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Law Capping interest rates
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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obiero wrote:penkon wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:kizee1 wrote:streetwise wrote:The banks are in denial, they need to include in their announcement the words , for exiting and new loans.
watch this space,,, can the law apply retrospectively? isn't that against the constitution Court of Appeal stated in the decision of *Benjoh Amalgamated Limited & another v Kenya Commercial Bank Limited [2014] eKLR* "A constitution looks forward and backward, vertically and horizontally, as it seeks to re-engineer the social order. In this way, a constitution may and does embody retrospective provisions or provisions with retrospective ingredients. However, in interpreting the constitution to determine whether it countenances retrospective application of any of its provisions, a court of law must pay due regard to the language of the constitution. If the words used in a particular provision are forward looking and do not contain even a whiff of retrospectivity, the court ought not to import it into the language of the constitution. Such caution is even more necessary if the importation of restrospectivity would have the effect of divesting an individual of their rights which had legitimately become vested before the commencement of the constitution.” Dated and delivered at Nairobi this 20th day of June 2014. *G. B. M. KARIUKI SC* *D. K. MUSINGA* *W. OUKO* JUDGES OF APPEAL So, what does this say in laywoman language banks are legal entities like u n me. you can not compel them to make losses on past commitments because of ur recently acquired wisdom. at best part performance would suffice willingly. ie payoff, renegotiate or naturally the contract remains in full force. who will u be benefiting in looking backwards and who would u be reinvesting their rights in so doing. the bank or the borrower? but you have the liberty to legally divorce if you found a sweeter gachungwa as long as the other spouse consents. 'CFC Stanbic has becomes one of the first bank to cut rates for existing loans following the move by President Uhuru Kenyatta to sign the Bill capping interest rates on bank loans into law.:d/ ' That move is daring but not supported by wisdom Wisest move to make for now. my uncles advice to my brother has always been, if you happen to quarrel your wife, chapa yenye ukimpeleka kwa kitanda or another man is waylaying on her. how else would CFC keep the sore wife home than to lead her to bed again than wait and loose her. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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muandiwambeu wrote:obiero wrote:penkon wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:kizee1 wrote:streetwise wrote:The banks are in denial, they need to include in their announcement the words , for exiting and new loans.
watch this space,,, can the law apply retrospectively? isn't that against the constitution Court of Appeal stated in the decision of *Benjoh Amalgamated Limited & another v Kenya Commercial Bank Limited [2014] eKLR* "A constitution looks forward and backward, vertically and horizontally, as it seeks to re-engineer the social order. In this way, a constitution may and does embody retrospective provisions or provisions with retrospective ingredients. However, in interpreting the constitution to determine whether it countenances retrospective application of any of its provisions, a court of law must pay due regard to the language of the constitution. If the words used in a particular provision are forward looking and do not contain even a whiff of retrospectivity, the court ought not to import it into the language of the constitution. Such caution is even more necessary if the importation of restrospectivity would have the effect of divesting an individual of their rights which had legitimately become vested before the commencement of the constitution.” Dated and delivered at Nairobi this 20th day of June 2014. *G. B. M. KARIUKI SC* *D. K. MUSINGA* *W. OUKO* JUDGES OF APPEAL So, what does this say in laywoman language banks are legal entities like u n me. you can not compel them to make losses on past commitments because of ur recently acquired wisdom. at best part performance would suffice willingly. ie payoff, renegotiate or naturally the contract remains in full force. who will u be benefiting in looking backwards and who would u be reinvesting their rights in so doing. the bank or the borrower? but you have the liberty to legally divorce if you found a sweeter gachungwa as long as the other spouse consents. 'CFC Stanbic has becomes one of the first bank to cut rates for existing loans following the move by President Uhuru Kenyatta to sign the Bill capping interest rates on bank loans into law.:d/ ' That move is daring but not supported by wisdom Wisest move to make for now. my uncles advice to my brother has always been, if you happen to quarrel your wife, chapa yenye ukimpeleka kwa kitanda or another man is waylaying on her. how else would CFC keep the sore wife home than to lead her to bed again than wait and loose her. Interest rates on all loans , past and present will come down. Banks are just buying time to squeeze a few extra coins from wanjiku before the guillotine comes down. Variable interest rates are just plain English. They vary when things change.The legal environment has changed, too bad for the banks but they must comply. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/10/2014 Posts: 969 Location: Kenya
