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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:maka wrote:My very good friend has been given an awesome offer by Qatar...interesting thing is he turned it down till manenos stabilise at KQ The offer is good on paper. Your friend took the best decision. Cost of living is very high, very hot, shifts at crazy hours, visa and so many other restrictions,etc. Substandtiate the above with real life figures. I am speaking from a knowledge point. Even world class health care is not there in Qatar in public hospitals where Qatar Airways employees are expected to go for treatment, they are trying to develop it but they lack professionals. The work load is crazy due to the massive expansion. Check numbeo, it gives a clue of what you expect. If you like alcohol then you need a licence from the employer and you buy a limited no. of bottles from a single distributor. Alcohol testing especially on Monday morning carried out without notice. Restrictions ni kibao. https://www.numbeo.com/c...Kenya&country2=Qatar
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:Kenyan firms need to automate whatever services they can to reduce labor costs. That's the reality.
I watched a documentary of a US car manufacturing plant, in the US, where they hire "cheaper" labor (vs the old union pay scales) and the plant is highly automated. Some sections are fully automated i.e. robots do all the functions. The "humans" are involved in monitoring what the robots are doing.
One scene was really neat. The entire shell/body of the car is dipped in an anti-corrosive bath, to evenly coat the car's body, by a mechanical arm. The whole process didn't even take 30 secs!
As @murchr said, it will not be long until the need for "flight attendants" is reduced further. LCCs are increasing the use of "ordering" screens for food/drinks so no-one comes by to ask if you want to buy a soda or sandwich. Frankly, do you need a flight attendant to show you how to put on your seatbelt?
The 787s need only 2 pilots vs the 3 (pilots/engineers) that were present in older planes. Apparently, the plane can take off, fly and land using the on-board computer. Disruption is real. 787 pilot requirements depends on the distance to be flown. If long haul then two not enough. Where human beings are being processed such as aviation, the employee factor cannot be ignored.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,188 Location: Nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Kenyan firms need to automate whatever services they can to reduce labor costs. That's the reality.
I watched a documentary of a US car manufacturing plant, in the US, where they hire "cheaper" labor (vs the old union pay scales) and the plant is highly automated. Some sections are fully automated i.e. robots do all the functions. The "humans" are involved in monitoring what the robots are doing.
One scene was really neat. The entire shell/body of the car is dipped in an anti-corrosive bath, to evenly coat the car's body, by a mechanical arm. The whole process didn't even take 30 secs!
As @murchr said, it will not be long until the need for "flight attendants" is reduced further. LCCs are increasing the use of "ordering" screens for food/drinks so no-one comes by to ask if you want to buy a soda or sandwich. Frankly, do you need a flight attendant to show you how to put on your seatbelt?
The 787s need only 2 pilots vs the 3 (pilots/engineers) that were present in older planes. Apparently, the plane can take off, fly and land using the on-board computer. Disruption is real. 787 pilot requirements depends on the distance to be flown. If long haul then two not enough. Where human beings are being processed such as aviation, the employee factor cannot be ignored. It's a matter of time before "human staff" are reduced for such functions. Drones are airplanes flown by a combination of computers and humans. As are planes. In 10 years, the "West" will probably have driverless cars. In 25 years, perhaps planes? Or just one pilot in the plane with another on the ground manning 3-4 planes? Will there be crashes? Yes. Will computers be blamed? Yes. Have humans ever crashed planes? Yes. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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VituVingiSana wrote:Kenyan firms need to automate whatever services they can to reduce labor costs. That's the reality.
I watched a documentary of a US car manufacturing plant, in the US, where they hire "cheaper" labor (vs the old union pay scales) and the plant is highly automated. Some sections are fully automated i.e. robots do all the functions. The "humans" are involved in monitoring what the robots are doing.
One scene was really neat. The entire shell/body of the car is dipped in an anti-corrosive bath, to evenly coat the car's body, by a mechanical arm. The whole process didn't even take 30 secs!
As @murchr said, it will not be long until the need for "flight attendants" is reduced further. LCCs are increasing the use of "ordering" screens for food/drinks so no-one comes by to ask if you want to buy a soda or sandwich. Frankly, do you need a flight attendant to show you how to put on your seatbelt?
