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SGR Progress thus far
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Imagine fencing off Thika Highway or Waiyaki Way....people would have heart attacks as they would not have anywhere to run across like madmen! Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Tokyo wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Impunity wrote:
There is a train and a tram...then we have light rail and heavy rail, then finally we have high speed train and "normal" speed train.
We also have bullet trains, there is also maglev trains and adhesion trains.
Google hizo terms zote kwanza then come we talk about fencing.
enyewe wewe ni engineer, let me first google that then respond, but does the Japanese shika-peni qualify as high speed thus fencing is needed, please answer then I will google those images. for the time being let me google high speed train in europe @impunity naomba usaidizi wako, is this a tram, normal or high speed  All the train tracks High or normal speeds are fenced off in Japan. Same applies to all Highways, expressways and bypasses. The newest linear/Maglev 600plus km/hr under construction is all underground. Thank you @Tokyo, where were you 1,000 posts ago, guys have been on @impunity's arse for like a week "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Tokyo wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Impunity wrote:
There is a train and a tram...then we have light rail and heavy rail, then finally we have high speed train and "normal" speed train.
We also have bullet trains, there is also maglev trains and adhesion trains.
Google hizo terms zote kwanza then come we talk about fencing.
enyewe wewe ni engineer, let me first google that then respond, but does the Japanese shika-peni qualify as high speed thus fencing is needed, please answer then I will google those images. for the time being let me google high speed train in europe @impunity naomba usaidizi wako, is this a tram, normal or high speed All the train tracks High or normal speeds are fenced off in Japan. Same applies to all Highways, expressways and bypasses. The newest linear/Maglev 600plus km/hr under construction is all underground. Thank you mate. The fencing issue confused most danderheads here. For Maglev-600km/h, its safer to put that maddening speed underground... The world's first commercial Maglev line is operated in Shanghai, 30km long and its over land because it does the basic bullet train speed of 430km/h. The 600km/h for Japan Maglev will be orgasmic. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Tokyo wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Impunity wrote:
There is a train and a tram...then we have light rail and heavy rail, then finally we have high speed train and "normal" speed train.
We also have bullet trains, there is also maglev trains and adhesion trains.
Google hizo terms zote kwanza then come we talk about fencing.
enyewe wewe ni engineer, let me first google that then respond, but does the Japanese shika-peni qualify as high speed thus fencing is needed, please answer then I will google those images. for the time being let me google high speed train in europe @impunity naomba usaidizi wako, is this a tram, normal or high speed All the train tracks High or normal speeds are fenced off in Japan. Same applies to all Highways, expressways and bypasses. The newest linear/Maglev 600plus km/hr under construction is all underground. Thank you @Tokyo, where were you 1,000 posts ago, guys have been on @impunity's arse for like a week You see, the Chinese charged the kenyan @wanjiku for a steel-and-concrete fenced railway track only to come back door and raised it (elevate) it some few meters above the ground with ugly-looking soil embankment hoping that it will serve the same purpose as a fence. It will not. May be if they elevate it to some 50m above ground. Questions have been asked as to why "our" SGR is almost twice as expensive as Ethiopian's yet the terrain between Mombasa and Nairobi is much less problematic than the Ethiopian's...in fact the land between Mombasa and Nairobi is generally flat and largely barren and inhabitted. The Ethiopian path is comparable to our Rift Valley. It will be interesting to see the actual cost the Chinese will charge for contructing the line from The Kikuyu escarpment all the way to Fort Tennan and onward to Lake side Citeh. Even if they pass through Narok and Bomet they will still have to descend the Kikuyu escarpment at Kijabe and join the Kisumu line around Kericho or Koru area. Hold your breathing. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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KulaRaha wrote:Imagine fencing off Thika Highway or Waiyaki Way....people would have heart attacks as they would not have anywhere to run across like madmen!  the fencing thing seems not to work in kenya, if its chuma the thing is stolen even the waiyaki way concrete barriers are broken to create crossing points, worse case guys just jump over.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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Impunity wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Tokyo wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Impunity wrote:
There is a train and a tram...then we have light rail and heavy rail, then finally we have high speed train and "normal" speed train.
We also have bullet trains, there is also maglev trains and adhesion trains.
Google hizo terms zote kwanza then come we talk about fencing.
enyewe wewe ni engineer, let me first google that then respond, but does the Japanese shika-peni qualify as high speed thus fencing is needed, please answer then I will google those images. for the time being let me google high speed train in europe @impunity naomba usaidizi wako, is this a tram, normal or high speed All the train tracks High or normal speeds are fenced off in Japan. Same applies to all Highways, expressways and bypasses. The newest linear/Maglev 600plus km/hr under construction is all underground. Thank you @Tokyo, where were you 1,000 posts ago, guys have been on @impunity's arse for like a week You see, the Chinese charged the kenyan @wanjiku for a steel-and-concrete fenced railway track only to come back door and raised it (elevate) it some few meters above the ground with ugly-looking soil embankment hoping that it will serve the same purpose as a fence. It will not. May be if they elevate it to some 50m above ground. Questions have been asked as to why "our" SGR is almost twice as expensive as Ethiopian's yet the terrain between Mombasa and Nairobi is much less problematic than the Ethiopian's...in fact the land between Mombasa and Nairobi is generally flat and largely barren and inhabitted. The Ethiopian path is comparable to our Rift Valley. It will be interesting to see the actual cost the Chinese will charge for contructing the line from The Kikuyu escarpment all the way to Fort Tennan and onward to Lake side Citeh. Even if they pass through Narok and Bomet they will still have to descend the Kikuyu escarpment at Kijabe and join the Kisumu line around Kericho or Koru area. Hold your breathing. I have not come across, or rather I have not searched for the project cost and breakdown of the same, nasikia its hard to get the same, but it would be interesting to see to which areas the cash was allocated and by how much, but you are right the cost issue has been a thorny one, and all that is happening now is guys are just speculating, for the raised platform mimi nimesikia its to try and achieve as much level, avoid flooding issues and also avoid walevi. lakini hi mamo ya japan I have never been huko, I only travel via google images, thus the confusion on this fencing thing because I can see some images that contradict that, but anyway wacha we believe those who have been on the ground huko, they should know better.