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High Cost of Projects Slowly Killing Kenyan Dream
enyands
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 5:51:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.



Sii hata mimi I quoted figures ya huko majuu through ngugool. Nipe hata mimi credit sparkly bwana jameni.
Othelo
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:05:56 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
sparkly wrote:
Treasury publishes budget estimates to last coin. They have also published debt sustainability reports. Budget estimates are scrutinized and passed by Parliament. Parliament approves the debt ceiling. Parliament approves budget appropriations. Office of Budget Controller makes sure money is spent for the right reasons. Auditor General provides audit oversight for all Gov levels. Private citizens are invited to make their presentations at all PFM levels.

If @limanika has credible concerns, he should quote numbers and even make his presentations to Treasury and Parliament.

@sparkly is right. Surprisingly this is well enshrined in the Constitution of Kenya 2010 and many of the acts of parliament guiding public expenditure and good governance in general. However, the Kenyans we are, we don't like following the law and this allows our crooked leaders to take advantage of us and continue eating while we lament endlessly.
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
MaichBlack
#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:16:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.

Shock!!! 1.04 Billion per kilometre the highest in Kenya and other countries!!!
Quote:
That the same contractor building the 28.6km Southern Bypass at Sh17 billion will spend the same amount to do the 16.5km Western Bypass — shorter by 12.1km — is hard to comprehend.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:23:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
@murchr - Don't fall for bullshit. The 17 Billion is due to China Road and Bridge Corporation. Are they going to compensate anyone for acquisitions??? These are just smoke screens to confuse the gullible.

This is pure theft!!! Period.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
sparkly
#25 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:47:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.



Sii hata mimi I quoted figures ya huko majuu through ngugool. Nipe hata mimi credit sparkly bwana jameni.


@enyands you are right my brother.
Life is short. Live passionately.
sparkly
#26 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:53:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
@maichblack you are seriously lacking in the decorum department. Reason why people do not waste their time responding to your posts.
Life is short. Live passionately.
enyands
#27 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:58:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
sparkly wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.



Sii hata mimi I quoted figures ya huko majuu through ngugool. Nipe hata mimi credit sparkly bwana jameni.


@enyands you are right my brother.



Sparkly sparkly Laughing out loudly do you see anything wrong with how contracts are being signed ama with you everything is ok ?just curious
MaichBlack
#28 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:00:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
sparkly wrote:
@maichblack you are seriously lacking in the decorum department. Reason why people do not waste their time responding to your posts.

What decorum are you talking about??? I think you should read my posts again.

When I talk about bullshit, I am talking about the stories by the government operatives not the wazuan!!! When a company quotes and is to be paid 17 Billion to build a road and then a government operative tells us the figure is high because it includes compensation to land owners and even quotes figures for the Bomas interchange, isn't that bullshit?? Since when did a contractors quote include compensation to land owners?? Since when did people get compensation from a foreign company for land acquired by the government?

But I understand why you as an individual may be annoyed by my posts. As I said yesterday, from your posts insinuating there is no corruption because the systems are "perfect", you must be part of the eating committee and therefore associated with the government/government operatives!!!

Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#29 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:07:25 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
@Sparkly - Click here.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#30 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:12:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.



Sii hata mimi I quoted figures ya huko majuu through ngugool. Nipe hata mimi credit sparkly bwana jameni.


@enyands you are right my brother.



Sparkly sparkly Laughing out loudly do you see anything wrong with how contracts are being signed ama with you everything is ok ?just curious

Just read his post# 7. Apparently everything is okay. There are structures that are working and corruption is just a figment of our own imagination. We should not even be discussing this because apparently there can be no corruption in Kenya with all this fabulous structures.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
mkeiy
#31 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:32:33 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.



Sii hata mimi I quoted figures ya huko majuu through ngugool. Nipe hata mimi credit sparkly bwana jameni.


@enyands you are right my brother.



Sparkly sparkly Laughing out loudly do you see anything wrong with how contracts are being signed ama with you everything is ok ?just curious

Just read his post# 7. Apparently everything is okay. There are structures that are working and corruption is just a figment of our own imagination. We should not even be discussing this because apparently there can be no corruption in Kenya with all this fabulous structures.


@MaichBlack &limanika

Leave them alone.

Its their time to wine,dine and f@&k with the establishment and coming here to laugh at us, mere mortals. So much for decorum.

They will be here [on earth], thousands and thousands of years, long after you and i have died from all this BULLSHIT.
MaichBlack
#32 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:40:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.



Sii hata mimi I quoted figures ya huko majuu through ngugool. Nipe hata mimi credit sparkly bwana jameni.


@enyands you are right my brother.



Sparkly sparkly Laughing out loudly do you see anything wrong with how contracts are being signed ama with you everything is ok ?just curious

Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#33 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:43:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
mkeiy wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.



