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Poly pharmacy
Spend.thrift
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:03:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 302
Just watching this KTN feature on irresponsible prescriptions by doctors and the feature has just confirmed to me that I am not the only one thinking of doctors as having become mediocre, pharmaco-merchants or just plain unethical.

The sad part is that in Nairobi for instance, the hospitals that most working class people (the likes recommended by corporate insurance companies) visit are usual culprits. Worse is when you see those newly employed GPs. There is one I asked why he was giving me some painkiller alongside the other drugs-pain was not one of my symptoms. The answer this doctor gave me was simply stupid "That we were trained to include that in the management of such cases".

The worst comes when you have a fat medical cover. They may even throw in some "minor" surgery to "solve the problem once and for all".

I recently took my newly born child to a "respected" paedriatic hospital and they couldn't pin the problem yet they were always adding drugs and saying "change this change that, stop this bla bla bla" during every visit.After much introspect, I said to hell with insurance cover and went to a City Council clinic located in the "dirty" side of the CBD and at a cost which was next to zero. I bought the council doc's simple prescription and have never had to go back to that dreadlocked paeditrician again.

I think it is time people woke up and brought doctors to task on every action they take. When my wife was pregnant, I went with her into the doctor's room during all her clinic visits and I always insisted on us being told the reason behind every procedure and medicine prescribed.

Shouldn't this habit (KTN calls it poly pharmacy) be classified as a medical malpractice?
Mwafrika31
#2 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:37:19 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 95
I think this is the problem when doctors become drug peddlers. The entire medical system is based on doctors being compensated when they sell patients services, which may be needed or not. So it is in the doctors interest to sell you as many and most expensive services as possible. This is exactly what one goes through with a mechanic who will lie about what is wrong with your car to get the most money. Its a criminal system.
Theu
#3 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 12:16:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/18/2008
Posts: 353
Thats why i go to mission hospitals. These hospitals may be far but i find their services and attitude excellent plus very low costs. They also have experts. ie kijabe, tenwek. The private hosis have become too commercial and unethical.
real cindano
#4 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:07:08 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/1/2010
Posts: 87
Location: Zimbalabala
Leona used to date a pharmacist ......
She can tell us more on this matter ...........
If people start discussing lawyers ............
Be ready to meet in court .........
Ms Mkenya
#5 Posted : Saturday, August 07, 2010 10:30:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
Polypharmacy is actually quite common esp in the major and nice hospitals. They'l also do 101 investigations. Recently someone i know had lab tests worth 50k done on her using her insurance card in a major hosp in Parklands. All she had was blood drawn. She knew this when th insurance froze her card coz her cover limit reached. Even if u're insured, always insist on knowing why anything is being done or being prescribed. At the end of th day you'l be left bila cover if you dont check. And premiums'l keep rising.
....above all, to stand.
jguru
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:11:47 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
Ms Mkenya wrote:
Polypharmacy is actually quite common esp in the major and nice hospitals. They'l also do 101 investigations. Recently someone i know had lab tests worth 50k done on her using her insurance card in a major hosp in Parklands. All she had was blood drawn. She knew this when th insurance froze her card coz her cover limit reached. Even if u're insured, always insist on knowing why anything is being done or being prescribed. At the end of th day you'l be left bila cover if you dont check. And premiums'l keep rising.


