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Semenya allowed to compete as a woman by IAAF
Impunity
#41 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 4:47:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
masukuma wrote:
Impunity wrote:
How can one have a functional plug and a socket in one body and in one area?
I would really like to know.

lol... you guys never heard of 'hermaphroditism'? Kwani ni shule gani hizi mulienda? I knew about these conditions in primary school!! Ask for your fees back!
Hebu ona picha hapa. It does not have to be "functional" but it's there... Someone actually said Hitler had a micropenis d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! No wonder alisumbua watu hivyo! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Now that @semenya has both plug and socket and she married a 100% lady so we can assume that her d*ck is more formed than her airport so she actually lands the wife?
Then if so, why cant she be called a man instead and let runthe male track events?
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sitaki.kujulikana
#42 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 4:48:51 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Alba wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Alba wrote:
IAAF chair Sebastian Coe has announced that IAAF will be presenting their case to the court of arbitration again so that Caster, Niyonsaba, Wambui et al and maybe even Dafne Schippers are forced to compete against men and not women.

Peronally Im worried about the possibility that a hypo androgenic type may enter boxing and bash another woman into a coma


There are also suggestions that males with high levels of testorone should not be allowed to compete with normal males.


UR missing the point. Its not about high testosterone. It has been scientifically proven that Caster is NOT a woman. In scientific terms an intersex person is neither male nor female. So what IAAF will be trying to argue at CAS is that Intersex people should compete against men.

why should they compete as men if they are not scientifically proven to be men ?
sitaki.kujulikana
#43 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 4:51:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
if gender is based on this tostostoron thing, then will those men who speak with sapurano and who do not have ndefu be allowed to compete in the women events
Alba
#44 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:25:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
Alba wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Alba wrote:
IAAF chair Sebastian Coe has announced that IAAF will be presenting their case to the court of arbitration again so that Caster, Niyonsaba, Wambui et al and maybe even Dafne Schippers are forced to compete against men and not women.

Peronally Im worried about the possibility that a hypo androgenic type may enter boxing and bash another woman into a coma


There are also suggestions that males with high levels of testorone should not be allowed to compete with normal males.


UR missing the point. Its not about high testosterone. It has been scientifically proven that Caster is NOT a woman. In scientific terms an intersex person is neither male nor female. So what IAAF will be trying to argue at CAS is that Intersex people should compete against men.

why should they compete as men if they are not scientifically proven to be men ?


Because they are stronger than women and it is unfair competition. Unfair not based on ability but based on the fact that the person does not fit into the proper gender designation.

It is the same reason people over 19 years old are no longer allowed to compete in Kenya schools competitions. If you are 19 and above you have to go compete with grown men. It used to be that schools used to be allowed to field players as old as 23 because they supposedly were still in form 4.

So Either IOC should make intesex athletes compete with men or IOC should create a new gender in their competitions for those who have been scientifically proven to be intersex.

I guarantee you that Semenya is not only faster but also stronger than many wazua men. Thats why I shudder at the thought of an intersex boxer fighting with women at the Olympics. She will pummel other female boxers into a coma.
Alba
#45 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:30:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
if gender is based on this tostostoron thing, then will those men who speak with sapurano and who do not have ndefu be allowed to compete in the women events


It should not be based on testosterone. That is the error IAAF made when they first presented their case to CAS. It is based on physical characteristics.

In this case, it has been reported that Caster Mokgadi has no uterus and no ovaries. Instead she has two internal and functional testes that did not drop.

Caster herself has always identified as male. Look at how she dresses. Growing up she only played boys games and was actually better than most boys at football. That means even her brain is male.

Finally let me add that I do not blame Caster Mokgadi for competing against women. It is her right that was granted by CAS. But I also support IAAF in their appeal to CAS.
sitaki.kujulikana
#46 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:32:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Alba wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
Alba wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Alba wrote:
IAAF chair Sebastian Coe has announced that IAAF will be presenting their case to the court of arbitration again so that Caster, Niyonsaba, Wambui et al and maybe even Dafne Schippers are forced to compete against men and not women.

Peronally Im worried about the possibility that a hypo androgenic type may enter boxing and bash another woman into a coma


There are also suggestions that males with high levels of testorone should not be allowed to compete with normal males.


UR missing the point. Its not about high testosterone. It has been scientifically proven that Caster is NOT a woman. In scientific terms an intersex person is neither male nor female. So what IAAF will be trying to argue at CAS is that Intersex people should compete against men.

why should they compete as men if they are not scientifically proven to be men ?