The 787s need only 2 pilots vs the 3 (pilots/engineers) that were present in older planes. Apparently, the plane can take off, fly and land using the on-board computer. Disruption is real. Kwanza these days flying is very easy and those airport jobs are going away very fast. The travel agency was disrupted by the likes of Kayak and Priceline etc. We book planes online. On booking you select your meal and print your tickets 24hrs before flying, you reserve your seat. You can pay to do this earlier. You can print boarding tickets online, or choose to print them from a kiosk at the checking hall. So the airport guy just verifys your ticket number against what is on the computer. Apart from the immigration guy, the other person you meet is the flight attendant and pilot welcoming you to the plane. As planes become more automated, the number of people required to check if you have tied your seatbelt will def go down. Pushing a cart and handing you what you ordered is not work. The only job they would have is to evacuate you from a plane if it was to have an accident. Trust me, FAA IATA and other regulators will soon meet lobbyist and some of these "requirements" will be revised. @ArrestedDev, the good thing with contract employees is when a company realizes that the wages next year will be unsustainable, they either do away with the expensive workers and bring in trainees or, minimize the workforce. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,188 Location: Nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:My very good friend has been given an awesome offer by Qatar...interesting thing is he turned it down till manenos stabilise at KQ The offer is good on paper. Your friend took the best decision. Cost of living is very high, very hot, shifts at crazy hours, visa and so many other restrictions,etc. Substandtiate the above with real life figures. I am speaking from a knowledge point. Even world class health care is not there in Qatar in public hospitals where Qatar Airways employees are expected to go for treatment, they are trying to develop it but they lack professionals. The work load is crazy due to the massive expansion. Check numbeo, it gives a clue of what you expect. If you like alcohol then you need a licence from the employer and you buy a limited no. of bottles from a single distributor. Alcohol testing especially on Monday morning carried out without notice. Restrictions ni kibao. https://www.numbeo.com/c...enya&country2=Qatar[/quote] I think testing folks who work on planes or fly them for inebriation on a Monday (or any day) when they are headed to work is a good thing! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:maka wrote:My very good friend has been given an awesome offer by Qatar...interesting thing is he turned it down till manenos stabilise at KQ The offer is good on paper. Your friend took the best decision. Cost of living is very high, very hot, shifts at crazy hours, visa and so many other restrictions,etc. Substandtiate the above with real life figures. I am speaking from a knowledge point. Even world class health care is not there in Qatar in public hospitals where Qatar Airways employees are expected to go for treatment, they are trying to develop it but they lack professionals. The work load is crazy due to the massive expansion. Check numbeo, it gives a clue of what you expect. If you like alcohol then you need a licence from the employer and you buy a limited no. of bottles from a single distributor. Alcohol testing especially on Monday morning carried out without notice. Restrictions ni kibao. https://www.numbeo.com/c...enya&country2=Qatar
So anybody can EDIT the numbeo site? Did ypur friend talk with a friend already residing there ama he used this @numbeo site to make his decision? Thanks. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/11/2016 Posts: 30 Location: Nairobi
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Strike may not happen tomorrow. KALPA willing to give gava time to restructure board and management. So strike delayed to a later date.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/11/2016 Posts: 30 Location: Nairobi
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@Obiero you may ease your finger of the sell button for now.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Kenyan firms need to automate whatever services they can to reduce labor costs. That's the reality.
I watched a documentary of a US car manufacturing plant, in the US, where they hire "cheaper" labor (vs the old union pay scales) and the plant is highly automated. Some sections are fully automated i.e. robots do all the functions. The "humans" are involved in monitoring what the robots are doing.
One scene was really neat. The entire shell/body of the car is dipped in an anti-corrosive bath, to evenly coat the car's body, by a mechanical arm. The whole process didn't even take 30 secs!
As @murchr said, it will not be long until the need for "flight attendants" is reduced further. LCCs are increasing the use of "ordering" screens for food/drinks so no-one comes by to ask if you want to buy a soda or sandwich. Frankly, do you need a flight attendant to show you how to put on your seatbelt?