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Ericsson wrote:@newfarer Billions in profits will still be made. I was looking at citibank kenya half year results. Interest on government securities is more than twice interest on loans and advances. Customer deposits is sh.62bn, loans and advances to customers sh.31bn investment in government securities sh.42bn Profit before tax is at ksh.3bn Number of branches in kenya is 2; one in Nairobi and the other in mombasa. Banks will still rake in billions so long as GOK is borrowing aimlessly
Even Equity had almost half of their new loan portfolio this year in govt securities.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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watesh wrote:Ericsson wrote:@newfarer Billions in profits will still be made. I was looking at citibank kenya half year results. Interest on government securities is more than twice interest on loans and advances. Customer deposits is sh.62bn, loans and advances to customers sh.31bn investment in government securities sh.42bn Profit before tax is at ksh.3bn Number of branches in kenya is 2; one in Nairobi and the other in mombasa. Banks will still rake in billions so long as GOK is borrowing aimlessly
Even Equity had almost half of their new loan portfolio this year in govt securities. a cat in the purse. however, more than 50% is interest income. that's significant exposure. could you roll out the figures including coop, CFC, dtb n I&m ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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Ericsson wrote:@newfarer Billions in profits will still be made. I was looking at citibank kenya half year results. Interest on government securities is more than twice interest on loans and advances. Customer deposits is sh.62bn, loans and advances to customers sh.31bn investment in government securities sh.42bn Profit before tax is at ksh.3bn Number of branches in kenya is 2; one in Nairobi and the other in mombasa. Banks will still rake in billions so long as GOK is borrowing aimlessly
The effect of the new law on the highlighted wont be interesting. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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mwenza wrote:Ericsson wrote:@newfarer Billions in profits will still be made. I was looking at citibank kenya half year results. Interest on government securities is more than twice interest on loans and advances. Customer deposits is sh.62bn, loans and advances to customers sh.31bn investment in government securities sh.42bn Profit before tax is at ksh.3bn Number of branches in kenya is 2; one in Nairobi and the other in mombasa. Banks will still rake in billions so long as GOK is borrowing aimlessly
The effect of the new law on the highlighted wont be interesting. Citi pays almost NIL interest...wonder if their customers will allow that anymore... Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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watesh wrote:Ericsson wrote:@newfarer Billions in profits will still be made. I was looking at citibank kenya half year results. Interest on government securities is more than twice interest on loans and advances. Customer deposits is sh.62bn, loans and advances to customers sh.31bn investment in government securities sh.42bn Profit before tax is at ksh.3bn Number of branches in kenya is 2; one in Nairobi and the other in mombasa. Banks will still rake in billions so long as GOK is borrowing aimlessly
Even Equity had almost half of their new loan portfolio this year in govt securities. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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KulaRaha wrote:mwenza wrote:Ericsson wrote:@newfarer Billions in profits will still be made. I was looking at citibank kenya half year results. Interest on government securities is more than twice interest on loans and advances. Customer deposits is sh.62bn, loans and advances to customers sh.31bn investment in government securities sh.42bn Profit before tax is at ksh.3bn Number of branches in kenya is 2; one in Nairobi and the other in mombasa. Banks will still rake in billions so long as GOK is borrowing aimlessly
The effect of the new law on the highlighted wont be interesting. Citi pays almost NIL interest...wonder if their customers will allow that anymore... Citibank is an exlcusive corporate bank, they pay nil interest because their accounts are all current accounts. All their loans are syndicated maga deals and they mostly earn their income from trade banking. They could care less about interest rates "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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So now the stories are starting to change..ehhh? I thought last week if the bill was signed the world as we know it would die prematurely. The only guys complaining are the shareholders... Otherwise, for the rest of us, dunia ni ile ile. And we still won't buy shares who's revenues we know will take a hit over the next 6 months... Someone said that banks won't allow refinancing, today CFC is telling you to take that annoying high rate to their bank and they'll sort you out. mmhhhh...And you wonder why Kenyans just hate bankers. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:KulaRaha wrote:mwenza wrote:Ericsson wrote:@newfarer Billions in profits will still be made. I was looking at citibank kenya half year results. Interest on government securities is more than twice interest on loans and advances. Customer deposits is sh.62bn, loans and advances to customers sh.31bn investment in government securities sh.42bn Profit before tax is at ksh.3bn Number of branches in kenya is 2; one in Nairobi and the other in mombasa. Banks will still rake in billions so long as GOK is borrowing aimlessly
