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Elade Attack
Boris Boyka
#301 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 12:20:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Intelligentsia wrote:
kollabo wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Reports say 110 terrorists killed after trying to attack Ethiopian base.





Never mess with the Ethiopian army. They are the most battle hardened military in Africa.
I bet they can fight for few days without food or water.


Reports indicate that immediately they received word of the attack, they sent in assault helicopters to cover their ground troops. This move changed everything


When 2 KDF companies (abt 160 troops) were ambushed at dawn by wave upon wave of > 800 al shaitans circa 2012 at their Hosingow FOB, they called in our 50th Air Calvary gunships which quickly made mince meat of the alkebabs and permanently turned the tide of the battle. At the end of this fierce battle at least 200 al shaitans lay dead as KIA.

So the issue of air support is a SOP for many militaries. Service commanders of each of the 3 wings have to work in tandem with the each other to vanquish the enemy - best case of this inter-forces cooperation
was in the capture of Kismayu.

Our mboys have done well with old equipment - can you imagine what they would do with modern equipment.




Really!!

The problem with Kenya is that we don't demand a high standard of performance from our public servants.

Our troops were caught pants down (literally as they were sleeping in their underwears) in enemy territory and got slaughtered wholesale without even offering any resistance.

There was no set defensive lines, they did not act on intelligence reports on imminent attacks as the entire town new AlShabab were coming?

Now you are talking about old equipment, could you share evidence to support this old equipment position, coz if I remember correctly, our military spend is the highest in the region, yet we have the fewest troop numbers.

Therefore, our cost per person is way higher than our neighbours, I bet its probably 4 or 5 times higher than Ethiopia's as Ethiopia has way more troops.

It's very clear you're yapping with imagination and no facts.
1. You're confusing two ir three incidences. @Intelligesia is talking about The Hosingo & Fafadun ones occurred in 2012 while you're referencing about the Elade 2015 one.
2. Old equipment is REAL fact. Money allocation is not a guarantee to proper use.
3. Kindly befriend one of the soldiers at mid level positions and make slow meaningful inquiry....
Otherwise you'll remain in the dark
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
Boris Boyka
#302 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 12:26:25 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
Intelligentsia wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
Intelligentsia wrote:
kollabo wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Reports say 110 terrorists killed after trying to attack Ethiopian base.





Never mess with the Ethiopian army. They are the most battle hardened military in Africa.
I bet they can fight for few days without food or water.


Reports indicate that immediately they received word of the attack, they sent in assault helicopters to cover their ground troops. This move changed everything


When 2 KDF companies (abt 160 troops) were ambushed at dawn by wave upon wave of > 800 al shaitans circa 2012 at their Hosingow FOB, they called in our 50th Air Calvary gunships which quickly made mince meat of the alkebabs and permanently turned the tide of the battle. At the end of this fierce battle at least 200 al shaitans lay dead as KIA.

So the issue of air support is a SOP for many militaries. Service commanders of each of the 3 wings have to work in tandem with the each other to vanquish the enemy - best case of this inter-forces cooperation
was in the capture of Kismayu.

Our mboys have done well with old equipment - can you imagine what they would do with modern equipment.



Applause Applause Applause
If you can't modernize your assets and equipment then however trained or brained the human resource is, you're bount to loose!


The V2030 KDF will be topnotch, judging from a Ministry of Defence White Paper 2016 paper I saw.

Let's hope Lessons learnt will be put into use otherwise many papers have been written in the past. If they're not adopted it will be a shell in near future.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
Obi 1 Kanobi
#303 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 12:39:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Boris Boyka wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Intelligentsia wrote:
kollabo wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Reports say 110 terrorists killed after trying to attack Ethiopian base.





Never mess with the Ethiopian army. They are the most battle hardened military in Africa.
I bet they can fight for few days without food or water.


Reports indicate that immediately they received word of the attack, they sent in assault helicopters to cover their ground troops. This move changed everything


When 2 KDF companies (abt 160 troops) were ambushed at dawn by wave upon wave of > 800 al shaitans circa 2012 at their Hosingow FOB, they called in our 50th Air Calvary gunships which quickly made mince meat of the alkebabs and permanently turned the tide of the battle. At the end of this fierce battle at least 200 al shaitans lay dead as KIA.

So the issue of air support is a SOP for many militaries. Service commanders of each of the 3 wings have to work in tandem with the each other to vanquish the enemy - best case of this inter-forces cooperation
was in the capture of Kismayu.

Our mboys have done well with old equipment - can you imagine what they would do with modern equipment.




Really!!

The problem with Kenya is that we don't demand a high standard of performance from our public servants.

Our troops were caught pants down (literally as they were sleeping in their underwears) in enemy territory and got slaughtered wholesale without even offering any resistance.

There was no set defensive lines, they did not act on intelligence reports on imminent attacks as the entire town new AlShabab were coming?

Now you are talking about old equipment, could you share evidence to support this old equipment position, coz if I remember correctly, our military spend is the highest in the region, yet we have the fewest troop numbers.

Therefore, our cost per person is way higher than our neighbours, I bet its probably 4 or 5 times higher than Ethiopia's as Ethiopia has way more troops.