Because they are stronger than women and it is unfair competition. Unfair not based on ability but based on the fact that the person does not fit into the proper gender designation.

It is the same reason people over 19 years old are no longer allowed to compete in Kenya schools competitions. If you are 19 and above you have to go compete with grown men. It used to be that schools used to be allowed to field players as old as 23 because they supposedly were still in form 4.

So Either IOC should make intesex athletes compete with men or IOC should create a new gender in their competitions for those who have been scientifically proven to be intersex.

I guarantee you that Semenya is not only faster but also stronger than most wazua men. Thats why I shudder at the thought of an intersex boxer fighting with women at the Olympics. She will pummel other female boxers into a coma.

But Semenya's best time is still behind womens best time in 800m, actually I doubt she is in the top ten fastest 800m women list. that said, unless they come up with a different category it will still be unfair to those kind of people, I mean even if Semenya was to seriously dope, she would never come near the times posted by akina Rudisha or Amos
sitaki.kujulikana
#47 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:35:16 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Alba wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
if gender is based on this tostostoron thing, then will those men who speak with sapurano and who do not have ndefu be allowed to compete in the women events


It should not be based on testosterone. That is the error IAAF made when they first presented their case to CAS. It is based on physical characteristics.

In this case, it has been reported that Caster Mokgadi has no uterus and no ovaries. Instead she has two internal and functional testes that did not drop.

Caster herself has always identified as male. Look at how she dresses. Growing up she only played boys games and was actually better than most boys at football. That means even her brain is male.

Finally let me add that I do not blame Caster Mokgadi for competing against women. It is her right that was granted by CAS. But I also support IAAF in their appeal to CAS.

that is a murky area, if we depend on science to define gender then we might have some people with a penis competing as women, if we depend on social constructs defining gender then that will even be worse, since we will kick out all those tomboys.
and if we are to base it on physicality, then the likes of akina marrion jones will not qualify as women, ama we are looking at 'pretty' faces
Alba
#48 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:38:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:

But Semenya's best time is still behind womens best time in 800m, actually I doubt she is in the top ten fastest 800m women list. that said, unless they come up with a different category it will still be unfair to those kind of people, I mean even if Semenya was to seriously dope, she would never come near the times posted by akina Rudisha or Amos


Firstly I believe Semenya is capable of breaking the world record if she tried but she does not want to. She does the bare minimum it takes to win. If you look closely you see she is not even tired after running 1:55

I have never seen Semenya straining to the finish line or going all out. She is just coasting. I believe she is capable of 1:53 or below.

She has not made any attempts at the world record. A world record attempt usually is planned with a pacesetter to take you through the first lap in about 55 seconds or so.

Secondly the world record is held by another person who was probably intersex and was also probably on drugs (Jarmila Kratochilova). In fact most of the best 800m times were set during the era when Eastern European countries had state sponsored doping programs

This is Jarmila Kratochilova the world record holder

masukuma
#49 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:54:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Impunity wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Impunity wrote:
How can one have a functional plug and a socket in one body and in one area?
I would really like to know.

lol... you guys never heard of 'hermaphroditism'? Kwani ni shule gani hizi mulienda? I knew about these conditions in primary school!! Ask for your fees back!
Hebu ona picha hapa. It does not have to be "functional" but it's there... Someone actually said Hitler had a micropenis d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! No wonder alisumbua watu hivyo! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Now that @semenya has both plug and socket and she married a 100% lady so we can assume that her d*ck is more formed than her airport so she actually lands the wife?
Then if so, why cant she be called a man instead and let runthe male track events?

Wewe hujawahisikia wanawake wakioa wanawake? We can assume that she does not have a d*ck - it's not been claimed that she has it. she has internal stuff. Testes no womb e.t.c. that means the outside is feminine but the inside is not! And that's my point - what makes a man... MALE? is it the external stuff? is it internal? is it awareness? is it what they feel like?
She obviously identifies as a girl


There are no simple solutions to this... but as you are realising... it's not as straight forward as we thought it would be.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Alba
#50 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:02:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
masukuma wrote:
She obviously identifies as a girl


Semenya does not identify as a girl. That pic above was taken about 5 years ago when she was paid to appear on the magazine cover appearing feminine with lipstick et al. if you want to see the real caster then look at her wedding pics which someone posted above.

This is what Caster's father said in an interview back in 2009

"From the time she could walk, Caster only wanted to play with boys," Jacob Semenya tells the Daily Mail, "Her three elder sisters wore dresses, as little girls do, but Caster refused. She has never had a skirt, only trousers. I knew she was different to the others, and even now if you speak to her on the telephone you might mistake her for a man.