Which laboratory tests are these that were done from a sample of blood drawn and costed 50k? Just curious. smile
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
Ms Mkenya
#7 Posted : Monday, August 09, 2010 10:19:03 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
@jguru,
They checked several hormones, heart enzymes, liver tests, routine tests like haemogram, blood sugar etc but what costed most were some rheumatic testsalong with the hormonal exams. When she went back to check they told her it has to do with checking if she has a connective tissue disease (which they did nto explain).
Her complaint to hospital however was just fatigue and headache. She actually thought she had malaria. I looked at the list of tests... honestly, i dont see why they did them.
....above all, to stand.
Ms Mkenya
#8 Posted : Monday, August 09, 2010 10:21:04 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
By the way, all the tests were within normal limits...
....above all, to stand.
Wendz
#9 Posted : Monday, August 09, 2010 2:18:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
This is very true. One time i took my son to hosi(one of the "top" hospitals around) coz he kept having this persistent flu.... During one of the visits I met this young looking Dr. He said that we needed to do an x-ray of the sinuses. the kid was then 2-3yrs. When i took it later for review, i found an older asian'ish doctor. She was so pissed off and she said, "who subjected this kid to a sinus x-ray? That is very irresponsible! Children dont develop sinuses until they are over 7 years of age..." It wasnt very pleasant.....
anasazi
#10 Posted : Monday, August 09, 2010 2:44:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2007
Posts: 675
Actually I once took my brother to Nairobi Outpatient... Bad thing was I was paying cash coz my brother is not on cover... So now they did their tests, that cost me an arm and a leg, and then prescribed drugs for H pylori (some bacteria in the stomach, which everybody has by the way...). The problem with H pylori dawaz is they cost 7 - 10k.

I decided not to buy the drugs, but observe to the next day. The next day I took him to some clinic in the neighbourhood, and they did some tests and found he had typhoid. Simple! The boy was well in a few days. From that day, let's just say my belief in Nairobi Outpatient was compromised..
Form is temporary, class is permanent
Tebes
#11 Posted : Monday, August 09, 2010 3:20:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
Theu wrote:
Thats why i go to mission hospitals. These hospitals may be far but i find their services and attitude excellent plus very low costs. They also have experts. ie kijabe, tenwek. The private hosis have become too commercial and unethical.



@ Theu, true of the mission hospitals. My first child was born at a private hospital, cost?? slightly over 50,000 bob. My second child at a mission hospital. Cost? about 6,000 /= but this was cleared with an NHIF card. No stories, no complications.

Some medics in private hospitals have become hawkers of medical services to the highest bidders. They are no better than conmen who do quick mathematics on how much you are worth in order to milk you to the very last penny possible.

Worst if you have a cover for your bill. You immediately become a guinea pig for new exorbitantly sold drugs at their disposal!!!
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
Spend.thrift
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:21:08 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 302
@ Ms KEnya. What do you mean by all tests being within normal limits?

I think it is time the country revisited the failed National Health Insurance Scheme, which Ngilu so much fought for but did not succeed. I remember she was also once admitted at KNH-very good sign.

I think for as long as private insurance is around - medical care will forever be out of the reach for many ordinary people. I tend to think that upto 80% of persons seeking care from the "top" money makers in Nairobi are on some sort of insurance. And this could be the reason for the hike in fees. Why on earth does a hospital charge 2k as consultation to see a GP,who rushes you through diagnosis in 4 minutes and seems impatient if you ask many questions?

At many of these (well, let me say two that I have experience with) patients with cover will be admitted in private wing. I remember some time back my brother was taken to the private wing because "no other ward was available". But it's not like he was the last person admitted that evening.

It's no wonder they fought Ngilu's plan that viciously. I too disagreed because of the high prospects of having to pay twice to get care but i think it would be wise to rethink it.

I think for issues like child birth, these companies called hospitals are stretching it. How does a normal (no-complication vaginal) birth end up costing 50K or more when another mission hospital running on the cost-centre model will ask for only 8k for the same?

Looks like all professions in Kenya have sunk into the bottonless pit of mediocrity.


Ms Mkenya
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:19:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
What i mean is that all those tests done showed normal results which may indicate they were not necessary.
About nhif, i think the jump was too high. Imagine moving from paying 320 to 2,000. Thats too high. Should have been gradual. The opposition at the time stemed from the fact that many govt hosp's were not equipped. I hope its diff.
Yes, most private hosp clients are insured. Its so expe!
....above all, to stand.
earthvoice
#14 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:15:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/29/2011
Posts: 257
The way I see it, polypharmacy is not always bad and in some cases it is unavoidable e.g. in the case of multiple chronic conditions.
Maybe some of the pharmacovigilance gurus at the Pharmacology at UoN may want to comment.
"All intelligent investing is value investing -- acquiring more than you are paying for. You must value the business in order to value the stock." - Charlie Munger.
FRM2011
#15 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 5:30:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
Wendz wrote:
This is very true. One time i took my son to hosi(one of the "top" hospitals around) coz he kept having this persistent flu.... During one of the visits I met this young looking Dr. He said that we needed to do an x-ray of the sinuses. the kid was then 2-3yrs. When i took it later for review, i found an older asian'ish doctor. She was so pissed off and she said, "who subjected this kid to a sinus x-ray? That is very irresponsible! Children dont develop sinuses until they are over 7 years of age..." It wasnt very pleasant.....


