Truly, to be poor is a crime.
obiero
#171 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 7:28:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,501
Location: nairobi
Coolbull wrote:
The government is busy campaigning while doctors are busy running their private clinics. Truly, to be poor is a crime.

A terrible crime, especially in this country

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
aemathenge
#172 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 9:18:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
obiero wrote:
Coolbull wrote:
The government is busy campaigning while doctors are busy running their private clinics. Truly, to be poor is a crime.

A terrible crime, especially in this country

..... while private medical enterprises are expanding rapidly......

Quote:
“We settled on Kiambu because at the moment, our main hospital and two clinics cater to patients who reside in the southern part of Nairobi.

The new clinic will cater to those in the north west side,” Mr Odundo said in an interview.

“At the moment, the town and its environs do not have a proper hospital despite the large population living there.

Our decision to set up in the town is therefore meant to meet this urgent need.


Link:
quicksand
#173 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:12:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Na hii ultimatum to jail the union leaders imefika wapi? The deadline lapses today...
muganda
#174 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 2:39:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
quicksand wrote:
Na hii ultimatum to jail the union leaders imefika wapi? The deadline lapses today...

Imefikia hapa - karibia if you are in good health.
alma1
#175 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:09:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Hapa ndio Kenya imetufikicha.

And ati you are going to wake up and be paid 527 bob to tweet by whom?

Before you post glorious things about other people who only care about their mpigs salaries, ask them to give you medical insurance to India. Coz whatever they are paying you to go full sychophant had better be enough for your next caeserian.

I have been informed that the PS said today that if the gov't pays gov't doctors well, it will collapse the private hospitals....

mmmhhhh Now we know the real reason.









Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Anti_Burglar
#176 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:25:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024



Alma,

About those photos you have put, how will better and higher pay for the doctors ensure MCAs do not hijack ambulances for personal use and that there will be blood in the blood bank and that gloves will be available etc?

It seems they is some unclear projections being done here and fallacious arguments being advanced for whatever reasons. What is the strike for? For better salaries or for improved medical supplies procurement?


alma1
#177 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:33:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Anti_Burglar wrote:



Alma,

About those photos you have put, how will better and higher pay for the doctors ensure MCAs do not hijack ambulances for personal use and that there will be blood in the blood bank and that gloves will be available etc?

It seems they is some unclear projections being done here and fallacious arguments being advanced for whatever reasons. What is the strike for? For better salaries or for improved medical supplies procurement?





The problem with the doctors is that they don't have noisy "bloggers" to pay so the narrative has been one sided

They are asking for sijui how many millions in salary.

But that's not what they were asking for when all this started.

For those who have had the displeasure of entering a hospital, whether gov't or private, it is not a place to get healed. It's now a place to go die and ask for facebook friends to changa for you. Coz they system just ain't working.

I know very many doctors. Very young guys and girls and even if you gave them 300k salary, they won't be happy.

It ain't funny when people die in your hands every day then Alai goes to tweet how terrible a doctor you are. Yet, the gov't and the country gov't refused to deliver simple things like blood.

Here's the CBA in short. This is what the media in Kenya shall never report...Too much money coming from those pharma companies pushing you to the next untrained chemist.

Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Anti_Burglar
#178 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:37:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024
muganda wrote:
quicksand wrote:
Na hii ultimatum to jail the union leaders imefika wapi? The deadline lapses today...

Imefikia hapa - karibia if you are in good health.



Muganda, to you the same question I have asked Alma I will ask you.

I have seen one that Dr. Samuel Oroko walked barefoot to school and had jiggers. His strike, in which other jigger afflicted children are suffering and have died possibly because he wants higher pay, how does it resonate with his history?

Or on Dr. Ouma Oluga. That his father died in a public hospital because he alleges he did not get the best health care, how does it resonate with his agitation for higher personal pay?

What is the real issue because logically for these 2, at least, a higher salary should not be their motivating factor in their profession.
Anti_Burglar
#179 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:53:37 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024
alma1 wrote:
Anti_Burglar wrote:



Alma,

About those photos you have put, how will better and higher pay for the doctors ensure MCAs do not hijack ambulances for personal use and that there will be blood in the blood bank and that gloves will be available etc?

