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Will only christians enter the kingdom of heaven??
chepkel
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:19:34 PM
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Location: Nairobi
I have been reading older posts, more so the ones on Mavuno church. And i am just wondering. Now that the bible talks of Jesus as the gateway to God and only the ones who believe in him will enter the kingdom of Heaven, does this mean that non-Christians who are morally upright and try as much as possible to always do good but do not believe in Jesus will not go to heaven?

For example, a Muslim in the heart of Saudi Arabia, who has grown up knowing only Islam but living by his religion respecting other people and always doing good or a person who does not believe in God at all but one who is full of love for his neighbor, respects life and morality. Wont these people go to heaven??????
B.Timer
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:41:31 PM
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Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

Yours are pertinent questions.

If you or the next christian were born in Iran, they would almost certainly be Muslims.
Born in Chennai India Hindu!
Dunia ni msongamano..
chepkel
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:47:59 PM
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And so will i enter into heaven as a Hindu or Muslim r a good atheist???
Fundaah
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:06:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
A similar question

Were people saved before Christ?


Bible Answer: This question has bothered many compassionate Christians through the centuries. They rightly do not want to believe that God would cast everyone that was born before Christ into hell. That doesn’t seem fair!

They are right! Gen 18:25 says, “Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” God never judges righteous people in the same way that He judges the wicked. It is clear throughout the ages, that many people, prior to Christ birth, lived good lives. The question is: How did they live such good lives without Christ saving them? The answer: they could not without salvation. So how could Christ save people before His coming to die on the Cross?

Here is the answer: First of all, Christ birth was not the time that Christ existed. He has always existed, because He is God the Son; He just did not have a flesh and blood body prior to His birth. However, He is the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world (Rev 13:8). So before His birth, God credited Christ death as an “I owe you.” Just like you write down I owe you to someone, you promise that one day you will pay it. The same is true of God. Before Christ came to the earth, God promised all people that one day He will pay for their debt, and so he counted their debts paid even before Christ died.

So how did He save them without the Holy Spirit regenerating them? Remember, Christ is the wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24), and His wisdom has been available from the beginning of creation. By wisdom the LORD laid the earth's foundations (Prov 3:19). Jesus is the one who laid the earth’s foundations. Through him all things were made (John 1:3). Jesus, prior to His birth, existed in the form of the wisdom of God. When someone “found Jesus” they found “wisdom.” This wisdom enabled people to live righteous lives, just as the Holy Spirit gives us this ability. People’s noble lives proved that they had touched Christ in some way, or should I say, Christ touched them in some way.

The book of Proverbs is the book of Wisdom. I want you to notice that Solomon wrote nearly all the Proverbs, however, the last two chapters were written by two other men: Agur and King Lemuel. Search Israel’s biblical genealogy and you will notice that these two men are not mentioned in the Bible. A closer look at their names reveals that they were Gentiles and not Jews. How did Gentiles have a part in writing the Old Testament? Simple: wisdom is all inclusive. It belongs to all people who desire it.

Agur wrote: “I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One.” (Prov 30:3) This was his humble way of saying that he did not know God in the same way as the Jews. Then he adds: “Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son?” (Prov 30:4)

He did not know the name of God’s son, yet he had wisdom—enough that God would place his words in the Word of God. This shows you that non-Jews were saved outside of the Jewish system of sacrifices.

When I look in the past before Christ was born, I discover many religious leaders and philosophers that had the wisdom of God, and so I conclude that they were saved by Christ.

Consider Buddha: he lived 500 hundred years before Christ, yet he was enlightened by wisdom. Look at his eight-fold path and you will recognize much of the Sermon on the Mount. How did he get such truth before Christ was born? He received this truth simply because Christ came to him in the form of wisdom. Don’t misunderstand me: Buddha cannot save; only Christ can. I do not believe today's Buddhists are saved; only that if Buddha were alive today, he would be a Christian. The point is that I believe Christ saved Buddha and the evidence of his salvation was his wisdom. (Of course, only the Lord knows each heart, and He is the final Judge.)

We could say this about some philosophers like Aristotle and Plato. They often showed the spark of wisdom that could only come from Christ. In fact the early church fathers used their writings to confirm the truth of the gospel, and that was one way the western world accepted the gospel.

For those who want a clearer scripture to prove that non Jews were saved prior to Christ, then consider the words of our Lord: "The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here." (Matt 12:42) Jesus plainly considered the Queen of Sheba to be saved, or else how could she judge the generation of Christ? What was the evidence that she was saved? She came to hear the wisdom of God spoken through Solomon. There is no evidence in Scripture or in history to suggest that the queen ever became a Jew. Her hunger for wisdom confirmed her acceptance of Christ.

