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US Elections, Hillary or Trump?
Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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hardwood wrote:chemirocha wrote:[quote=hardwood] In this very thread on some earlier post I have said that it is Obama (and Hillary) who armed rebels to remove Assad in Syria, like they armed rebels to remove Qadaffi in Libya. Then Assad sought the help of Russians to help him crush the rebels (and ISIS) that wanted to remove him, which the Russians successfully did and today even the rebel/ISIS stronghold of Aleppo has been cleansed. Note that many rebel groups funded by the west later joined ISIS which was seeking to establish a caliphate in the middle east. So my point was that since Trump has deviated from Obama's policy of arming rebels and rather wants a closer working relationship with Russia (which thus means Assad), things will only get better where the fight against rebels /terrorists is concerned. Remember that in the middle east there were two main rebel groups, that is ISIS and the "other rebel groups". The US was arming the "other west funded rebel groups" what it was referring to as the "good rebels/ terrorists" and using them against Assad, Qadaffi etc. But when Russia moved in to help Assad it started fighting all rebels, that is ISIS and all groups that had been armed by US and UK to remove Assad. That is why the US and UK were complaining that Russia was also bombing "their good guys". With Trump supporting Russia in the middle east, it will be tricky for the US since Trump and Russia will be fighting the same rebels the US has been funding and equipping, and in fact some of those rebel groups have CIA agents embedded in them who are training and guiding them. One other thing we should note is that Trump is a narcissistic man who respects powerful men. Therefore expect him to be close to Russia's Putin, Assad and many strongmen, maybe even Mugabe. I do not foresee him pushing for good governance in some backwater 3rd world countries like Kenya. And therefore people like baba, perennial losers who havent shown any capacity to acquire power will be ignored and sidelined in favour of "smart" leaders like Ohuru who can win. Trump likes winners. Trump is also on record saying that the biggest threat to the world is Islamic terrorism and that therefore a country like Russia which he calls a "white civilised country" needs to be supported in this war by other white civilised countries. https://www.theguardian....n/03/us-isis-syria-iraq[/quote] Your theory fails because US and Russian regional interests are in direct contradiction. The Russians share close military ties with Assad while the US is bound by treaty to protect Israeli and Turkish/ NATO interests. It is important to note that Israel and Syria are technically still at war. The Trump inauguration on Jan 20 will throw the spanner in the works. Trump's only enemy in the middle east is Iran. But Iran and Russia are helping Assad/Syria fight ISIS/rebels, complicating matters. Also Trump has vowed to protect Israel. The US is also bound to support NATO. With this plethora of scenarios it seems Trump is what the world has been waiting for. Someone to befriend and bring everyone on board. #BwanaDawa Seems he has started off on the wrong note, antagonising the Arab world with his threat to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. To resolve the many issues in the Middle East it will take very sober minds and a level of diplomacy that Trump is incapable of.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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chemirocha wrote:hardwood wrote:chemirocha wrote:[quote=hardwood] In this very thread on some earlier post I have said that it is Obama (and Hillary) who armed rebels to remove Assad in Syria, like they armed rebels to remove Qadaffi in Libya. Then Assad sought the help of Russians to help him crush the rebels (and ISIS) that wanted to remove him, which the Russians successfully did and today even the rebel/ISIS stronghold of Aleppo has been cleansed. Note that many rebel groups funded by the west later joined ISIS which was seeking to establish a caliphate in the middle east. So my point was that since Trump has deviated from Obama's policy of arming rebels and rather wants a closer working relationship with Russia (which thus means Assad), things will only get better where the fight against rebels /terrorists is concerned. Remember that in the middle east there were two main rebel groups, that is ISIS and the "other rebel groups". The US was arming the "other west funded rebel groups" what it was referring to as the "good rebels/ terrorists" and using them against Assad, Qadaffi etc. But when Russia moved in to help Assad it started fighting all rebels, that is ISIS and all groups that had been armed by US and UK