The effect of the new law on the highlighted wont be interesting. Citi pays almost NIL interest...wonder if their customers will allow that anymore... Citibank is an exlcusive corporate bank, they pay nil interest because their accounts are all current accounts. All their loans are syndicated maga deals and they mostly earn their income from trade banking. They could care less about interest rates That is total corporate world!!! Even personal accounts in there are also just absorbed because corporate background of the individual. Wananyonya the like's of Obiero's darling hedging moves !!!! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,503 Location: nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:KulaRaha wrote:mwenza wrote:Ericsson wrote:@newfarer Billions in profits will still be made. I was looking at citibank kenya half year results. Interest on government securities is more than twice interest on loans and advances. Customer deposits is sh.62bn, loans and advances to customers sh.31bn investment in government securities sh.42bn Profit before tax is at ksh.3bn Number of branches in kenya is 2; one in Nairobi and the other in mombasa. Banks will still rake in billions so long as GOK is borrowing aimlessly
The effect of the new law on the highlighted wont be interesting. Citi pays almost NIL interest...wonder if their customers will allow that anymore... Citibank is an exlcusive corporate bank, they pay nil interest because their accounts are all current accounts. All their loans are syndicated maga deals and they mostly earn their income from trade banking. They could care less about interest rates That is total corporate world!!! Even personal accounts in there are also just absorbed because corporate background of the individual. Wananyonya the like's of Obiero's darling hedging moves !!!! Wait... Umeniita darling?? HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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penkon wrote:quicksand wrote:Meeeh ... The sky is not going to fall. Interconnect rates got controlled,..then call rates dived from the 30s to 8 to 3 bob ..Telcos didn't die ..OK some did, but they weren't fit for purpose anyway. Fuel pricing regulation came and went....Kenya is still here. And now banks have to eat this law. Guess what? There will be some shocks, some corners will get the hair dryer treatment ...and then life will continue. I am bored to tears by all this scare mongering. I have been denied loans by some banks, then given loans by other banks...one bank's snobbery did not stop me from accomplishing what I intended. Stop theorizing and get busy. That's the spirit. Some banks are waking to this new reality and aligning their business, who are you to keep drumming it to our ears about some far-fetched apocalypse? Wait for the lectures from banking sector experts
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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guru267 wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Realtreaty wrote:Kenya Bank Cap = Brexit Sad Sad d'oh! d'oh! I feel we screwed ourselves. Majority of bank users are not borrowers but investors Uhuru protected these minority borrowers and forgot majority investors who have lost loads of investment. How much has the govt lost in the process? I do not know where to start in cleaning my house. When banks are infected the the virus spreads to other investment arms like Industrial, Agric, commercial etc Now its time Banks closed most of the offices thereby affecting the boom in housing. A balance must be sorted out soonest. If firms are getting cheaper loan, why would a company like Ketepa Kenya sell its third grade tea at that high cost? Why would property in land be such speculative and costly Everything will be coming down, even Education I can see Salaries dropping. Remember, Kenyans should not expect Salary reviews next year, in fact be ready for redundancies. Seriously ?? Back to reality. Co-op bank went on the offensive from Saturday by offering to buy loans from other banks. When customers started asking for loan statements from their banks to move to co-op, it was each man for himself. I have just received a message from KCB informing they have officially reduced their rates for new loans. They aren't waiting for the Gazette notice. And get this, they are waiting for CBK to advise on how to handle existing loans. The two largest banks in kenya have implemented the law. Does it matter what sidian does ? Let's drop the scare-mongering. It was never going to work and am glad some of us have been Sat by as much from kitabo. It is the "experts" who have been warning us of a major credit squeeze that we should be worried about. Have you or any one of those unsecured borrowers you know tried to apply for these loans at 14.5% p.a?? Coop was merely pulling a PR stunt that clearly got Wanjiku excited but the only ones who will get credit committee approval for their loan applications at 14.5% p.a. are only those who meet certain criteria. Hi @guru267. I had not replied to your question because I was waiting for facts. This morning, co-op bank has disbursed a loan of 200,000 secured by household chatters @0.8% p.m. Previously it was 2% p.m. This is someone I know. Bottom line, it's not PR. I know it's not my business to advise you in your area of expertise, but on this matter of capping rates, most experts got it wrong.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:[quote=Angelica _ann][quote=Obi 1 Kanobi][quote=KulaRaha][quote=mwenza][quote=Ericsson]@newfarer