The 787s need only 2 pilots vs the 3 (pilots/engineers) that were present in older planes. Apparently, the plane can take off, fly and land using the on-board computer. Disruption is real. Kwanza these days flying is very easy and those airport jobs are going away very fast. The travel agency was disrupted by the likes of Kayak and Priceline etc. We book planes online. On booking you select your meal and print your tickets 24hrs before flying, you reserve your seat. You can pay to do this earlier. You can print boarding tickets online, or choose to print them from a kiosk at the checking hall. So the airport guy just verifys your ticket number against what is on the computer. Apart from the immigration guy, the other person you meet is the flight attendant and pilot welcoming you to the plane. As planes become more automated, the number of people required to check if you have tied your seatbelt will def go down. Pushing a cart and handing you what you ordered is not work. The only job they would have is to evacuate you from a plane if it was to have an accident. Trust me, FAA IATA and other regulators will soon meet lobbyist and some of these "requirements" will be revised. @ArrestedDev, the good thing with contract employees is when a company realizes that the wages next year will be unsustainable, they either do away with the expensive workers and bring in trainees or, minimize the workforce. I agree with both of you to large extent but it is still a long way to go. Even in developed countries it has not worked as earlier anticipated. Supermarket self check outs is an example, majority of the pensioners shun it totally as they are either not technology savvy or do not like it at all. A big percentage of the airline sales still comes from the travel agencies. The booking engines have gained popularity but due to security issues, the uptake has slowed significantly. KQ for instance, do not allow booking from several booking websites as most does not meet the minimum security measures. The human beings at the airport checking your ticket, visa and health card will be there for years to come, thanks to terrorism. Use of autopilot sometimes is restricted by faults and manual piloting is necessary. Infact, the fly by wire has received its share of criticism that it is compromising the quality of pilots leading to a surge in accidents. AF 447 for instance, the two young pilots at the cockpit failed to control it totally. Trainees alone wont get the job done. Experience in aviation is very key.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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nzalela wrote:
Strike may not happen tomorrow. KALPA willing to give gava time to restructure board and management. So strike delayed to a later date.
A big relief but all thing points to the departure of Ngunze.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:maka wrote:My very good friend has been given an awesome offer by Qatar...interesting thing is he turned it down till manenos stabilise at KQ The offer is good on paper. Your friend took the best decision. Cost of living is very high, very hot, shifts at crazy hours, visa and so many other restrictions,etc. Substandtiate the above with real life figures. I am speaking from a knowledge point. Even world class health care is not there in Qatar in public hospitals where Qatar Airways employees are expected to go for treatment, they are trying to develop it but they lack professionals. The work load is crazy due to the massive expansion. Check numbeo, it gives a clue of what you expect. If you like alcohol then you need a licence from the employer and you buy a limited no. of bottles from a single distributor. Alcohol testing especially on Monday morning carried out without notice. Restrictions ni kibao. https://www.numbeo.com/c...enya&country2=Qatar
So anybody can EDIT the numbeo site? Did ypur friend talk with a friend already residing there ama he used this @numbeo site to make his decision? Thanks. Yes, can be edited but still gives a glimpse of what to expect. There are so many things that will piss you off there. Your ugali is not there unless you carry your maize flour every time you come home. If you are not used to chicken biryani then do not leave. You need a leave out to exit so you have to chase your Indian manager to approve your weekend off/ leave and due to high staff attrition levels getting released even for a weekend off is not easy. I can go on and on. @maka's friend and not me.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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ArrestedDev wrote:murchr wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Kenyan firms need to automate whatever services they can to reduce labor costs. That's the reality.
I watched a documentary of a US car manufacturing plant, in the US, where they hire "cheaper" labor (vs the old union pay scales) and the plant is highly automated. Some sections are fully automated i.e. robots do all the functions. The "humans" are involved in monitoring what the robots are doing.
One scene was really neat. The entire shell/body of the car is dipped in an anti-corrosive bath, to evenly coat the car's body, by a mechanical arm. The whole process didn't even take 30 secs!
As @murchr said, it will not be long until the need for "flight attendants" is reduced further. LCCs are increasing the use of "ordering" screens for food/drinks so no-one comes by to ask if you want to buy a soda or sandwich. Frankly, do you need a flight attendant to show you how to put on your seatbelt?