It seems they is some unclear projections being done here and fallacious arguments being advanced for whatever reasons. What is the strike for? For better salaries or for improved medical supplies procurement?





The problem with the doctors is that they don't have noisy "bloggers" to pay so the narrative has been one sided

They are asking for sijui how many millions in salary.

But that's not what they were asking for when all this started.

For those who have had the displeasure of entering a hospital, whether gov't or private, it is not a place to get healed. It's now a place to go die and ask for facebook friends to changa for you. Coz they system just ain't working.

I know very many doctors. Very young guys and girls and even if you gave them 300k salary, they won't be happy.

It ain't funny when people die in your hands every day then Alai goes to tweet how terrible a doctor you are. Yet, the gov't and the country gov't refused to deliver simple things like blood.

Here's the CBA in short. This is what the media in Kenya shall never report...Too much money coming from those pharma companies pushing you to the next untrained chemist.




I have not had the chance of reading the bloggers, but nevertheless what you have put is still not clear.

So if for instance the CBA is implemented, the kin of patients will not fundraise anymore to pay for treatment? That would be like utopia!

Or on more health care workers in public service to treat our population, that would mean the training institutions churn out more personnel over and above the many they produce each year for starters? If the CBA is implemented the number of medics graduating would rise? Or where would the 'more' medics in public service come from?

I think truth has been the casualty in this conflict.
alma1
#180 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2017 4:15:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Anti_Burglar wrote:



I have not had the chance of reading the bloggers, but nevertheless what you have put is still not clear.

So if for instance the CBA is implemented, the kin of patients will not fundraise anymore to pay for treatment? That would be like utopia!

Or on more health care workers in public service to treat our population, that would mean the training institutions churn out more personnel over and above the many they produce each year for starters? If the CBA is implemented the number of medics graduating would rise? Or where would the 'more' medics in public service come from?

I think truth has been the casualty in this conflict.


There's no conflict as you want to put it. It's just one side that is refusing to do what they promised to do..That's not a conflict that's being a liar.

I don't know why you want to push the pay agenda but let me help you a bit.

Part of the CBA requires the gov't to facilitate hospitals with proper tools and equipment. Murchr has his own idea on how that should be implemented...But the issue is that the gov't whether they want to to call it central or county must provide proper tools and equipment.

I know that Jubilee really loves this section. After all they boast about all those cancer machines they have provided all over the world.

But as you can see from the stories above, the reality is a bit different. No blood, no meds, no gloves...I promise you there's no tissue paper in hospital and you have to go with your won..

Anti Burglar, do you think that can help the country?

Another issue....The doctors and this gov't agreed to increase the medical staff in the health care industry...Why?

Because for the doctors it means they work humane hours.

Jubilee should also love this aspect. After all they said sijui how many million jobs that were to come after the electric trains.

Think about the nurses, clinical officers, even sweepers in well equipped hospitals...The economy would boooooom!

But the reality is different. 4k doctors was the boast by the CS this morning...40 million Kenyans... don't even want to do that math.

Anti Burglar, do you think that employeeing more Kenyans is a good thing?


The CS today confessed on live TV that if they pay doctors, private hospitals would die?

mmmmhhhh so what if private hospitals died? Is it better for my cucu not to get diabetics medicine at Tumu Tumu hospital and die than the CS and his people pay 50k a night at MP Shah?




I know why this is a hot potato that even Raira is afraid to touch...

These people have killed the public health care system from the days of Moi...They have no one to blame. Raira can't blame, Uhuru, Uhuru can't blame Kibaki, Kibaki can't blame Raira..

They have been total failures and even Moi is shocked.

Now instead they shall blame 7 young men and women for deciding not to see HIV positive patients sharing the same beds with diabetics.

All they shall talk about is their salaries. For an mpig to talk about salaries is an early indicator of Alzheimers.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

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