In conclusion, people prior to the birth of Christ were saved through Him by His wisdom. They were not saved in the sense of being born again and filled with the Spirit, but they were saved with the meaning of being forgiven by God. They did not enter heaven upon their death, because the way for heaven was not made available until Christ ascension, however they were in paradise (see Luke 16:19-31). During Christ ascension they were then carried into heaven with Him. That is where they are today—in heaven with Christ.



http://www.tbm.org/were_...saved_before_christ.htm
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
Mel Munyua
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 3:52:50 PM
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someone once told me man will be judged with or without the word. I cant imagine heaven without the Dalai Lama
masukuma
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:00:22 PM
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Its not by works...so being good does not help. thats why Jesus came coz it is impossible for sinful human beings to please God. Jesus Christ came to be an atonement for all SIN, he that was without sin died to purchase your pardon.
Human works, personality, charity are useless before God, they may hold some value on this planet but to God they are just petty works of a sinful creature.
if it were possible for man to redeem himself, Jesus would never have given up his place in Heaven for life on this planet.
so from my answer....they are going no where close to Heaven.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
muganda
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:16:06 PM
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@Fundaah Applause an area of strength evidently. But couldn't help picking out several references to 'everyone that was born before Christ'.

So I wondered can we put a timeframe to God's law... and also to guide @masukuma...


Romans 2:9-11 God's Judgement of man is impartial
There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.

Romans 2:12-15 God’s Judgment and the Law
For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

Fundaah
#8 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 6:56:37 AM
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Joined: 11/19/2008
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Muganda ...your two quotes from the bible are spot on....
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
Robinhood
#9 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 6:57:49 AM
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Joined: 12/11/2008
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Fundaah,

Good stuff
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
chepkel
#10 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 7:40:20 AM
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@all very interesting stuff
sheep
#11 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:02:11 AM
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@fundaah and muganda,

very true,Billy Graham tried to say these things but the amount of flak he received from the myopic churchy Christians was unbelievable.People said he denied Christ was the only way labelled him Antichrist.

However Jesus is the only guaranteed way.True Christians will never undergo the white throne judgement.Their judgement will be of their works but shall never be in danger of hell coz of the blood.
The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
radio
#12 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:17:20 AM
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Joined: 11/9/2009
Posts: 2,003
@all... Applause Applause Applause great discussion.

@muganda... pls clarify something for me... does this mean everyone will be judged by what the believe ie they are a law to themselves
muganda wrote:


Romans 2:12-15 God’s Judgment and the Law
.... For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

chepkel
#13 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:25:07 AM
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I agree with Muganda. I think we will all be judged according to what we believe. But then if at any one time we have doubts about what we believe then we must act on these doubts and try to seek the truth. If we do not act on finding a true path then we will be trouble.
Sheila
#14 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:37:06 AM
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Joined: 1/7/2010
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@Muganda

I agree with you completely.

I am a Christian but like someone pointed out earlier, if I was born in Saudi Arabia, I'd most likely be a Muslim. It therefore doesn't seem 'fair' that heaven will only be for those 'lucky' enough to have been born in primarily Christian countries.
gaza
#15 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:46:27 AM
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There is no kingdom...no heaven...hell is here. why worry yourself? just live and enjoy life. after you are dead, you decompose and that's it...from your fossils people get oil and life goes on until 2012.(earthquakes and volcanoes everywhere...plus other scientific evidence) so relax...stop torturing yourself, the world will do that for you very soon.
masukuma
#16 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 4:14:27 PM
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@chepkel, you could be believing in something that is sincerely wrong!! @Sheila, as much as it sounds bad...you know heaven is not for everyone . Its up to you who has heard the gospel to save your neck. God will know what to do with the rest of the poor souls born in Nepal or Tibet who has never heard the word.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
leona
#17 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 4:29:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/1/2008
Posts: 1,432
Location: Marsabit
And in as much as you hear and spread the gospel,live it! It makes no sense for one to hear the gospel,preach it,but live a totally different life all together. There's a verse somewhere in the bible that says 'Faith without action is dead'. Read your bible,Listen to the gospel..but MOST important of all,LIVE your life according to God's word.
Nevermind what haters say, ignore them til they fade away - Just live your life
the sage
#18 Posted : Friday, April 23, 2010 6:19:21 AM
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Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
@All, Gaza is right.

"If he is supreme, why does he allow evil to exist?"
"So that each man can make his choice"
"If I were a supreme deity, I wouldn't go to the trouble of creating
either evil man or anything at all that was not entirely pleasing to
me. I'm afraid when it comes to explaining your supreme deity, you're obliged to work backwards. Evil exists. You cannot explain why. So you turn your creator into an evil sportsman who plays games with human life. Will they or won't they be obedient? Shall I or shall I not torture them? Dear child, it's all too primitive."

Creation by Gore Vidal

A church is a place in which gentlemen who have never been to heaven brag about it to persons who will never get there.
H. L. Mencken



A church is a place in which gentlemen who have never been to heaven brag about it to persons who will never get there.
H. L. Mencken

Wendz
#19 Posted : Friday, April 23, 2010 7:36:57 AM
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Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
@Gaza & Sage

I would want to believe you but because you do not have something to prove there is no heaven just as i may not scientifically prove there is, i would rather live my life like there is heaven and be surprised that it is not there than live my life like it is not there, and get a rude shock when it actually turns out to be there(someone said)...

But i have my unanswered questions about this whole heaven issue.... the most important being, what will happen to our ancestors who died after Jesus but never knew of him and hence, their culture dictated that they sometimes did not live by the "law"... eg, they had to go raid other villages and in the process kill a few fellas but that was culture and their supreme being was ok with that.... just as the Muslim supreme being is ok with the holy war.
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