The 787s need only 2 pilots vs the 3 (pilots/engineers) that were present in older planes. Apparently, the plane can take off, fly and land using the on-board computer. Disruption is real. Kwanza these days flying is very easy and those airport jobs are going away very fast. The travel agency was disrupted by the likes of Kayak and Priceline etc. We book planes online. On booking you select your meal and print your tickets 24hrs before flying, you reserve your seat. You can pay to do this earlier. You can print boarding tickets online, or choose to print them from a kiosk at the checking hall. So the airport guy just verifys your ticket number against what is on the computer. Apart from the immigration guy, the other person you meet is the flight attendant and pilot welcoming you to the plane. As planes become more automated, the number of people required to check if you have tied your seatbelt will def go down. Pushing a cart and handing you what you ordered is not work. The only job they would have is to evacuate you from a plane if it was to have an accident. Trust me, FAA IATA and other regulators will soon meet lobbyist and some of these "requirements" will be revised. @ArrestedDev, the good thing with contract employees is when a company realizes that the wages next year will be unsustainable, they either do away with the expensive workers and bring in trainees or, minimize the workforce. I agree with both of you to large extent but it is still a long way to go. Even in developed countries it has not worked as earlier anticipated. Supermarket self check outs is an example, majority of the pensioners shun it totally as they are either not technology savvy or do not like it at all. A big percentage of the airline sales still comes from the travel agencies. The booking engines have gained popularity but due to security issues, the uptake has slowed significantly. KQ for instance, do not allow booking from several booking websites as most does not meet the minimum security measures. Booking websites? These websites give you the various ticket options and once you choose the site takes you to KQs website, that's where you book. The human beings at the airport checking your ticket, visa and health card will be there for years to come, thanks to terrorism. These are immigration officials employed by KAA or GOK not airlines. The only person employed by KQ would be the person login your ticket number on their computer to verify if its valid. Kiosk are becoming very popular and uptake will significantly decrease the number of employees on the ground Use of autopilot sometimes is restricted by faults and manual piloting is necessary. Infact, the fly by wire has received its share of criticism that it is compromising the quality of pilots leading to a surge in accidents. AF 447 for instance, the two young pilots at the cockpit failed to control it totally. Trainees alone wont get the job done. Experience in aviation is very key. How much training do you need to push a cart and hand over a meal? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,916
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ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:maka wrote:My very good friend has been given an awesome offer by Qatar...interesting thing is he turned it down till manenos stabilise at KQ The offer is good on paper. Your friend took the best decision. Cost of living is very high, very hot, shifts at crazy hours, visa and so many other restrictions,etc. Substandtiate the above with real life figures. I am speaking from a knowledge point. Even world class health care is not there in Qatar in public hospitals where Qatar Airways employees are expected to go for treatment, they are trying to develop it but they lack professionals. The work load is crazy due to the massive expansion. Check numbeo, it gives a clue of what you expect. If you like alcohol then you need a licence from the employer and you buy a limited no. of bottles from a single distributor. Alcohol testing especially on Monday morning carried out without notice. Restrictions ni kibao. https://www.numbeo.com/c...enya&country2=Qatar
So anybody can EDIT the numbeo site? Did ypur friend talk with a friend already residing there ama he used this @numbeo site to make his decision? Thanks. Yes, can be edited but still gives a glimpse of what to expect. There are so many things that will piss you off there. Your ugali is not there unless you carry your maize flour every time you come home. If you are not used to chicken biryani then do not leave. You need a leave out to exit so you have to chase your Indian manager to approve your weekend off/ leave and due to high staff attrition levels getting released even for a weekend off is not easy. I can go on and on. @maka's friend and not me. You cant NYS, you cant Trump, You cant Wamunyota, you cant house party etc In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/18/2014 Posts: 1,127
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VituVingiSana wrote:Bottomline: KQ's operational and financial performance is going from bad to worse. Let's wait for the detailed 1H numbers. Then the 2H numbers. Another loss is possible for 2H. The hole get deeper and deeper.
Warren Buffett:
“We select such investments on a long-term basis, weighing the same factors as would be involved in the purchase of 100% of an operating business:
(1) favorable long-term economic characteristics;
(2) competent and honest management;
(3) purchase price attractive when measured against the yardstick of value to a private owner; and
(4) an industry with which we are familiar and whose long-term business characteristics we feel competent to judge.”
Does KQ meet:
(1) Perhaps but there's a lot of competition.
(2) No
(3) No [Huge levels of debt. Negative Equity]
(4) N/A but Buffett doesn't like airlines as a business. Number one is a particular favorite of mine coz companies that would otherwise qualify as solid firms get thrown under the bus. In the NSE, NMG and standard group come to mind. If a company comes up short on this threshold, I don't even bother with further analysis. The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,707 Location: nairobi
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obiero wrote:Spikes wrote:http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/No-bailout-for-KQ-until-executives-exit--Duale-says/539550-3416670-tya3nq/index.html
This useless bugger called Duale.. Meanwhile @spikes promised wazua of a massive drop today but we close at KES 4.55 being close to 4% jump in one day.. The share still trades on low value with fair value starting at KES 8 with ceiling being latest issue price of KES 14.. KES 12 can be used to lighten exposure to the faint of heart Up 2.2% today to close on a 4month high of KES 4.95.. Tomorrow KES 5 shall be tested.. Patience pays, my money dance has started
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; KQ 544,100 ABP 7.15; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/18/2014 Posts: 1,127
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VituVingiSana wrote:Kenyan firms need to automate whatever services they can to reduce labor costs. That's the reality.