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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Impunity wrote:You see, the Chinese charged the kenyan @wanjiku for a steel-and-concrete fenced railway track only to come back door and raised it (elevate) it some few meters above the ground with ugly-looking soil embankment hoping that it will serve the same purpose as a fence. Toa evidence... Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Jus Blazin wrote:Impunity wrote:You see, the Chinese charged the kenyan @wanjiku for a steel-and-concrete fenced railway track only to come back door and raised it (elevate) it some few meters above the ground with ugly-looking soil embankment hoping that it will serve the same purpose as a fence. Toa evidence... Toa Jubilee goggles first then I will provide evidence. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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Impunity wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:Impunity wrote:You see, the Chinese charged the kenyan @wanjiku for a steel-and-concrete fenced railway track only to come back door and raised it (elevate) it some few meters above the ground with ugly-looking soil embankment hoping that it will serve the same purpose as a fence. Toa evidence... Toa Jubilee goggles first then I will provide evidence. Where have I heard that before? 'I have evidence'... Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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JJ  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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For those asking about the difference btn the ET line vs Ke C&P from another forum wrote:The total rail length is 609 Km. The distance from Mombasa to Nairobi is 472 KM. 137 KM (30%) will be eaten up by 2 marshaling yards at Mombasa and Nairobi and by the 30 passing and intermediate stations that will have up-to 3 lines to allow passing and picking up passengers at the stations. The cost of the railway infrastructure is $2.6 Billion and the rolling Stock is $1.146 Billion. That puts the cost per KM at $4.27 Million on the Kenyan side. Sebata-Addis Ababa-Meiso-Djibouti Border-Djibouti port total length 656 KM cost $4 Billion Cost per KM $6.09 million. This is the distance. If you add in about 30% (same ratio as Kenya since technology and contractors are similar) distance for intermediate stations, passing stations and marshalling yards etc it becomes about 852 KM which drops the cost to about $4.69 per KM. Sebata-Addis Ababa 115 KM is double track Addis Ababa-Meiso single track 214 KM Meiso-Djibouti Border single track 339 KM Djibouti Border-Djibouti port single track 100 KM Rolling StockKenya 43 diesel Cargo, 8 diesel shunting, 5 diesel passenger, 1,620 freight wagons and 40 passenger coaches and one simulator Ethiopia35 electric locomotives,6 diesel shunting, 1,100 freight wagons and 30 passenger coaches and one simulator. Key DifferencesThe Ethiopian line is electrified Virtually no land acquisition costs in Ethiopia. The government owns all the land. Since Ethiopia is an illiberal Democracy with a state controlled economy, it is impossible to find any third party information, research or criticism that does not come from a state source about the project thus making it very difficult to collaborate their claims on cost. FinancingKenya 10% $380 Million China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 90% $3.6 Billion Ethiopia Govt Contribution 30% $1 billion China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 70% $3 billion (of which $579 million went to Djibouti to finance their 100 KM) ConclusionWhile it appears that the cost of rail is cheaper per KM for if you compare the Kenyan Vs. Ethiopian costs, it is somewhat of a tomato to potato comparison because the Ethiopian side is electrified. If you add 20% that has been thrown around as the cost for electrification for the Kenyan side, the cost would be $3.12 billion for the Kenyan line which brings the cost to $5.12 Million vs 4.69 million per KM in Ethiopia. Considering that Ethiopia started building their rail in 2012 (time value of money) and differences in terrain and elevation due to urbanisation and Wildlife corridors in Kenya and the steep slopes in Ethiopia, the costs are roughly equal. All the noise about inflated costs is noise due to the reckless political brinkmanship and sloppy journalism in Kennya. In addition, the argument of the easterly railway between Addis Ababa and Djibouti being double track is false. That rail corridor is single track. The only double track is between Sebeta and Addis Ababa. Sebeta is a Special Economic Zone Town town that lies 115 KM Southwest of Addis Ababa. It is Akin to our Naivasha. If the Jubilee administration is serious about Naivasha becoming a formidable SEZ then here is where they borrow a leaf from our brothers in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia the railway is a national project of national importance, mind you there is a parallel track of similar vintage to Kenya's old meter gauge that runs parallel to the new Ethiopian SGR. There was no question or hapless noise about the merits or demerits of rehabilitating it or poorly researched articles in the Economist. FYIthere are 1500 trucks plying between Djibouti and Addis Ababa daily, VS 4300 between Mombasa and Nairobi and despite the fact that Kenya has per capita PP income of $3,304 vs Ethiopia $1431.85, i did not find one criticism anywhere that the Ethiopian line is expensive or unaffordable or that the Ethiopian State is being saddled by unsustainable debt. We do need some form of Illiberal democracy in Kenya, but that is an argument for another day. NOTE:The Ethiopian construction was begun without a complete design and standards like electrification were changed midway, so while the costs in the original contracts in 2012 were $1.2 and $1.62 billion for the 2 sections respectively, the costs ballooned as construction progressed. The true cost as mentioned in the Ethiopian Embassy newsletter in 2015 p.g 8 is close to $4.5 billion. This in my estimation is the real cost. (I am not convinced yet that it even covers the rolling stock) Looking at their contracts they seem to give them in piece meal to several contractors for the track, facilities, signaling and rolling stock probably because they fund a bigger percentage of their projects from their government and they always involve local (many times government owned corporations) partners and so they can dictate terms and reap the rewards of skills and technology transfer. Actually it was quite widely reported in China that the Addis Ababa - Djibouti Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 2 Standard. CRCC (CCECC's parent company) has specified that on their offical website, or you can read a google translated version here. On the other hand, the Mombasa - Nairobi Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 1 Standard. The main difference between the two standard is the Class 1 Standard is designed for a maximum operation speed of 200km/h with an annual freight tonnage greater than 20 million tonnes whereas the Class 2 Standard is designed for an operation speed of 120km/h and annual freight tonnage between 10 million and 20 million tonnes. Referenceshttp://www.railway-techn...com/fe...-line-4836968/
http://usa.chinadaily.co...orld/2...t_20765109.htm
http://china.aiddata.org/projects/1471
http://www.businessdaily....com/K...z/-/index.html
http://www.capitalethiop...ex...ject&Itemid=27
