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Juba...coup attempt in South Sudan?
kaka2za
#231 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 8:05:18 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
South Sudan should be annexed to Sudan and ruled from Khartoum for the next 50yrs, hoping that by that time they will be capable of ruling themselves.

why? what they are going through is an important part of human development and nation building. Just because Kenya dodged that bullet does not civil war is an exception. Civil war is more a rule than an exception. But I see the narrative of "if they haven't figured it out in 5 years" they should cede control to a bunch of different looking guy - who know better than them". Oh... Wakoloni should have stayed for 50 more years - who told you wakoloni were here for us? Who told you the Arabs from the north were there for the south sudanese people? Let them figure it out on their own... they have been dealt some cards let them play them. Today is not the final age of humanity., the pen that is writing history is not out of ink...not yet.. we are not getting marked tomorrow! life moves on... ticks on!! We are not the goal, the culmination of all our predecessors commissions and omissions - we are predecessors to others who have their own lives to live. Let S.S. figure it out.

for wakoloni in kenya I think it would have worked better if they had stayed on for exactly another 15 years,
For south sudan I think its only prudent to split the country up again into 3 or even more, let those who wish to join together do so, but give each region their independence.


Zimbabwe was colonised as late 1980 and it is no doubt one of the greatest nations in Africa.
So much about prolonged colonialism;
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
hardwood
#232 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 9:03:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
kaka2za wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
South Sudan should be annexed to Sudan and ruled from Khartoum for the next 50yrs, hoping that by that time they will be capable of ruling themselves.

why? what they are going through is an important part of human development and nation building. Just because Kenya dodged that bullet does not civil war is an exception. Civil war is more a rule than an exception. But I see the narrative of "if they haven't figured it out in 5 years" they should cede control to a bunch of different looking guy - who know better than them". Oh... Wakoloni should have stayed for 50 more years - who told you wakoloni were here for us? Who told you the Arabs from the north were there for the south sudanese people? Let them figure it out on their own... they have been dealt some cards let them play them. Today is not the final age of humanity., the pen that is writing history is not out of ink...not yet.. we are not getting marked tomorrow! life moves on... ticks on!! We are not the goal, the culmination of all our predecessors commissions and omissions - we are predecessors to others who have their own lives to live. Let S.S. figure it out.

for wakoloni in kenya I think it would have worked better if they had stayed on for exactly another 15 years,
For south sudan I think its only prudent to split the country up again into 3 or even more, let those who wish to join together do so, but give each region their independence.


Zimbabwe was colonised as late 1980 and it is no doubt one of the greatest nations in Africa.
So much about prolonged colonialism;


Zimbabweans got independence but nothing changed and the whites continued owning all the land and farming as usual using the blacks for cheap labour. Basically they had got independence but nothing had changed on the ground. Then Mugabe told the blacks, "I will take the land from your white masters and give it to you so that you can farm it as land owners and not as squatters as you have done for ages. And infact the land belonged to you before the white man took it from you". Then the west imposed sanctions since Mugabe had disposessed their white descendants off their land and given it back to the original black owners. The west killed the Zimbabwean currency but Mugabe being a genius adopted the US dollar as the zim currency and brought things under control. The US was unable to devalue the US dollars circulating in zimbabwe.
The fact is that a black Zimbabwean is better off tilling his own 5acres to earn a living than toiling on a mzungus 10,000 acre estate in a "prosperous white controlled zimbabwe" while being a squatter and being paid slave wages. I have a lot of respect for Mugabe for empowering his people. Infact he said he wouldn't pay for land that had been stolen from Africans. Someone can't steal your car and then tell you that you must pay (to compensate the thief) for you to get it back.
enyands
#233 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 9:36:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
hardwood wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
South Sudan should be annexed to Sudan and ruled from Khartoum for the next 50yrs, hoping that by that time they will be capable of ruling themselves.

why? what they are going through is an important part of human development and nation building. Just because Kenya dodged that bullet does not civil war is an exception. Civil war is more a rule than an exception. But I see the narrative of "if they haven't figured it out in 5 years" they should cede control to a bunch of different looking guy - who know better than them". Oh... Wakoloni should have stayed for 50 more years - who told you wakoloni were here for us? Who told you the Arabs from the north were there for the south sudanese people? Let them figure it out on their own... they have been dealt some cards let them play them. Today is not the final age of humanity., the pen that is writing history is not out of ink...not yet.. we are not getting marked tomorrow! life moves on... ticks on!! We are not the goal, the culmination of all our predecessors commissions and omissions - we are predecessors to others who have their own lives to live. Let S.S. figure it out.

for wakoloni in kenya I think it would have worked better if they had stayed on for exactly another 15 years,
For south sudan I think its only prudent to split the country up again into 3 or even more, let those who wish to join together do so, but give each region their independence.