to remove Assad. That is why the US and UK were complaining that Russia was also bombing "their good guys". With Trump supporting Russia in the middle east, it will be tricky for the US since Trump and Russia will be fighting the same rebels the US has been funding and equipping, and in fact some of those rebel groups have CIA agents embedded in them who are training and guiding them. One other thing we should note is that Trump is a narcissistic man who respects powerful men. Therefore expect him to be close to Russia's Putin, Assad and many strongmen, maybe even Mugabe. I do not foresee him pushing for good governance in some backwater 3rd world countries like Kenya. And therefore people like baba, perennial losers who havent shown any capacity to acquire power will be ignored and sidelined in favour of "smart" leaders like Ohuru who can win. Trump likes winners. Trump is also on record saying that the biggest threat to the world is Islamic terrorism and that therefore a country like Russia which he calls a "white civilised country" needs to be supported in this war by other white civilised countries. https://www.theguardian....n/03/us-isis-syria-iraq[/quote] Your theory fails because US and Russian regional interests are in direct contradiction. The Russians share close military ties with Assad while the US is bound by treaty to protect Israeli and Turkish/ NATO interests. It is important to note that Israel and Syria are technically still at war. The Trump inauguration on Jan 20 will throw the spanner in the works. Trump's only enemy in the middle east is Iran. But Iran and Russia are helping Assad/Syria fight ISIS/rebels, complicating matters. Also Trump has vowed to protect Israel. The US is also bound to support NATO. With this plethora of scenarios it seems Trump is what the world has been waiting for. Someone to befriend and bring everyone on board. #BwanaDawa Seems he has started off on the wrong note, antagonising the Arab world with his threat to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. To resolve the many issues in the Middle East it will take very sober minds and a level of diplomacy that Trump is incapable of. Chemirocha, so you think Saudi Arabia, and other Sunni Arab states and their governments care about Palestine and Jerusalem?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Anti_Burglar wrote:chemirocha wrote:hardwood wrote:chemirocha wrote:[quote=hardwood] In this very thread on some earlier post I have said that it is Obama (and Hillary) who armed rebels to remove Assad in Syria, like they armed rebels to remove Qadaffi in Libya. Then Assad sought the help of Russians to help him crush the rebels (and ISIS) that wanted to remove him, which the Russians successfully did and today even the rebel/ISIS stronghold of Aleppo has been cleansed. Note that many rebel groups funded by the west later joined ISIS which was seeking to establish a caliphate in the middle east. So my point was that since Trump has deviated from Obama's policy of arming rebels and rather wants a closer working relationship with Russia (which thus means Assad), things will only get better where the fight against rebels /terrorists is concerned. Remember that in the middle east there were two main rebel groups, that is ISIS and the "other rebel groups". The US was arming the "other west funded rebel groups" what it was referring to as the "good rebels/ terrorists" and using them against Assad, Qadaffi etc. But when Russia moved in to help Assad it started fighting all rebels, that is ISIS and all groups that had been armed by US and UK to remove Assad. That is why the US and UK were complaining that Russia was also bombing "their good guys". With Trump supporting Russia in the middle east, it will be tricky for the US since Trump and Russia will be fighting the same rebels the US has been funding and equipping, and in fact some of those rebel groups have CIA agents embedded in them who are training and guiding them. One other thing we should note is that Trump is a narcissistic man who respects powerful men. Therefore expect him to be close to Russia's Putin, Assad and many strongmen, maybe even Mugabe. I do not foresee him pushing for good governance in some backwater 3rd world countries like Kenya. And therefore people like baba, perennial losers who havent shown any capacity to acquire power will be ignored and sidelined in favour of "smart" leaders like Ohuru who can win. Trump likes winners. Trump is also on record saying that the biggest threat to the world is Islamic terrorism and that therefore a country like Russia which he calls a "white civilised country" needs to be supported in this war by other white civilised countries. https://www.theguardian....n/03/us-isis-syria-iraq[/quote] Your theory fails because US and Russian regional interests are in direct contradiction. The Russians share close military ties with Assad