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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murchr wrote:For those asking about the difference btn the ET line vs Ke C&P from another forum wrote:The total rail length is 609 Km. The distance from Mombasa to Nairobi is 472 KM. 137 KM (30%) will be eaten up by 2 marshaling yards at Mombasa and Nairobi and by the 30 passing and intermediate stations that will have up-to 3 lines to allow passing and picking up passengers at the stations. The cost of the railway infrastructure is $2.6 Billion and the rolling Stock is $1.146 Billion. That puts the cost per KM at $4.27 Million on the Kenyan side. Sebata-Addis Ababa-Meiso-Djibouti Border-Djibouti port total length 656 KM cost $4 Billion Cost per KM $6.09 million. This is the distance. If you add in about 30% (same ratio as Kenya since technology and contractors are similar) distance for intermediate stations, passing stations and marshalling yards etc it becomes about 852 KM which drops the cost to about $4.69 per KM. Sebata-Addis Ababa 115 KM is double track Addis Ababa-Meiso single track 214 KM Meiso-Djibouti Border single track 339 KM Djibouti Border-Djibouti port single track 100 KM Rolling StockKenya 43 diesel Cargo, 8 diesel shunting, 5 diesel passenger, 1,620 freight wagons and 40 passenger coaches and one simulator Ethiopia35 electric locomotives,6 diesel shunting, 1,100 freight wagons and 30 passenger coaches and one simulator. Key DifferencesThe Ethiopian line is electrified Virtually no land acquisition costs in Ethiopia. The government owns all the land. Since Ethiopia is an illiberal Democracy with a state controlled economy, it is impossible to find any third party information, research or criticism that does not come from a state source about the project thus making it very difficult to collaborate their claims on cost. FinancingKenya 10% $380 Million China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 90% $3.6 Billion Ethiopia Govt Contribution 30% $1 billion China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 70% $3 billion (of which $579 million went to Djibouti to finance their 100 KM) ConclusionWhile it appears that the cost of rail is cheaper per KM for if you compare the Kenyan Vs. Ethiopian costs, it is somewhat of a tomato to potato comparison because the Ethiopian side is electrified. If you add 20% that has been thrown around as the cost for electrification for the Kenyan side, the cost would be $3.12 billion for the Kenyan line which brings the cost to $5.12 Million vs 4.69 million per KM in Ethiopia. Considering that Ethiopia started building their rail in 2012 (time value of money) and differences in terrain and elevation due to urbanisation and Wildlife corridors in Kenya and the steep slopes in Ethiopia, the costs are roughly equal. All the noise about inflated costs is noise due to the reckless political brinkmanship and sloppy journalism in Kennya. In addition, the argument of the easterly railway between Addis Ababa and Djibouti being double track is false. That rail corridor is single track. The only double track is between Sebeta and Addis Ababa. Sebeta is a Special Economic Zone Town town that lies 115 KM Southwest of Addis Ababa. It is Akin to our Naivasha. If the Jubilee administration is serious about Naivasha becoming a formidable SEZ then here is where they borrow a leaf from our brothers in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia the railway is a national project of national importance, mind you there is a parallel track of similar vintage to Kenya's old meter gauge that runs parallel to the new Ethiopian SGR. There was no question or hapless noise about the merits or demerits of rehabilitating it or poorly researched articles in the Economist. FYIthere are 1500 trucks plying between Djibouti and Addis Ababa daily, VS 4300 between Mombasa and Nairobi and despite the fact that Kenya has per capita PP income of $3,304 vs Ethiopia $1431.85, i did not find one criticism anywhere that the Ethiopian line is expensive or unaffordable or that the Ethiopian State is being saddled by unsustainable debt. We do need some form of Illiberal democracy in Kenya, but that is an argument for another day. NOTE:The Ethiopian construction was begun without a complete design and standards like electrification were changed midway, so while the costs in the original contracts in 2012 were $1.2 and $1.62 billion for the 2 sections respectively, the costs ballooned as construction progressed. The true cost as mentioned in the Ethiopian Embassy newsletter in 2015 p.g 8 is close to $4.5 billion. This in my estimation is the real cost. (I am not convinced yet that it even covers the rolling stock) Looking at their contracts they seem to give them in piece meal to several contractors for the track, facilities, signaling and rolling stock probably because they fund a bigger percentage of their projects from their government and they always involve local (many times government owned corporations) partners and so they can dictate terms and reap the rewards of skills and technology transfer. Actually it was quite widely reported in China that the Addis Ababa - Djibouti Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 2 Standard. CRCC (CCECC's parent company) has specified that on their offical website, or you can read a google translated version here. On the other hand, the Mombasa - Nairobi Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 1 Standard. The main difference between the two standard is the Class 1 Standard is designed for a maximum operation speed of 200km/h with an annual freight tonnage greater than 20 million tonnes whereas the Class 2 Standard is designed for an operation speed of 120km/h and annual freight tonnage between 10 million and 20 million tonnes. Referenceshttp://www.railway-techn...com/fe...-line-4836968/
http://usa.chinadaily.co...orld/2...t_20765109.htm
http://china.aiddata.org/projects/1471
http://www.businessdaily....com/K...z/-/index.html
http://www.capitalethiop...ex...ject&Itemid=27
schupid analysis based on emotions and goggles If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
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Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:For those asking about the difference btn the ET line vs Ke C&P from another forum wrote:The total rail length is 609 Km. The distance from Mombasa to Nairobi is 472 KM. 137 KM (30%) will be eaten up by 2 marshaling yards at Mombasa and Nairobi and by the 30 passing and intermediate stations that will have up-to 3 lines to allow passing and picking up passengers at the stations. The cost of the railway infrastructure is $2.6 Billion and the rolling Stock is $1.146 Billion. That puts the cost per KM at $4.27 Million on the Kenyan side. Sebata-Addis Ababa-Meiso-Djibouti Border-Djibouti port total length 656 KM cost $4 Billion Cost per KM $6.09 million. This is the distance. If you add in about 30% (same ratio as Kenya since technology and contractors are similar) distance for intermediate stations, passing stations and marshalling yards etc it becomes about 852 KM which drops the cost to about $4.69 per KM. Sebata-Addis Ababa 115 KM is double track Addis Ababa-Meiso single track 214 KM Meiso-Djibouti Border single track 339 KM Djibouti Border-Djibouti port single track 100 KM Rolling StockKenya 43 diesel Cargo, 8 diesel shunting, 5 diesel passenger, 1,620 freight wagons and 40 passenger coaches and one simulator Ethiopia35 electric locomotives,6 diesel shunting, 1,100 freight wagons and 30 passenger coaches and one simulator. Key DifferencesThe Ethiopian line is electrified Virtually no land acquisition costs in Ethiopia. The government owns all the land. Since Ethiopia is an illiberal Democracy with a state controlled economy, it is impossible to find any third party information, research or criticism that does not come from a state source about the project thus making it very difficult to collaborate their claims on cost. FinancingKenya 10% $380 Million China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 90% $3.6 Billion Ethiopia Govt Contribution 30% $1 billion China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 