And thats why I said that even in her brain, she sees herself as a man.
Alba
#51 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:05:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:

that is a murky area, if we depend on science to define gender then we might have some people with a penis competing as women, if we depend on social constructs defining gender then that will even be worse, since we will kick out all those tomboys.
and if we are to base it on physicality, then the likes of akina marrion jones will not qualify as women, ama we are looking at 'pretty' faces


Lets not make judgments about people and what they look like. Let the scientists decide on a case by case basis. My take is that if a person is diagnosed as intersex then they should compete with men or have their own category.
hardwood
#52 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:16:38 PM
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Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
When she was born, and the doctors looked at her, she was declared female. Anything else is pang'ang'a. She is female.

Lolest!
#53 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:24:16 PM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
hardwood wrote:
When she was born, and the doctors looked at her, she was declared female. Anything else is pang'ang'a. She is female.


Are you siding with Audrey who argues that the presence or absence of the pendulum should not be a determinant of gender?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#54 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:29:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Alba wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:

But Semenya's best time is still behind womens best time in 800m, actually I doubt she is in the top ten fastest 800m women list. that said, unless they come up with a different category it will still be unfair to those kind of people, I mean even if Semenya was to seriously dope, she would never come near the times posted by akina Rudisha or Amos


Firstly I believe Semenya is capable of breaking the world record if she tried but she does not want to. She does the bare minimum it takes to win. If you look closely you see she is not even tired after running 1:55

I have never seen Semenya straining to the finish line or going all out. She is just coasting. I believe she is capable of 1:53 or below.

She has not made any attempts at the world record. A world record attempt usually is planned with a pacesetter to take you through the first lap in about 55 seconds or so.

Secondly the world record is held by another person who was probably intersex and was also probably on drugs (Jarmila Kratochilova). In fact most of the best 800m times were set during the era when Eastern European countries had state sponsored doping programs

This is Jarmila Kratochilova the world record holder


Wah! Huyu mpaka ana pendulum
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
masukuma
#55 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:29:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Alba wrote:
masukuma wrote:
She obviously identifies as a girl


Semenya does not identify as a girl. That pic above was taken about 5 years ago when she was paid to appear on the magazine cover appearing feminine with lipstick et al. if you want to see the real caster then look at her wedding pics which someone posted above.

This is what Caster's father said in an interview back in 2009

"From the time she could walk, Caster only wanted to play with boys," Jacob Semenya tells the Daily Mail, "Her three elder sisters wore dresses, as little girls do, but Caster refused. She has never had a skirt, only trousers. I knew she was different to the others, and even now if you speak to her on the telephone you might mistake her for a man.

And thats why I said that even in her brain, she sees herself as a man.

I don't think she identifies herself as a MAN - no, she identifies herself as a woman but has very masculine features. to know whether she identifies as a girl or not - ASK HER! She has never said she is a dude! Intersex is not as straight forward as we think... it's like 30 conditions... 30!!! and they sometimes occur in collabo. So i am not even sure how many permutations of intersex they are. Where I stand... niko na @hardwood, I say look at the external... and ask... WEWE NI MALE or FEMALE? ama chungulia nini iko huko chini... kama it's straight forward - weka in obvious categories. hii mambo ya internal this and internal that.. how does one know they are missing a womb when they are growing up and identifying as a girl? ama internal testes. Caster is female since she identifies as female (not that she acts as female but because she identifies as such). Akiambiwa aandike jina anaandika Caster... akiambiwa aandike Gender - anaweka 'FEMALE'. everything else is other people labling her as otherwise.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#56 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:34:59 PM
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Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
does anyone know about the case of Heidi Krieger of former east germany? - she(now He) was doped into maleness... lol
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
hardwood
#57 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:41:39 PM
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Joined: 7/28/2015
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Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
All male athletes have a bulge hapo kwa groin, but semenya is flat and has breasts. She's female.





hardwood
#58 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:48:29 PM
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Infact she even has a camel toe like Vera Sidika's. She's a woman.


kaka2za
#59 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:49:34 PM
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Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
hardwood wrote:
All male athletes have a bulge hapo kwa groin, but semenya is flat and has breasts. She's female.







hakuna nyonyo,those are moobs
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
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hardwood
#60 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:58:01 PM
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Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
kaka2za wrote:


hakuna nyonyo,those are moobs


This is a woman you can eat the whole night. I can see lots of bread.

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