while the US is bound by treaty to protect Israeli and Turkish/ NATO interests. It is important to note that Israel and Syria are technically still at war. The Trump inauguration on Jan 20 will throw the spanner in the works. Trump's only enemy in the middle east is Iran. But Iran and Russia are helping Assad/Syria fight ISIS/rebels, complicating matters. Also Trump has vowed to protect Israel. The US is also bound to support NATO. With this plethora of scenarios it seems Trump is what the world has been waiting for. Someone to befriend and bring everyone on board. #BwanaDawa Seems he has started off on the wrong note, antagonising the Arab world with his threat to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. To resolve the many issues in the Middle East it will take very sober minds and a level of diplomacy that Trump is incapable of. Chemirocha, so you think Saudi Arabia, and other Sunni Arab states and their governments care about Palestine and Jerusalem? Jerusalem is home to the Al-Aqsa Mosque, third holiest site in Islam. Particularly for the Saudis that is a politically sensitive topic.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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chemirocha wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:chemirocha wrote:hardwood wrote:chemirocha wrote:[quote=hardwood] In this very thread on some earlier post I have said that it is Obama (and Hillary) who armed rebels to remove Assad in Syria, like they armed rebels to remove Qadaffi in Libya. Then Assad sought the help of Russians to help him crush the rebels (and ISIS) that wanted to remove him, which the Russians successfully did and today even the rebel/ISIS stronghold of Aleppo has been cleansed. Note that many rebel groups funded by the west later joined ISIS which was seeking to establish a caliphate in the middle east. So my point was that since Trump has deviated from Obama's policy of arming rebels and rather wants a closer working relationship with Russia (which thus means Assad), things will only get better where the fight against rebels /terrorists is concerned. Remember that in the middle east there were two main rebel groups, that is ISIS and the "other rebel groups". The US was arming the "other west funded rebel groups" what it was referring to as the "good rebels/ terrorists" and using them against Assad, Qadaffi etc. But when Russia moved in to help Assad it started fighting all rebels, that is ISIS and all groups that had been armed by US and UK to remove Assad. That is why the US and UK were complaining that Russia was also bombing "their good guys". With Trump supporting Russia in the middle east, it will be tricky for the US since Trump and Russia will be fighting the same rebels the US has been funding and equipping, and in fact some of those rebel groups have CIA agents embedded in them who are training and guiding them. One other thing we should note is that Trump is a narcissistic man who respects powerful men. Therefore expect him to be close to Russia's Putin, Assad and many strongmen, maybe even Mugabe. I do not foresee him pushing for good governance in some backwater 3rd world countries like Kenya. And therefore people like baba, perennial losers who havent shown any capacity to acquire power will be ignored and sidelined in favour of "smart" leaders like Ohuru who can win. Trump likes winners. Trump is also on record saying that the biggest threat to the world is Islamic terrorism and that therefore a country like Russia which he calls a "white civilised country" needs to be supported in this war by other white civilised countries. https://www.theguardian....n/03/us-isis-syria-iraq[/quote] Your theory fails because US and Russian regional interests are in direct contradiction. The Russians share close military ties with Assad while the US is bound by treaty to protect Israeli and Turkish/ NATO interests. It is important to note that Israel and Syria are technically still at war. The Trump inauguration on Jan 20 will throw the spanner in the works. Trump's only enemy in the middle east is Iran. But Iran and Russia are helping Assad/Syria fight ISIS/rebels, complicating matters. Also Trump has vowed to protect Israel. The US is also bound to support NATO. With this plethora of scenarios it seems Trump is what the world has been waiting for. Someone to befriend and bring everyone on board. #BwanaDawa Seems he has started off on the wrong note, antagonising the Arab world with his threat to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. To resolve the many issues in the Middle East it will take very sober minds and a level of diplomacy that Trump is incapable of. Chemirocha, so you think Saudi Arabia, and other Sunni Arab states and their governments care about Palestine and Jerusalem? Jerusalem is home to the Al-Aqsa Mosque, third holiest site in Islam. Particularly for the Saudis that is a politically sensitive topic. Political views will always trump religious views when it comes to the governments of Saudi Arabia and the Sunni states. They will gang up to bomb fellow Muslims in Yemen than honour Allah and his places of worship. That is why you only get to hear of Palestinians, Israel and USA only bickering over Jerusalem and 2 states solution etc.