Sii hata mimi I quoted figures ya huko majuu through ngugool. Nipe hata mimi credit sparkly bwana jameni.


@enyands you are right my brother.



Sparkly sparkly Laughing out loudly do you see anything wrong with how contracts are being signed ama with you everything is ok ?just curious

Just read his post# 7. Apparently everything is okay. There are structures that are working and corruption is just a figment of our own imagination. We should not even be discussing this because apparently there can be no corruption in Kenya with all this fabulous structures.


@MaichBlack &limanika

Leave them alone.

Its their time to wine,dine and f@&k with the establishment and coming here to laugh at us, mere mortals. So much for decorum.

They will be here [on earth], thousands and thousands of years, long after you and i have died from all this BULLSHIT.

True!

And that is what the former British ambassador called "vomiting on our shoes!!!".
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#34 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:27:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
limanika wrote:
That the high cost of projects in Kenya is likely to kill the Kenyan dream heading into the future is a question of when not if- that's if we keep burying our heads in the sand..e.g, the main reason why Rwanda and ug & Ss are reportedly pulling out of SGR is that they re simply unable to finance their portion of SGR...china's insistence that they use same contractor and same terms as keñya will just drive them away sooner than later. By the way its not a joke about changing geopolitics. ION ug is pulling out of somalia, anyone know the reason?,çoz changing realignmeants show ug will be less dependeñt on northern route heading into the future hence no major interests to secure the same. When we said cost of SGR is inflated, gok turned a deaf ear. Now, the high cost of projects- coz of financing kickbacks, campaigns and all thàt, likely to kill kenyan dream. IMHO, Kenya should ask china to let ug n rwanda source financiers and contractor for their portion of SGR otherwise we're done


While I agree with your statement in general, I miss the connection of how our internal inefficiencies including inflated project costs affect our neighbours.

I don't think Ug and Rwanda are obligated to jointly source for projects with Kenya, if we are expensive, they should feel free to get cheaper sources of funding to build their railways from Malaba/Busia to Kigali. They can also get an alternative contractor to build their portions of the SGR.

If we were delaying the projects or the projects were not technically compatible, I would understand the need to collaborate, lakini the matter of funding hapana.

On corruption in Kenya, it will definitely bankrupt us at some point, but in my opinion, I would rather we keep improving our infrastructure even if we are losing money to corruption because ultimately its still cheaper than doing nothing.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
sparkly
#35 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 4:33:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
MaichBlack wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
^^ @Maichblack and @limanika learn from @murchr and quote sources and figures.



Sii hata mimi I quoted figures ya huko majuu through ngugool. Nipe hata mimi credit sparkly bwana jameni.


@enyands you are right my brother.



Sparkly sparkly Laughing out loudly do you see anything wrong with how contracts are being signed ama with you everything is ok ?just curious

Just read his post# 7. Apparently everything is okay. There are structures that are working and corruption is just a figment of our own imagination. We should not even be discussing this because apparently there can be no corruption in Kenya with all this fabulous structures.

Can you quote me where i said this.
Life is short. Live passionately.
murchr
#36 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 5:44:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
There's so much ignorance exhibited by whiners here on Wazua.

1. Kenya is not in a joint financial agreement with RW or UG on the construction of the northern corridor. Every country is sourcing for financing and expertise individually.

2. RW has noted that Kenya is almost completing the first phase of the project while UG has not yet began its section (they have a JJ(RIP) who took the issue to court). When they spoke about it they mentioned that the Central corridor is cheaper than the Northern corridor but they are going ahead with both because of previous letdowns by the Tanzanian authorities - which include theft of "substantial quantities of high value export consignments, especially minerals, while in transit in Tanzania. The important thing is to understand that it is not a question of either one or the other. Both are desirable. It is simply a question of which gets built first, but that decision is not solely Rwanda’s to make. It depends largely on the priority similarly accorded to railway portions to Rwanda by the other partners."

3. On LAPSSET. UG was not a partner in the initial plan. The rail, road, pipeline was to begin in Lamu to Juba and Addis. From Juba it would proceed to CAR and on to the Atlantic. The strategy here was to create an in land corridor for transit of goods from the Indian Ocean to the Atlantic. M7 was not happy we had a thread here discussing the issue back in 2012 When the dynamic duo got in power, they tried to please M7 by including him in this plan. We'll, don't we all see why he was not included in the first place?

4. On "eating", who else can stop this culture if its not us? When the GOK says it wants to build a road passing through your house, dont inflate that cost.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
sparkly
#37 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 7:02:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
murchr wrote:
There's so much ignorance exhibited by whiners here on Wazua.

1. Kenya is not in a joint financial agreement with RW or UG on the construction of the northern corridor. Every country is sourcing for financing and expertise individually.