I watched a documentary of a US car manufacturing plant, in the US, where they hire "cheaper" labor (vs the old union pay scales) and the plant is highly automated. Some sections are fully automated i.e. robots do all the functions. The "humans" are involved in monitoring what the robots are doing.
One scene was really neat. The entire shell/body of the car is dipped in an anti-corrosive bath, to evenly coat the car's body, by a mechanical arm. The whole process didn't even take 30 secs!
As @murchr said, it will not be long until the need for "flight attendants" is reduced further. LCCs are increasing the use of "ordering" screens for food/drinks so no-one comes by to ask if you want to buy a soda or sandwich. Frankly, do you need a flight attendant to show you how to put on your seatbelt?
The 787s need only 2 pilots vs the 3 (pilots/engineers) that were present in older planes. Apparently, the plane can take off, fly and land using the on-board computer. Disruption is real. I may have seen the same documentary. The disruption caused by technology has already achieved escape velocity aka expect corporate/industry behemoths to be turned on their heads in increasingly less time going forward. The next five years will be different in more ways than one. Many traditional industries will undergo complete makeovers. Furthermore, this particular disruption phase cuts across board and almost no sector will be spared. This again fits perfectly into the deflationary cycle that is ravaging most of the developed world. France will be a good benchmark due to their excessively restrictive labor laws. Same to China as they transition from a manufacturing hub to a more service oriented economy. Expect huge riots in especially China as the workforce gets trimmed drastically. In KE, banks have been some of the biggest if not the biggest employers over the last ten years or so. The wage bill will be the obvious target as banks seek to lower their CTI's. For media companies the writing is on the wall. Failure to adopt/harness technological advantages/competitive edge will be a death wish in the not so distant future. The biggest disruption perhaps may come in the substitution of oil as the fulcrum/lubricant of human activity. The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/20/2015 Posts: 2,811 Location: Mombasa
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obiero wrote:obiero wrote:Spikes wrote:http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/No-bailout-for-KQ-until-executives-exit--Duale-says/539550-3416670-tya3nq/index.html
This useless bugger called Duale.. Meanwhile @spikes promised wazua of a massive drop today but we close at KES 4.55 being close to 4% jump in one day.. The share still trades on low value with fair value starting at KES 8 with ceiling being latest issue price of KES 14.. KES 12 can be used to lighten exposure to the faint of heart Up 2.2% today to close on a 4month high of KES 4.95.. Tomorrow KES 5 shall be tested.. Patience pays, my money dance has started We need to ask hard questions:who is exactly buying? Is the rally reliable? Will it end smoothly? or it is another Transcentury trading on high volatility ? Be careful dealing with high beta stocks! John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,707 Location: nairobi
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Spikes wrote:obiero wrote:obiero wrote:Spikes wrote:http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/No-bailout-for-KQ-until-executives-exit--Duale-says/539550-3416670-tya3nq/index.html
This useless bugger called Duale.. Meanwhile @spikes promised wazua of a massive drop today but we close at KES 4.55 being close to 4% jump in one day.. The share still trades on low value with fair value starting at KES 8 with ceiling being latest issue price of KES 14.. KES 12 can be used to lighten exposure to the faint of heart Up 2.2% today to close on a 4month high of KES 4.95.. Tomorrow KES 5 shall be tested.. Patience pays, my money dance has started We need to ask hard questions:who is exactly buying? Is the rally reliable? Will it end smoothly? or it is another Transcentury trading on high volatility ? Be careful dealing with high beta stocks! Those kind of questions are the kind that keep most Africans poor
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; KQ 544,100 ABP 7.15; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/10/2014 Posts: 986 Location: Kenya
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So i just read Sportpesa to replace KQ as Kenya 7s sponsors.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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nzalela wrote:
Strike may not happen tomorrow. KALPA willing to give gava time to restructure board and management. So strike delayed to a later date.
Deferred for 10 days if am not wrong... possunt quia posse videntur
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