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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The only thing you can take to the bank about Trump is that he's going to be more inward looking. Every deal will be reviewed on the basis 'what's in it for america'. But at some point he will realize ' you cant trump everyone and MAGA(make america great again)'
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Trump is one unpredictable guy! He seems to work on impulses. Feels the urge to answer each and every critic! Currently engaged in unprecedented arguments with the intelligence community! John Lewis - a civil rights icon is also on the receiving end after he dared criticise the president elect! Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Ngalaka wrote:Trump is one unpredictable guy! He seems to work on impulses. Feels the urge to answer each and every critic! Currently engaged in unprecedented arguments with the intelligence community!
John Lewis - a civil rights icon is also on the receiving end after he dared criticise the president elect! I think Steve Bannon of breitbart has been advising trump on what to tweet. And it has been working really well through the primaries, the election and even now.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Alba wrote:Ngalaka wrote:Trump is one unpredictable guy! He seems to work on impulses. Feels the urge to answer each and every critic! Currently engaged in unprecedented arguments with the intelligence community!
John Lewis - a civil rights icon is also on the receiving end after he dared criticise the president elect! I think Steve Bannon of breitbart has been advising trump on what to tweet. And it has been working really well through the primaries, the election and even now. But for how long will his gravy train last? He totally doesnt understand what makes the world go round. Day one on 20th and reality will start setting in
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2014 Posts: 1,420 Location: Bohemian Grove
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limanika wrote:Alba wrote:Ngalaka wrote:Trump is one unpredictable guy! He seems to work on impulses. Feels the urge to answer each and every critic! Currently engaged in unprecedented arguments with the intelligence community!
John Lewis - a civil rights icon is also on the receiving end after he dared criticise the president elect! I think Steve Bannon of breitbart has been advising trump on what to tweet. And it has been working really well through the primaries, the election and even now. But for how long will his gravy train last? He totally doesnt understand what makes the world go round. Day one on 20th and reality will start setting in Its going to be one long wait.Its not stopping any time soon.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Trump attacks German leader. French president responds and tells Trump to shut up. Interesting times ahead. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38644030
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Trump's game plan is so erratic I sometimes wonder if the fellow will even survive one term in office.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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I keep thinking that he is a kiziba macho- to keep us following his antics while the real king-makers make the changes they need to destroy American social safety nets (medicare, social security etc.). chemirocha wrote:
Trump's game plan is so erratic I sometimes wonder if the fellow will even survive one term in office.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Dahatre wrote:I keep thinking that he is a kiziba macho- to keep us following his antics while the real king-makers make the changes they need to destroy American social safety nets (medicare, social security etc.). chemirocha wrote:
Trump's game plan is so erratic I sometimes wonder if the fellow will even survive one term in office.
Agreed. The antics are meant as a distraction from the real issues.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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#Credibility of Assange - Wikileaks!; - Expected to agree to extradition to USAQuote:President Barack Obama's decision Tuesday to commute Chelsea Manning's sentence brought fresh attention to another figure involved in the Army leaker's case: Julian Assange.
On Twitter last week, Assange's anti-secrecy site WikiLeaks posted, "If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case."