70% $3 billion (of which $579 million went to Djibouti to finance their 100 KM) ConclusionWhile it appears that the cost of rail is cheaper per KM for if you compare the Kenyan Vs. Ethiopian costs, it is somewhat of a tomato to potato comparison because the Ethiopian side is electrified. If you add 20% that has been thrown around as the cost for electrification for the Kenyan side, the cost would be $3.12 billion for the Kenyan line which brings the cost to $5.12 Million vs 4.69 million per KM in Ethiopia. Considering that Ethiopia started building their rail in 2012 (time value of money) and differences in terrain and elevation due to urbanisation and Wildlife corridors in Kenya and the steep slopes in Ethiopia, the costs are roughly equal. All the noise about inflated costs is noise due to the reckless political brinkmanship and sloppy journalism in Kennya. In addition, the argument of the easterly railway between Addis Ababa and Djibouti being double track is false. That rail corridor is single track. The only double track is between Sebeta and Addis Ababa. Sebeta is a Special Economic Zone Town town that lies 115 KM Southwest of Addis Ababa. It is Akin to our Naivasha. If the Jubilee administration is serious about Naivasha becoming a formidable SEZ then here is where they borrow a leaf from our brothers in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia the railway is a national project of national importance, mind you there is a parallel track of similar vintage to Kenya's old meter gauge that runs parallel to the new Ethiopian SGR. There was no question or hapless noise about the merits or demerits of rehabilitating it or poorly researched articles in the Economist. FYIthere are 1500 trucks plying between Djibouti and Addis Ababa daily, VS 4300 between Mombasa and Nairobi and despite the fact that Kenya has per capita PP income of $3,304 vs Ethiopia $1431.85, i did not find one criticism anywhere that the Ethiopian line is expensive or unaffordable or that the Ethiopian State is being saddled by unsustainable debt. We do need some form of Illiberal democracy in Kenya, but that is an argument for another day. NOTE:The Ethiopian construction was begun without a complete design and standards like electrification were changed midway, so while the costs in the original contracts in 2012 were $1.2 and $1.62 billion for the 2 sections respectively, the costs ballooned as construction progressed. The true cost as mentioned in the Ethiopian Embassy newsletter in 2015 p.g 8 is close to $4.5 billion. This in my estimation is the real cost. (I am not convinced yet that it even covers the rolling stock) Looking at their contracts they seem to give them in piece meal to several contractors for the track, facilities, signaling and rolling stock probably because they fund a bigger percentage of their projects from their government and they always involve local (many times government owned corporations) partners and so they can dictate terms and reap the rewards of skills and technology transfer. Actually it was quite widely reported in China that the Addis Ababa - Djibouti Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 2 Standard. CRCC (CCECC's parent company) has specified that on their offical website, or you can read a google translated version here. On the other hand, the Mombasa - Nairobi Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 1 Standard. The main difference between the two standard is the Class 1 Standard is designed for a maximum operation speed of 200km/h with an annual freight tonnage greater than 20 million tonnes whereas the Class 2 Standard is designed for an operation speed of 120km/h and annual freight tonnage between 10 million and 20 million tonnes. Referenceshttp://www.railway-techn...com/fe...-line-4836968/
http://usa.chinadaily.co...orld/2...t_20765109.htm
http://china.aiddata.org/projects/1471
http://www.businessdaily....com/K...z/-/index.html
http://www.capitalethiop...ex...ject&Itemid=27
schupid analysis based on emotions and goggles Schuwenani put your analysis too and I will tell you who has a schutupid analysis
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:For those asking about the difference btn the ET line vs Ke C&P from another forum wrote:The total rail length is 609 Km. The distance from Mombasa to Nairobi is 472 KM. 137 KM (30%) will be eaten up by 2 marshaling yards at Mombasa and Nairobi and by the 30 passing and intermediate stations that will have up-to 3 lines to allow passing and picking up passengers at the stations. The cost of the railway infrastructure is $2.6 Billion and the rolling Stock is $1.146 Billion. That puts the cost per KM at $4.27 Million on the Kenyan side. Sebata-Addis Ababa-Meiso-Djibouti Border-Djibouti port total length 656 KM cost $4 Billion Cost per KM $6.09 million. This is the distance. If you add in about 30% (same ratio as Kenya since technology and contractors are similar) distance for intermediate stations, passing stations and marshalling yards etc it becomes about 852 KM which drops the cost to about $4.69 per KM. Sebata-Addis Ababa 115 KM is double track Addis Ababa-Meiso single track 214 KM Meiso-Djibouti Border single track 339 KM Djibouti Border-Djibouti port single track 100 KM Rolling StockKenya 43 diesel Cargo, 8 diesel shunting, 5 diesel passenger, 1,620 freight wagons and 40 passenger coaches and one simulator Ethiopia35 electric locomotives,6 diesel shunting, 1,100 freight wagons and 30 passenger coaches and one simulator. Key DifferencesThe Ethiopian line is electrified Virtually no land acquisition costs in Ethiopia. The government owns all the land. Since Ethiopia is an illiberal Democracy with a state controlled economy, it is impossible to find any third party information, research or criticism that does not come from a state source about the project thus making it very difficult to collaborate their claims on cost. FinancingKenya 10% $380 Million China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 90% $3.6 Billion Ethiopia Govt Contribution 30% $1 billion China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 70% $3 billion (of which $579 million went to Djibouti to finance their 100 KM) ConclusionWhile it appears that the cost of rail is cheaper per KM for if you compare the Kenyan Vs. Ethiopian costs, it is somewhat of a tomato to potato comparison because the Ethiopian side is electrified. If you add 20% that has been thrown around as the cost for electrification for the Kenyan side, the cost would be $3.12 billion for the Kenyan line which brings the cost to $5.12 Million vs 4.69 million per KM in Ethiopia. Considering that Ethiopia started building their rail in 2012 (time value of money) and differences in terrain and elevation due to urbanisation and Wildlife corridors in Kenya and the steep slopes in Ethiopia, the costs are roughly equal. All the noise about inflated costs is noise due to the reckless political brinkmanship and sloppy journalism in Kennya. In addition, the argument of the easterly railway between Addis Ababa and Djibouti being double track is false. That rail corridor is single track. The only double track is between Sebeta and Addis Ababa. Sebeta is a Special Economic Zone Town town that lies 115 KM Southwest of Addis Ababa. It is Akin to our Naivasha. If the Jubilee administration is serious about Naivasha becoming a formidable SEZ then here is where they borrow a leaf from our brothers in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia the railway is a national project of national importance, mind you there is a parallel track of similar vintage to Kenya's old meter gauge that runs parallel to the new Ethiopian SGR. There was no question or hapless noise about the merits or demerits of rehabilitating it or poorly researched articles in the Economist. FYIthere are 1500 trucks plying between