Wait... Umeniita darling?? .....I think we should cap other INTERESTs too OAN, now that CFC has reduced interest on existing loans, does/doesn't this open up the other banks to litigation? ...Over to Maka and species. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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FRM2011 wrote:guru267 wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Realtreaty wrote:Kenya Bank Cap = Brexit Sad Sad d'oh! d'oh! I feel we screwed ourselves. Majority of bank users are not borrowers but investors Uhuru protected these minority borrowers and forgot majority investors who have lost loads of investment. How much has the govt lost in the process? I do not know where to start in cleaning my house. When banks are infected the the virus spreads to other investment arms like Industrial, Agric, commercial etc Now its time Banks closed most of the offices thereby affecting the boom in housing. A balance must be sorted out soonest. If firms are getting cheaper loan, why would a company like Ketepa Kenya sell its third grade tea at that high cost? Why would property in land be such speculative and costly Everything will be coming down, even Education I can see Salaries dropping. Remember, Kenyans should not expect Salary reviews next year, in fact be ready for redundancies. Seriously ?? Back to reality. Co-op bank went on the offensive from Saturday by offering to buy loans from other banks. When customers started asking for loan statements from their banks to move to co-op, it was each man for himself. I have just received a message from KCB informing they have officially reduced their rates for new loans. They aren't waiting for the Gazette notice. And get this, they are waiting for CBK to advise on how to handle existing loans. The two largest banks in kenya have implemented the law. Does it matter what sidian does ? Let's drop the scare-mongering. It was never going to work and am glad some of us have been Sat by as much from kitabo. It is the "experts" who have been warning us of a major credit squeeze that we should be worried about. Have you or any one of those unsecured borrowers you know tried to apply for these loans at 14.5% p.a?? Coop was merely pulling a PR stunt that clearly got Wanjiku excited but the only ones who will get credit committee approval for their loan applications at 14.5% p.a. are only those who meet certain criteria. Hi @guru267. I had not replied to your question because I was waiting for facts. This morning, co-op bank has disbursed a loan of 200,000 secured by household chatters @0.8% p.m. Previously it was 2% p.m. This is someone I know. Bottom line, it's not PR. I know it's not my business to advise you in your area of expertise, but on this matter of capping rates, most experts got it wrong. IOUN, What kind of friends does your friend have? His friends can't give him a loan for 200K surely! If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/17/2007 Posts: 294
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Lolest! wrote:penkon wrote:quicksand wrote:Meeeh ... The sky is not going to fall. Interconnect rates got controlled,..then call rates dived from the 30s to 8 to 3 bob ..Telcos didn't die ..OK some did, but they weren't fit for purpose anyway. Fuel pricing regulation came and went....Kenya is still here. And now banks have to eat this law. Guess what? There will be some shocks, some corners will get the hair dryer treatment ...and then life will continue. I am bored to tears by all this scare mongering. I have been denied loans by some banks, then given loans by other banks...one bank's snobbery did not stop me from accomplishing what I intended. Stop theorizing and get busy. That's the spirit. Some banks are waking to this new reality and aligning their business, who are you to keep drumming it to our ears about some far-fetched apocalypse? Wait for the lectures from banking sector experts Jidanganye tu. unlike in the above cases where people tend to consume more product when prices are slashed, loans are a different ball game. unless they can double their loan books in 2 yrs they are finished
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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instinct wrote:Lolest! wrote:penkon wrote:quicksand wrote:Meeeh ... The sky is not going to fall. Interconnect rates got controlled,..then call rates dived from the 30s to 8 to 3 bob ..Telcos didn't die ..OK some did, but they weren't fit for purpose anyway. Fuel pricing regulation came and went....Kenya is still here. And now banks have to eat this law. Guess what? There will be some shocks, some corners will get the hair dryer treatment ...and then life will continue. I am bored to tears by all this scare mongering. I have been denied loans by some banks, then given loans by other banks...one bank's snobbery did not stop me from accomplishing what I intended. Stop theorizing and get busy. That's the spirit. Some banks are waking to this new reality and aligning their business, who are you to keep drumming it to our ears about some far-fetched apocalypse? Wait for the lectures from banking sector experts Jidanganye tu. unlike in the above cases where people tend to consume more product when prices are slashed, loans are a different ball game. unless they can double their loan books in 2 yrs they are finished eti century mbili, by end of the coming half, Kuku manyoya sitakukuwa simenyolewa. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/13/2010 Posts: 160 Location: rift Valley-Naks