2. RW has noted that Kenya is almost completing the first phase of the project while UG has not yet began its section (they have a JJ(RIP) who took the issue to court). When they spoke about it they mentioned that the Central corridor is cheaper than the Northern corridor but they are going ahead with both because of previous letdowns by the Tanzanian authorities - which include theft of "substantial quantities of high value export consignments, especially minerals, while in transit in Tanzania. The important thing is to understand that it is not a question of either one or the other. Both are desirable. It is simply a question of which gets built first, but that decision is not solely Rwanda’s to make. It depends largely on the priority similarly accorded to railway portions to Rwanda by the other partners."

3. On LAPSSET. UG was not a partner in the initial plan. The rail, road, pipeline was to begin in Lamu to Juba and Addis. From Juba it would proceed to CAR and on to the Atlantic. The strategy here was to create an in land corridor for transit of goods from the Indian Ocean to the Atlantic. M7 was not happy we had a thread here discussing the issue back in 2012 When the dynamic duo got in power, they tried to please M7 by including him in this plan. We'll, don't we all see why he was not included in the first place?

4. On "eating", who else can stop this culture if its not us? When the GOK says it wants to build a road passing through your house, dont inflate that cost.


Thanks for clarifying
Life is short. Live passionately.
enyands
#38 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 7:05:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
murchr wrote:
There's so much ignorance exhibited by whiners here on Wazua.

1. Kenya is not in a joint financial agreement with RW or UG on the construction of the northern corridor. Every country is sourcing for financing and expertise individually.

2. RW has noted that Kenya is almost completing the first phase of the project while UG has not yet began its section (they have a JJ(RIP) who took the issue to court). When they spoke about it they mentioned that the Central corridor is cheaper than the Northern corridor but they are going ahead with both because of previous letdowns by the Tanzanian authorities - which include theft of "substantial quantities of high value export consignments, especially minerals, while in transit in Tanzania. The important thing is to understand that it is not a question of either one or the other. Both are desirable. It is simply a question of which gets built first, but that decision is not solely Rwanda’s to make. It depends largely on the priority similarly accorded to railway portions to Rwanda by the other partners."

3. On LAPSSET. UG was not a partner in the initial plan. The rail, road, pipeline was to begin in Lamu to Juba and Addis. From Juba it would proceed to CAR and on to the Atlantic. The strategy here was to create an in land corridor for transit of goods from the Indian Ocean to the Atlantic. M7 was not happy we had a thread here discussing the issue back in 2012 When the dynamic duo got in power, they tried to please M7 by including him in this plan. We'll, don't we all see why he was not included in the first place?

4. On "eating", who else can stop this culture if its not us? When the GOK says it wants to build a road passing through your house, dont inflate that cost.


Kukula is the thing .if we can stop hii Kukula,kenya would be like ivory coast in the 80's
limanika
#39 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 7:30:04 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
limanika wrote:
That the high cost of projects in Kenya is likely to kill the Kenyan dream heading into the future is a question of when not if- that's if we keep burying our heads in the sand..e.g, the main reason why Rwanda and ug & Ss are reportedly pulling out of SGR is that they re simply unable to finance their portion of SGR...china's insistence that they use same contractor and same terms as keñya will just drive them away sooner than later. By the way its not a joke about changing geopolitics. ION ug is pulling out of somalia, anyone know the reason?,çoz changing realignmeants show ug will be less dependeñt on northern route heading into the future hence no major interests to secure the same. When we said cost of SGR is inflated, gok turned a deaf ear. Now, the high cost of projects- coz of financing kickbacks, campaigns and all thàt, likely to kill kenyan dream. IMHO, Kenya should ask china to let ug n rwanda source financiers and contractor for their portion of SGR otherwise we're done


While I agree with your statement in general, I miss the connection of how our internal inefficiencies including inflated project costs affect our neighbours.

I don't think Ug and Rwanda are obligated to jointly source for projects with Kenya, if we are expensive, they should feel free to get cheaper sources of funding to build their railways from Malaba/Busia to Kigali. They can also get an alternative contractor to build their portions of the SGR.

If we were delaying the projects or the projects were not technically compatible, I would understand the need to collaborate, lakini the matter of funding hapana.

On corruption in Kenya, it will definitely bankrupt us at some point, but in my opinion, I would rather we keep improving our infrastructure even if we are losing money to corruption because ultimately its still cheaper than doing nothing.

Thanks for yr reasonable comments.
On funding bit, basically the first shop for financing SGR that ug&rw went is China. And China says 'use same contractor, same terms'. The terms are contractor to do everything feasibility study, design, construction. The result is inflated project cost with unfeasible payback periods. Ug & rw are at the stage of asking, is there an alternative?
Daystar*
#40 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:03:03 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 12/30/2015
Posts: 3
Location: Kenya
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