Djibouti and Addis Ababa daily, VS 4300 between Mombasa and Nairobi and despite the fact that Kenya has per capita PP income of $3,304 vs Ethiopia $1431.85, i did not find one criticism anywhere that the Ethiopian line is expensive or unaffordable or that the Ethiopian State is being saddled by unsustainable debt. We do need some form of Illiberal democracy in Kenya, but that is an argument for another day. NOTE:The Ethiopian construction was begun without a complete design and standards like electrification were changed midway, so while the costs in the original contracts in 2012 were $1.2 and $1.62 billion for the 2 sections respectively, the costs ballooned as construction progressed. The true cost as mentioned in the Ethiopian Embassy newsletter in 2015 p.g 8 is close to $4.5 billion. This in my estimation is the real cost. (I am not convinced yet that it even covers the rolling stock) Looking at their contracts they seem to give them in piece meal to several contractors for the track, facilities, signaling and rolling stock probably because they fund a bigger percentage of their projects from their government and they always involve local (many times government owned corporations) partners and so they can dictate terms and reap the rewards of skills and technology transfer. Actually it was quite widely reported in China that the Addis Ababa - Djibouti Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 2 Standard. CRCC (CCECC's parent company) has specified that on their offical website, or you can read a google translated version here. On the other hand, the Mombasa - Nairobi Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 1 Standard. The main difference between the two standard is the Class 1 Standard is designed for a maximum operation speed of 200km/h with an annual freight tonnage greater than 20 million tonnes whereas the Class 2 Standard is designed for an operation speed of 120km/h and annual freight tonnage between 10 million and 20 million tonnes. Referenceshttp://www.railway-techn...com/fe...-line-4836968/
http://usa.chinadaily.co...orld/2...t_20765109.htm
http://china.aiddata.org/projects/1471
http://www.businessdaily....com/K...z/-/index.html
http://www.capitalethiop...ex...ject&Itemid=27
schupid analysis based on emotions and goggles Bring your intelligent analysis we measure you "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/8/2008 Posts: 288
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murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:For those asking about the difference btn the ET line vs Ke C&P from another forum wrote:The total rail length is 609 Km. The distance from Mombasa to Nairobi is 472 KM. 137 KM (30%) will be eaten up by 2 marshaling yards at Mombasa and Nairobi and by the 30 passing and intermediate stations that will have up-to 3 lines to allow passing and picking up passengers at the stations. The cost of the railway infrastructure is $2.6 Billion and the rolling Stock is $1.146 Billion. That puts the cost per KM at $4.27 Million on the Kenyan side. Sebata-Addis Ababa-Meiso-Djibouti Border-Djibouti port total length 656 KM cost $4 Billion Cost per KM $6.09 million. This is the distance. If you add in about 30% (same ratio as Kenya since technology and contractors are similar) distance for intermediate stations, passing stations and marshalling yards etc it becomes about 852 KM which drops the cost to about $4.69 per KM. Sebata-Addis Ababa 115 KM is double track Addis Ababa-Meiso single track 214 KM Meiso-Djibouti Border single track 339 KM Djibouti Border-Djibouti port single track 100 KM Rolling StockKenya 43 diesel Cargo, 8 diesel shunting, 5 diesel passenger, 1,620 freight wagons and 40 passenger coaches and one simulator Ethiopia35 electric locomotives,6 diesel shunting, 1,100 freight wagons and 30 passenger coaches and one simulator. Key DifferencesThe Ethiopian line is electrified Virtually no land acquisition costs in Ethiopia. The government owns all the land. Since Ethiopia is an illiberal Democracy with a state controlled economy, it is impossible to find any third party information, research or criticism that does not come from a state source about the project thus making it very difficult to collaborate their claims on cost. FinancingKenya 10% $380 Million China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 90% $3.6 Billion Ethiopia Govt Contribution 30% $1 billion China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 70% $3 billion (of which $579 million went to Djibouti to finance their 100 KM) ConclusionWhile it appears that the cost of rail is cheaper per KM for if you compare the Kenyan Vs. Ethiopian costs, it is somewhat of a tomato to potato comparison because the Ethiopian side is electrified. If you add 20% that has been thrown around as the cost for electrification for the Kenyan side, the cost would be $3.12 billion for the Kenyan line which brings the cost to $5.12 Million vs 4.69 million per KM in Ethiopia. Considering that Ethiopia started building their rail in 2012 (time value of money) and differences in terrain and elevation due to urbanisation and Wildlife corridors in Kenya and the steep slopes in Ethiopia, the costs are roughly equal. All the noise about inflated costs is noise due to the reckless political brinkmanship and sloppy journalism in Kennya. In addition, the argument of the easterly railway between Addis Ababa and Djibouti being double track is false. That rail corridor is single track. The only double track is between Sebeta and Addis Ababa. Sebeta is a Special Economic Zone Town town that lies 115 KM Southwest of Addis Ababa. It is Akin to our Naivasha. If the Jubilee administration is serious about Naivasha becoming a formidable SEZ then here is where they borrow a leaf from our brothers in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia the railway is a national project of national importance, mind you there is a parallel track of similar vintage to Kenya's old meter gauge that runs parallel to the new Ethiopian SGR. There was no question or hapless noise about the merits or demerits of rehabilitating it or poorly researched articles in the Economist. FYIthere are 1500 trucks plying between Djibouti and Addis Ababa daily, VS 4300 between Mombasa and Nairobi and despite the fact that Kenya has per capita PP income of $3,304 vs Ethiopia $1431.85, i did not find one criticism anywhere that the Ethiopian line is expensive or unaffordable or that the Ethiopian State is being saddled by unsustainable debt. We do need some form of Illiberal democracy in Kenya, but that is an argument for another day. NOTE:The Ethiopian construction was begun without a complete design and standards like electrification were changed midway, so while the costs in the original contracts in 2012 were $1.2 and $1.62 billion for the 2 sections respectively, the costs ballooned as construction progressed. The true cost as mentioned in the Ethiopian Embassy newsletter in 2015 p.g 8 is close to $4.5 billion. This in my estimation is the real cost. (I am not convinced yet that it even covers the rolling stock) Looking at their contracts they seem to give them in piece meal to several contractors for the track, facilities, signaling and rolling stock probably because they fund a bigger percentage of their projects from their government and they always involve local (many times government owned corporations) partners and so they can dictate terms and reap the rewards of skills and technology transfer. Actually it was quite widely reported in China that the Addis Ababa - Djibouti Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 2 Standard. CRCC (CCECC's parent company) has specified that on their offical website, or you can read a google translated version here. On the other hand, the Mombasa - Nairobi Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 1 Standard. The main difference between the two standard is the Class 1 Standard is designed for a maximum operation speed of 200km/h with an annual freight tonnage greater than 20 million tonnes whereas the Class 2 Standard is designed for an operation speed of 120km/h and annual freight tonnage between 10 million and 20 million tonnes. Referenceshttp://www.railway-techn...com/fe...-line-4836968/