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instinct wrote:Lolest! wrote:penkon wrote:quicksand wrote:Meeeh ... The sky is not going to fall. Interconnect rates got controlled,..then call rates dived from the 30s to 8 to 3 bob ..Telcos didn't die ..OK some did, but they weren't fit for purpose anyway. Fuel pricing regulation came and went....Kenya is still here. And now banks have to eat this law. Guess what? There will be some shocks, some corners will get the hair dryer treatment ...and then life will continue. I am bored to tears by all this scare mongering. I have been denied loans by some banks, then given loans by other banks...one bank's snobbery did not stop me from accomplishing what I intended. Stop theorizing and get busy. That's the spirit. Some banks are waking to this new reality and aligning their business, who are you to keep drumming it to our ears about some far-fetched apocalypse? Wait for the lectures from banking sector experts Jidanganye tu. unlike in the above cases where people tend to consume more product when prices are slashed, loans are a different ball game. unless they can double their loan books in 2 yrs they are finished How about the tax man? We are likely to see reduced revenues collection and the end result, more borrowing. ''i can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies,but not the madness of people''-Isaac Newton
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/5/2014 Posts: 47
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alma1 wrote:So now the stories are starting to change..ehhh?
I thought last week if the bill was signed the world as we know it would die prematurely.
The only guys complaining are the shareholders...
Otherwise, for the rest of us, dunia ni ile ile. And we still won't buy shares who's revenues we know will take a hit over the next 6 months...
Someone said that banks won't allow refinancing, today CFC is telling you to take that annoying high rate to their bank and they'll sort you out.
mmhhhh...And you wonder why Kenyans just hate bankers. CFC and KCB have even offered to refinance/ buyout existing loans. BBK are adjusting their deposit rates in compliance with the new law. Where is the Doomsday Brigade? Last week, they were bleating about economic Armageddon.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
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Quote:Banking Industry Commitment to Pass on Benefits to Existing Customers
Nairobi, 31 August 2016:
Over the past weeks, amendments to the Banking Act have been widely debated by politicians, banking experts, the public, consumer groups and in the media. The voice of Kenyans has come out strongly that banks need to better serve their customers and pass on the benefit of enhanced efficiencies to borrowers and depositors. We appreciate this sentiment and are committed to win back the trust of the banking public by meeting their expectations.
Since His Excellency President Uhuru Kenyatta signed the Bill to control interest rates, we immediately initiated processes to pass on the lower rates to borrowers. As we await the gazettement of the legislation and operationalisation by the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK), we agree that all new loans will be at no more than four percent over the base rate set and published by CBK. Moreover, member banks will review their operations so as to adjust to the new minimum rate requirements for interest earning accounts. The public and the Government have made it clear that they expect banks to as soon as possible provide people and businesses with access to lower cost finance and more competitive deposit rates. While the industry awaits Central Bank of Kenya regulations that include direction on the determination of the base rate that the industry will use, the KBA members believe that the spirit of the law was and should be to pass these benefits to existing bank customers. Consequently, the KBA wishes to announce that its members have agreed to prospectively reprice existing loans, which will see existing customers enjoy the benefits of the new law once it is operationalised. Each KBA member bank will therefore notify their customers on the process and new terms as the industry engages with CBK on the implementation. We have listened carefully to all the opinions expressed by the different stakeholders in the debate leading to the assenting of this law, and we are committed to implement both the spirit of the law and the substance thereof, as well as meet all the commitments outlined in our 10th August 2016 Memorandum of Understanding presented to the Central Bank of Kenya. In complying with the law, we will work to minimise any unintended negative consequences on the broader economy, such as a reversal of the positive strides made towards financial inclusion through certain groups of people and SMEs being excluded from access to banking services. Our member banks will also work to enhance their lending practices and customer service standards to ensure that customers are better served and informed about their financial options. Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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