Just seen this post and got emboldened to voice something I have always believed.

There is a world of difference between asian doctors and our fellow brothers. I have had not-so-pleasant encounters with our so called specilaists. They rub their "flyness" on your face.

If you visit the paediatric wing at aga khan you will notice the difference. The Asians are more there.

Once an elderly asian lady pediatrician knelt on the floor to engage my kid who was refusing to open her mouth. It left a lasting impression on my mind.
Zenge
#16 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 5:51:03 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/7/2011
Posts: 105
Last week, a friend of mine was shot on the hip and rushed to a hospital in Parklands, he had bled badly and the bullet was lodged in his hip. After the x-ray, a surgeon came in and said that he could operate immediately (he had a slight smell of whisky). Everyone was in panick mode and the family signed up chap chap! So the dude is wheeled into the theater and after a few hours in there the surgeon realises that the blood levels were low and the operation couldn't proceed. He patched up the guy and they suggested an ICU in a different location. So the family and friends present rush to a nearby hospital with the facility where they have to deposit 600k for ICU admission. To cut a long story short, the patient is still in ICU awaiting recovery for doctors to proceed with the surgery.
Sick! Sick! Sick!
Taurrus
#17 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:37:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/25/2015
Posts: 839
Location: Kite
Very sad! difference tween our beloved country and India!
Another Doc suggested we rush my daughter to theater for tongue repair after self bite, just when I was arranging for funds,my friend suggests I see one Prof [simiyu/wekesa can't rem] Hey! You know what? He told me that theater biz is utter nonsense and prescribed ice cream! wonders! 350/-
Ethiteri
#18 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:07:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/4/2016
Posts: 175
Location: Global
Without fear of contradiction I say our Drs especially the young upcoming ones are here to make money first then treatment can follow.

My nephew had his sinus removed lest than one year ago and sad to say they have grown back.The Dr say we manage with meds and am wondering was the operation necessary.

A few years ago I know someone who had some condition.Tests before treatment cost close to 300K.Quotation for treatment were upto 1.5M

We opted for India. Suprise suprise.....Total cost,tests and treatment and a 3 week stay in India for patient and 2 caregivers was Max 700,000.(Incl of airfare)
And what is more the treatment did not involve any invasive operation relative to what Kenyan doctors had suggested.
Taurrus
#19 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:46:28 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/25/2015
Posts: 839
Location: Kite
Ethiteri wrote:
Without fear of contradiction I say our Drs especially the young upcoming ones are here to make money first then treatment can follow.

My nephew had his sinus removed lest than one year ago and sad to say they have grown back.The Dr say we manage with meds and am wondering was the operation necessary.

A few years ago I know someone who had some condition.Tests before treatment cost close to 300K.Quotation for treatment were upto 1.5M

We opted for India. Suprise suprise.....Total cost,tests and treatment and a 3 week stay in India for patient and 2 caregivers was Max 700,000.(Incl of airfare)
And what is more the treatment did not involve any invasive operation relative to what Kenyan doctors had suggested.

Thieves!
Swenani
#20 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 11:45:19 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,236
Location: Vacuum
Taurrus wrote:
Very sad! difference tween our beloved country and India!
Another Doc suggested we rush my daughter to theater for tongue repair after self bite, just when I was arranging for funds,my friend suggests I see one Prof [simiyu/wekesa can't rem] Hey! You know what? He told me that theater biz is utter nonsense and prescribed ice cream! wonders! 350/-

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