http://usa.chinadaily.co...orld/2...t_20765109.htm
http://china.aiddata.org/projects/1471
http://www.businessdaily....com/K...z/-/index.html
http://www.capitalethiop...ex...ject&Itemid=27
schupid analysis based on emotions and goggles Bring your intelligent analysis we measure you How can you call this stupid analysis yet you are not giving us yours? My advise to you is simple..you should visit the forum where this analysis was initially posted and see the kind of analysis people are posting backed by evidence.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Jitahidi wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:For those asking about the difference btn the ET line vs Ke C&P from another forum wrote:The total rail length is 609 Km. The distance from Mombasa to Nairobi is 472 KM. 137 KM (30%) will be eaten up by 2 marshaling yards at Mombasa and Nairobi and by the 30 passing and intermediate stations that will have up-to 3 lines to allow passing and picking up passengers at the stations. The cost of the railway infrastructure is $2.6 Billion and the rolling Stock is $1.146 Billion. That puts the cost per KM at $4.27 Million on the Kenyan side. Sebata-Addis Ababa-Meiso-Djibouti Border-Djibouti port total length 656 KM cost $4 Billion Cost per KM $6.09 million. This is the distance. If you add in about 30% (same ratio as Kenya since technology and contractors are similar) distance for intermediate stations, passing stations and marshalling yards etc it becomes about 852 KM which drops the cost to about $4.69 per KM. Sebata-Addis Ababa 115 KM is double track Addis Ababa-Meiso single track 214 KM Meiso-Djibouti Border single track 339 KM Djibouti Border-Djibouti port single track 100 KM Rolling StockKenya 43 diesel Cargo, 8 diesel shunting, 5 diesel passenger, 1,620 freight wagons and 40 passenger coaches and one simulator Ethiopia35 electric locomotives,6 diesel shunting, 1,100 freight wagons and 30 passenger coaches and one simulator. Key DifferencesThe Ethiopian line is electrified Virtually no land acquisition costs in Ethiopia. The government owns all the land. Since Ethiopia is an illiberal Democracy with a state controlled economy, it is impossible to find any third party information, research or criticism that does not come from a state source about the project thus making it very difficult to collaborate their claims on cost. FinancingKenya 10% $380 Million China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 90% $3.6 Billion Ethiopia Govt Contribution 30% $1 billion China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 70% $3 billion (of which $579 million went to Djibouti to finance their 100 KM) ConclusionWhile it appears that the cost of rail is cheaper per KM for if you compare the Kenyan Vs. Ethiopian costs, it is somewhat of a tomato to potato comparison because the Ethiopian side is electrified. If you add 20% that has been thrown around as the cost for electrification for the Kenyan side, the cost would be $3.12 billion for the Kenyan line which brings the cost to $5.12 Million vs 4.69 million per KM in Ethiopia. Considering that Ethiopia started building their rail in 2012 (time value of money) and differences in terrain and elevation due to urbanisation and Wildlife corridors in Kenya and the steep slopes in Ethiopia, the costs are roughly equal. All the noise about inflated costs is noise due to the reckless political brinkmanship and sloppy journalism in Kennya. In addition, the argument of the easterly railway between Addis Ababa and Djibouti being double track is false. That rail corridor is single track. The only double track is between Sebeta and Addis Ababa. Sebeta is a Special Economic Zone Town town that lies 115 KM Southwest of Addis Ababa. It is Akin to our Naivasha. If the Jubilee administration is serious about Naivasha becoming a formidable SEZ then here is where they borrow a leaf from our brothers in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia the railway is a national project of national importance, mind you there is a parallel track of similar vintage to Kenya's old meter gauge that runs parallel to the new Ethiopian SGR. There was no question or hapless noise about the merits or demerits of rehabilitating it or poorly researched articles in the Economist. FYIthere are 1500 trucks plying between Djibouti and Addis Ababa daily, VS 4300 between Mombasa and Nairobi and despite the fact that Kenya has per capita PP income of $3,304 vs Ethiopia $1431.85, i did not find one criticism anywhere that the Ethiopian line is expensive or unaffordable or that the Ethiopian State is being saddled by unsustainable debt. We do need some form of Illiberal democracy in Kenya, but that is an argument for another day. NOTE:The Ethiopian construction was begun without a complete design and standards like electrification were changed midway, so while the costs in the original contracts in 2012 were $1.2 and $1.62 billion for the 2 sections respectively, the costs ballooned as construction progressed. The true cost as mentioned in the Ethiopian Embassy newsletter in 2015 p.g 8 is close to $4.5 billion. This in my estimation is the real cost. (I am not convinced yet that it even covers the rolling stock) Looking at their contracts they seem to give them in piece meal to several contractors for the track, facilities, signaling and rolling stock probably because they fund a bigger percentage of their projects from their government and they always involve local (many times government owned corporations) partners and so they can dictate terms and reap the rewards of skills and technology transfer. Actually it was quite widely reported in China that the Addis Ababa - Djibouti Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 2 Standard. CRCC (CCECC's parent company) has specified that on their offical website, or you can read a google translated version here. On the other hand, the Mombasa - Nairobi Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 1 Standard. The main difference between the two standard is the Class 1 Standard is designed for a maximum operation speed of 200km/h with an annual freight tonnage greater than 20 million tonnes whereas the Class 2 Standard is designed for an operation speed of 120km/h and annual freight tonnage between 10 million and 20 million tonnes. Referenceshttp://www.railway-techn...com/fe...-line-4836968/
http://usa.chinadaily.co...orld/2...t_20765109.htm
http://china.aiddata.org/projects/1471
http://www.businessdaily....com/K...z/-/index.html
http://www.capitalethiop...ex...ject&Itemid=27