Zimbabwe was colonised as late 1980 and it is no doubt one of the greatest nations in Africa.
So much about prolonged colonialism;


Zimbabweans got independence but nothing changed and the whites continued owning all the land and farming as usual using the blacks for cheap labour. Basically they had got independence but nothing had changed on the ground. Then Mugabe told the blacks, "I will take the land from your white masters and give it to you so that you can farm it as land owners and not as squatters as you have done for ages. And infact the land belonged to you before the white man took it from you". Then the west imposed sanctions since Mugabe had disposessed their white descendants off their land and given it back to the original black owners. The west killed the Zimbabwean currency but Mugabe being a genius adopted the US dollar as the zim currency and brought things under control. The US was unable to devalue the US dollars circulating in zimbabwe.
The fact is that a black Zimbabwean is better off tilling his own 5acres to earn a living than toiling on a mzungus 10,000 acre estate in a "prosperous white controlled zimbabwe" while being a squatter and being paid slave wages. I have a lot of respect for Mugabe for empowering his people. Infact he said he wouldn't pay for land that had been stolen from Africans. Someone can't steal your car and then tell you that you must pay (to compensate the thief) for you to get it back.


Wow for once we agree on something .hats off on you hardwood . At first I thought it was masukuma but I was wrong . Well stated and yes well put .
masukuma
#234 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 11:05:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
I think just as a child must fall while taking the first steps and gets back again - we must do the same in whatever circumstances we find ourselves as a nation or as cultures. Colonialism was not to our benefit. The tragedy of colonialism is that at a macrolevel everything looked nice and dandy. Zimbabwe, Namibia, Botswana types - but the truth is the mwafrika in that setting does not do much coz of the system. I dare say - Africans in SA are better off now than they were under mzungu! better off is a matter of perspective - having your future in your hands is fairly better than relaying on someone whose people made the same mistakes you will make and treats you as a sub human. Africans there may not have all they want but are better off. Prior to Mandela dying I visited SA and overheard some fishermen talking about how nothing really changed (perceivable) after 94, they looked at uncle bob and said - afadhali hao... shamba ni yao sasa - everything else can be worked on. in SA land ownership really didn't change. I am so happy mkoloni went when he did and allowed us to make the mistakes we did back then before social media times.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kaka2za
#235 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 9:10:54 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
Africa would have arguably been much better without colonialization.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
hardwood
#236 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 9:28:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
kaka2za wrote:
Africa would have arguably been much better without colonialization.


Ethiopia wasn't colonized. Is it much better?
kaka2za
#237 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:17:48 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
hardwood wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Africa would have arguably been much better without colonialization.


Ethiopia wasn't colonized. Is it much better?


It was affected by colonialization of its neighbours. No country exists in isolation.
And dont forget the cost of the war with the italians.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
enyands
#238 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:32:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Africa would have arguably been much better without colonialization.


Ethiopia wasn't colonized. Is it much better?


It was affected by colonialization of its neighbours. No country exists in isolation.
And dont forget the cost of the war with the italians.


Google a region called guinea Papua in Indonesia .that region wasn't colonised and has people of the same dark pigment as we do. They have nothing much and live on harvesting honey and bush meat. If you have Netflix search for documentary called pururambo or youtube it .colonialism helped bring light even though there are sad side of it but it lit up .
Even America was colonised by the same British and changed the life of native americans to "prosperity".
tycho
#239 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:40:26 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
enyands wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Africa would have arguably been much better without colonialization.


Ethiopia wasn't colonized. Is it much better?


It was affected by colonialization of its neighbours. No country exists in isolation.
And dont forget the cost of the war with the italians.


Google a region called guinea Papua in Indonesia .that region wasn't colonised and has people of the same dark pigment as we do. They have nothing much and live on harvesting honey and bush meat. If you have Netflix search for documentary called pururambo or youtube it .colonialism helped bring light even though there are sad side of it but it lit up .
Even America was colonised by the same British and changed the life of native americans to "prosperity".


How do you know these said people, 'have nothing much'?
kaka2za
#240 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:41:30 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
enyands wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Africa would have arguably been much better without colonialization.


Ethiopia wasn't colonized. Is it much better?


It was affected by colonialization of its neighbours. No country exists in isolation.
And dont forget the cost of the war with the italians.


Google a region called guinea Papua in Indonesia .that region wasn't colonised and has people of the same dark pigment as we do. They have nothing much and live on harvesting honey and bush meat. If you have Netflix search for documentary called pururambo or youtube it .colonialism helped bring light even though there are sad side of it but it lit up .
Even America was colonised by the same British and changed the life of native americans to "prosperity".


PNG is not in Indonesia. It is still 'colonized' by Australia.You know who is the Head of State of PNG? Queen Elizabeth!

Ati native americans prospered? They were virtually wiped out!
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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