Obama's move will test the promise. The president commuted Manning's 35-year sentence, freeing her in May, nearly three decades early. Manning has acknowledged leaking a trove of diplomatic cables and national security documents to WikiLeaks in 2010.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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chemirocha wrote:Dahatre wrote:I keep thinking that he is a kiziba macho- to keep us following his antics while the real king-makers make the changes they need to destroy American social safety nets (medicare, social security etc.). chemirocha wrote:
Trump's game plan is so erratic I sometimes wonder if the fellow will even survive one term in office.
Agreed. The antics are meant as a distraction from the real issues. I agree with you @dahatre and @chemirocha... Surely, these people are not stupid! But they can really fool others... So this is more than we can see...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Who is fooling who! Putin may only draw some minimal benefit by having a white house that will be a tad bit soft, but I don’t see Russia having that much leverage in the US. It is worthy of note that Trump cabinet nominees such as General James Mattis is firmly sceptical of Putin, and will be advising Trump on how to check-mate him. It is almost a given that the US congress is also going to be playing hard ball with regard to Putin, regardless of what Trump may feel. The Senate with Republicans such as John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio will be pushing for anti Putin stance. So, there is likely to be clash of policy view-points right inside Trump’s cabinet meetings, while congress will be exerting pressure of its own as well as blocking any such moves by White house. The long and short of it, it’s going to be an uphill task for Trump to entertain Putin, much less give him a free reign to influence stuff in the US. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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Ngalaka wrote:#Credibility of Assange - Wikileaks!; - Expected to agree to extradition to USAQuote:President Barack Obama's decision Tuesday to commute Chelsea Manning's sentence brought fresh attention to another figure involved in the Army leaker's case: Julian Assange.
On Twitter last week, Assange's anti-secrecy site WikiLeaks posted, "If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case."
Obama's move will test the promise. The president commuted Manning's 35-year sentence, freeing her in May, nearly three decades early. Manning has acknowledged leaking a trove of diplomatic cables and national security documents to WikiLeaks in 2010.
Will not change anything if he still does not agree to go. The alternative view got their desire, they should not care what the establishment feels. Why should they?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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Ngalaka wrote:Who is fooling who!
Putin may only draw some minimal benefit by having a white house that will be a tad bit soft, but I don’t see Russia having that much leverage in the US. It is worthy of note that Trump cabinet nominees such as General James Mattis is firmly sceptical of Putin, and will be advising Trump on how to check-mate him.
It is almost a given that the US congress is also going to be playing hard ball with regard to Putin, regardless of what Trump may feel.
The Senate with Republicans such as John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio will be pushing for anti Putin stance.
So, there is likely to be clash of policy view-points right inside Trump’s cabinet meetings, while congress will be exerting pressure of its own as well as blocking any such moves by White house.
The long and short of it, it’s going to be an uphill task for Trump to entertain Putin, much less give him a free reign to influence stuff in the US.
Of course, there is water-tight, iron-clad evidence?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Ngalaka wrote:Who is fooling who!
Putin may only draw some minimal benefit by having a white house that will be a tad bit soft, but I don’t see Russia having that much leverage in the US. It is worthy of note that Trump cabinet nominees such as General James Mattis is firmly sceptical of Putin, and will be advising Trump on how to check-mate him.
It is almost a given that the US congress is also going to be playing hard ball with regard to Putin, regardless of what Trump may feel.
The Senate with Republicans such as John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio will be pushing for anti Putin stance.
So, there is likely to be clash of policy view-points right inside Trump’s cabinet meetings, while congress will be exerting pressure of its own as well as blocking any such moves by White house.
The long and short of it, it’s going to be an uphill task for Trump to entertain Putin, much less give him a free reign to influence stuff in the US.
Based on his public statements, Trumps foreign policy seems to be brown nosing Israel at the expense of the CIA, NATO and other allies. For Putin; as head of state of Russia and a former KGB spy, manipulating Trump should be a trivial exercise.
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