schupid analysis based on emotions and goggles Bring your intelligent analysis we measure you How can you call this stupid analysis yet you are not giving us yours? My advise to you is simple..you should visit the forum where this analysis was initially posted and see the kind of analysis people are posting backed by evidence. Now Ethiopia SGR is maxed speed at 120km/h, class 2 and KE 200km/h, class 1. If the Kenyan SGR is class 1 and designed to archieve up to "200km/h" (dream), what type of of class is for those Chinese line doing up to 350km/h? May be class 0. In the official documents kept in KR the top speed of our SGr is capped at 120km/h, even if you electrified it in future and the track design remains as current I dont see how it will manage 200km/h. But lets see, accept and move with them. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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murchr wrote:For those asking about the difference btn the ET line vs Ke C&P from another forum wrote:The total rail length is 609 Km. The distance from Mombasa to Nairobi is 472 KM. 137 KM (30%) will be eaten up by 2 marshaling yards at Mombasa and Nairobi and by the 30 passing and intermediate stations that will have up-to 3 lines to allow passing and picking up passengers at the stations. The cost of the railway infrastructure is $2.6 Billion and the rolling Stock is $1.146 Billion. That puts the cost per KM at $4.27 Million on the Kenyan side. Sebata-Addis Ababa-Meiso-Djibouti Border-Djibouti port total length 656 KM cost $4 Billion Cost per KM $6.09 million. This is the distance. If you add in about 30% (same ratio as Kenya since technology and contractors are similar) distance for intermediate stations, passing stations and marshalling yards etc it becomes about 852 KM which drops the cost to about $4.69 per KM. Sebata-Addis Ababa 115 KM is double track Addis Ababa-Meiso single track 214 KM Meiso-Djibouti Border single track 339 KM Djibouti Border-Djibouti port single track 100 KM Rolling StockKenya 43 diesel Cargo, 8 diesel shunting, 5 diesel passenger, 1,620 freight wagons and 40 passenger coaches and one simulator Ethiopia35 electric locomotives,6 diesel shunting, 1,100 freight wagons and 30 passenger coaches and one simulator. Key DifferencesThe Ethiopian line is electrified Virtually no land acquisition costs in Ethiopia. The government owns all the land. Since Ethiopia is an illiberal Democracy with a state controlled economy, it is impossible to find any third party information, research or criticism that does not come from a state source about the project thus making it very difficult to collaborate their claims on cost. FinancingKenya 10% $380 Million China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 90% $3.6 Billion Ethiopia Govt Contribution 30% $1 billion China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 70% $3 billion (of which $579 million went to Djibouti to finance their 100 KM) ConclusionWhile it appears that the cost of rail is cheaper per KM for if you compare the Kenyan Vs. Ethiopian costs, it is somewhat of a tomato to potato comparison because the Ethiopian side is electrified. If you add 20% that has been thrown around as the cost for electrification for the Kenyan side, the cost would be $3.12 billion for the Kenyan line which brings the cost to $5.12 Million vs 4.69 million per KM in Ethiopia. Considering that Ethiopia started building their rail in 2012 (time value of money) and differences in terrain and elevation due to urbanisation and Wildlife corridors in Kenya and the steep slopes in Ethiopia, the costs are roughly equal. All the noise about inflated costs is noise due to the reckless political brinkmanship and sloppy journalism in Kennya. In addition, the argument of the easterly railway between Addis Ababa and Djibouti being double track is false. That rail corridor is single track. The only double track is between Sebeta and Addis Ababa. Sebeta is a Special Economic Zone Town town that lies 115 KM Southwest of Addis Ababa. It is Akin to our Naivasha. If the Jubilee administration is serious about Naivasha becoming a formidable SEZ then here is where they borrow a leaf from our brothers in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia the railway is a national project of national importance, mind you there is a parallel track of similar vintage to Kenya's old meter gauge that runs parallel to the new Ethiopian SGR. There was no question or hapless noise about the merits or demerits of rehabilitating it or poorly researched articles in the Economist. FYIthere are 1500 trucks plying between Djibouti and Addis Ababa daily, VS 4300 between Mombasa and Nairobi and despite the fact that Kenya has per capita PP income of $3,304 vs Ethiopia $1431.85, i did not find one criticism anywhere that the Ethiopian line is expensive or unaffordable or that the Ethiopian State is being saddled by unsustainable debt. We do need some form of Illiberal democracy in Kenya, but that is an argument for another day. NOTE:The Ethiopian construction was begun without a complete design and standards like electrification were changed midway, so while the costs in the original contracts in 2012 were $1.2 and $1.62 billion for the 2 sections respectively, the costs ballooned as construction progressed. The true cost as mentioned in the Ethiopian Embassy newsletter in 2015 p.g 8 is close to $4.5 billion. This in my estimation is the real cost. (I am not convinced yet that it even covers the rolling stock) Looking at their contracts they seem to give them in piece meal to several contractors for the track, facilities, signaling and rolling stock probably because they fund a bigger percentage of their projects from their government and they always involve local (many times government owned corporations) partners and so they can dictate terms and reap the rewards of skills and technology transfer. Actually it was quite widely reported in China that the Addis Ababa - Djibouti Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 2 Standard. CRCC (CCECC's parent company) has specified that on their offical website, or you can read a google translated version here. On the other hand, the Mombasa - Nairobi Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 1 Standard. The main difference between the two standard is the Class 1 Standard is designed for a maximum operation speed of 200km/h with an annual freight tonnage greater than 20 million tonnes whereas the Class 2 Standard is designed for an operation speed of 120km/h and annual freight tonnage between 10 million and 20 million tonnes. Referenceshttp://www.railway-techn...com/fe...-line-4836968/
http://usa.chinadaily.co...orld/2...t_20765109.htm
http://china.aiddata.org/projects/1471
http://www.businessdaily....com/K...z/-/index.html
http://www.capitalethiop...ex...ject&Itemid=27
@Muchr, it would be nice if this were true and it possibly is. I generally believe Ethiopia tend to falsify every govt communication. It however only proves that both railways costs are overpriced. But we will take it, its better to do something badly than to do nothing. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Jitahidi wrote:murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:For those asking about the difference btn the ET line vs Ke C&P from another forum wrote:The total rail length is 609 Km. The distance from Mombasa to Nairobi is 472 KM. 137 KM (30%) will be eaten up by 2 marshaling yards at Mombasa and Nairobi and by the 30 passing and intermediate stations that will have up-to 3 lines to allow passing and picking up passengers at the stations. The cost of the railway infrastructure is $2.6 Billion and the rolling Stock is $1.146 Billion. That puts the cost per KM at $4.27 Million on the Kenyan side. Sebata-Addis Ababa-Meiso-Djibouti Border-Djibouti port total length 656 KM cost $4 Billion Cost per KM $6.09 million. This is the distance. If you add in about 30% (same ratio as Kenya since technology and contractors are similar) distance for intermediate stations, passing stations and marshalling yards etc it becomes about 852 KM which drops the cost to about $4.69 per KM. Sebata-Addis Ababa 115 KM is double track Addis Ababa-Meiso single track 214 KM Meiso-Djibouti Border single track 339 KM Djibouti Border-Djibouti port single track 100 KM Rolling StockKenya 43 diesel Cargo, 8 diesel shunting, 5 diesel passenger, 1,620 freight wagons and 40 passenger coaches and one simulator Ethiopia35 electric locomotives,6 diesel shunting, 1,100 freight wagons and 30 passenger coaches and one simulator. Key DifferencesThe Ethiopian line is electrified Virtually no land acquisition costs in Ethiopia. The government owns all the land. Since Ethiopia is an illiberal Democracy with a state controlled economy, it is impossible to find any third party information, research or criticism that does not come from a state source about the project thus making it very difficult to collaborate their claims on cost. FinancingKenya 10% $380 Million China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 90% $3.6 Billion Ethiopia Govt Contribution 30% $1 billion China EXIM Bank and Commercial Lenders 70% $3 billion (of which $579 million went to Djibouti to finance their 100 KM) ConclusionWhile it appears that the cost of rail is cheaper per KM for if you compare the Kenyan Vs. Ethiopian costs, it is somewhat of a tomato to potato comparison because the Ethiopian side is electrified. If you add 20% that has been thrown around as the cost for electrification for the Kenyan side, the cost would be $3.12 billion for the Kenyan line which brings the cost to $5.12 Million vs 4.69 million per KM in Ethiopia. Considering that Ethiopia started building their rail in 2012 (time value of money) and differences in terrain and elevation due to urbanisation and Wildlife corridors in Kenya and the steep slopes in Ethiopia, the costs are roughly equal. All the noise about inflated costs is noise due to the reckless political brinkmanship and sloppy journalism in Kennya. In addition, the argument of the easterly railway between Addis Ababa and Djibouti being double track is false. That rail corridor is single track. The only double track is between Sebeta and Addis Ababa. Sebeta is a Special Economic Zone Town town that lies 115 KM Southwest of Addis Ababa. It is Akin to our Naivasha. If the Jubilee administration is serious about Naivasha becoming a formidable SEZ then here is where they borrow a leaf from our brothers in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia the railway is a national project of national importance, mind you there is a parallel track of similar vintage to Kenya's old meter gauge that runs parallel to the new Ethiopian SGR. There was no question or hapless noise about the merits or demerits of rehabilitating it or poorly researched articles in the Economist. FYIthere are 1500 trucks plying between Djibouti and Addis Ababa daily, VS 4300 between Mombasa and Nairobi and despite the fact that Kenya has per capita PP income of $3,304 vs Ethiopia $1431.85, i did not find one criticism anywhere that the Ethiopian line is expensive or unaffordable or that the Ethiopian State is being saddled by unsustainable debt. We do need some form of Illiberal democracy in Kenya, but that is an argument for another day. NOTE:The Ethiopian construction was begun without a complete design and standards like electrification were changed midway, so while the costs in the original contracts in 2012 were $1.2 and $1.62 billion for the 2 sections respectively, the costs ballooned as construction progressed. The true cost as mentioned in the Ethiopian Embassy newsletter in 2015 p.g 8 is close to $4.5 billion. This in my estimation is the real cost. (I am not convinced yet that it even covers the rolling stock) Looking at their contracts they seem to give them in piece meal to several contractors for the track, facilities, signaling and rolling stock probably because they fund a bigger percentage of their projects from their government and they always involve local (many times government owned corporations) partners and so they can dictate terms and reap the rewards of skills and technology transfer. Actually it was quite widely reported in China that the Addis Ababa - Djibouti Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 2 Standard. CRCC (CCECC's parent company) has specified that on their offical website, or you can read a google translated version here. On the other hand, the Mombasa - Nairobi Railway was designed according to the Chinese National Railway Class 1 Standard. The main difference between the two standard is the Class 1 Standard is designed for a maximum operation speed of 200km/h with an annual freight tonnage greater than 20 million tonnes whereas the Class 2 Standard is designed for an operation speed of 120km/h and annual freight tonnage between 10 million and 20 million tonnes. Referenceshttp://www.railway-techn...com/fe...-line-4836968/
http://usa.chinadaily.co...orld/2...t_20765109.htm
http://china.aiddata.org/projects/1471
http://www.businessdaily....com/K...z/-/index.html
http://www.capitalethiop...ex...ject&Itemid=27
schupid analysis based on emotions and goggles Bring your intelligent analysis we measure you How can you call this stupid analysis yet you are not giving us yours? My advise to you is simple..you should visit the forum where this analysis was initially posted and see the kind of analysis people are posting backed by evidence. That's not my work,My work here is that of an auditor....To express opinion on analysis done by experts  If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Impunity wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Tokyo wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Impunity wrote:
There is a train and a tram...then we have light rail and heavy rail, then finally we have high speed train and "normal" speed train.
We also have bullet trains, there is also maglev trains and adhesion trains.
Google hizo terms zote kwanza then come we talk about fencing.
enyewe wewe ni engineer, let me first google that then respond, but does the Japanese shika-peni qualify as high speed thus fencing is needed, please answer then I will google those images. for the time being let me google high speed train in europe @impunity naomba usaidizi wako, is this a tram, normal or high speed All the train tracks High or normal speeds are fenced off in Japan. Same applies to all Highways, expressways and bypasses. The newest linear/Maglev 600plus km/hr under construction is all underground. Thank you @Tokyo, where were you 1,000 posts ago, guys have been on @impunity's arse for like a week You see, the Chinese charged the kenyan @wanjiku for a steel-and-concrete fenced railway track only to come back door and raised it (elevate) it some few meters above the ground with ugly-looking soil embankment hoping that it will serve the same purpose as a fence. It will not. May be if they elevate it to some 50m above ground. Questions have been asked as to why "our" SGR is almost twice as expensive as Ethiopian's yet the terrain between Mombasa and Nairobi is much less problematic than the Ethiopian's...in fact the land between Mombasa and Nairobi is generally flat and largely barren and inhabitted. The Ethiopian path is comparable to our Rift Valley. It will be interesting to see the actual cost the Chinese will charge for contructing the line from The Kikuyu escarpment all the way to Fort Tennan and onward to Lake side Citeh. Even if they pass through Narok and Bomet they will still have to descend the Kikuyu escarpment at Kijabe and join the Kisumu line around Kericho or Koru area. Hold your breathing. I have not come across, or rather I have not searched for the project cost and breakdown of the same, nasikia its hard to get the same, but it would be interesting to see to which areas the cash was allocated and by how much, but you are right the cost issue has been a thorny one, and all that is happening now is guys are just speculating, for the raised platform mimi nimesikia its to try and achieve as much level, avoid flooding issues and also avoid walevi. lakini hi mamo ya japan I have never been huko, I only travel via google images, thus the confusion on this fencing thing because I can see some images that contradict that, but anyway wacha we believe those who have been on the ground huko, they should know better. The picture is train station. That's why no visible fencing. Some notorious stations are fenced off opening only when the train stops. That's to prevent suicide which is very common. work to prosper
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