It's very clear you're yapping with imagination and no facts.
1. You're confusing two ir three incidences. @Intelligesia is talking about The Hosingo & Fafadun ones occurred in 2012 while you're referencing about the Elade 2015 one.
2. Old equipment is REAL fact. Money allocation is not a guarantee to proper use.
3. Kindly befriend one of the soldiers at mid level positions and make slow meaningful inquiry....
Otherwise you'll remain in the dark


You are the one who doesn't know what they are talking about with regards to military equipment.

KDF troops (ok the elite Rangers) have been spotted with FN SCARS. Same Assault rifles used by the US Navy Seals.

Cost per troop is very relevant as it informs the available money for spending and modernization.

Stop talking to enlisted men, they don't know whats happening, they will probably misinform you. I remember their general said he wants D+ recruits.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Boris Boyka
#304 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 12:52:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Intelligentsia wrote:
kollabo wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Reports say 110 terrorists killed after trying to attack Ethiopian base.





Never mess with the Ethiopian army. They are the most battle hardened military in Africa.
I bet they can fight for few days without food or water.


Reports indicate that immediately they received word of the attack, they sent in assault helicopters to cover their ground troops. This move changed everything


When 2 KDF companies (abt 160 troops) were ambushed at dawn by wave upon wave of > 800 al shaitans circa 2012 at their Hosingow FOB, they called in our 50th Air Calvary gunships which quickly made mince meat of the alkebabs and permanently turned the tide of the battle. At the end of this fierce battle at least 200 al shaitans lay dead as KIA.

So the issue of air support is a SOP for many militaries. Service commanders of each of the 3 wings have to work in tandem with the each other to vanquish the enemy - best case of this inter-forces cooperation
was in the capture of Kismayu.

Our mboys have done well with old equipment - can you imagine what they would do with modern equipment.




Really!!

The problem with Kenya is that we don't demand a high standard of performance from our public servants.

Our troops were caught pants down (literally as they were sleeping in their underwears) in enemy territory and got slaughtered wholesale without even offering any resistance.

There was no set defensive lines, they did not act on intelligence reports on imminent attacks as the entire town new AlShabab were coming?

Now you are talking about old equipment, could you share evidence to support this old equipment position, coz if I remember correctly, our military spend is the highest in the region, yet we have the fewest troop numbers.

Therefore, our cost per person is way higher than our neighbours, I bet its probably 4 or 5 times higher than Ethiopia's as Ethiopia has way more troops.

It's very clear you're yapping with imagination and no facts.
1. You're confusing two ir three incidences. @Intelligesia is talking about The Hosingo & Fafadun ones occurred in 2012 while you're referencing about the Elade 2015 one.
2. Old equipment is REAL fact. Money allocation is not a guarantee to proper use.
3. Kindly befriend one of the soldiers at mid level positions and make slow meaningful inquiry....
Otherwise you'll remain in the dark


You are the one who doesn't know what they are talking about with regards to military equipment.

KDF troops (ok the elite Rangers) have been spotted with FN SCARS. Same Assault rifles used by the US Navy Seals.

Cost per troop is very relevant as it informs the available money for spending and modernization.

Stop talking to enlisted men, they don't know whats happening, they will probably misinform you. I remember their general said he wants D+ recruits.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Am laughing at you Obi. What did i mean by mid level? Anyway for good analysis youre to talk to from bottom soldiers to mid level leaders. A scar is just a personal weapon! There is much involved in winning a war as regards weapons, equipment, air assets, technological advancement e.t.c. Vet your Sources of information they maybe hiding something... The Training is okay and human resource is quite good.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
sitaki.kujulikana
#305 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01:15 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
killing and dying is not child play, ati demand high standard, heck even the Pearl Harbor guys were caught pants down, before you go on a self hating journey.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#306 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 1:41:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@Boris Boyka; What are our positions, you say we lack modern weapons, I say we don't (atleast when compared to our neighbours) I even gave an example to show that our best troops have the very best equipment, compared to none other than US Navy Seals.

We spend more on our army per soldier than Ethiopia but are getting less returns. So whats the problem?

@Sitakikujulikana.

You are obviously abit confused about this topic, so please stay away. Comparison to Ethiopia is not self hate, its a rational comparison with a peer. Burying our heads in the sand to our shortcomings will not make them go away.

By the way, Pearl harbour was a result of deception by Japan, if you can't read your history, then go watch the movie, its very factual on actual events!!

Ours was an ongoing war with a known enemy in enemy territory
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
chemirocha
#307 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 2:27:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:


We spend more on our army per soldier than Ethiopia but are getting less returns. So whats the problem?



Ethiopian military service is technically compulsory and Ethiopia manufactures its own military equipment internally. This keeps costs significantly down compared to the more modernized KDF.

Considering the number of internal and external disputes Ethiopia is involved in, I would not say they are getting better returns.
sitaki.kujulikana
#308 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 2:32:56 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Boris Boyka; What are our positions, you say we lack modern weapons, I say we don't (atleast when compared to our neighbours) I even gave an example to show that our best troops have the very best equipment, compared to none other than US Navy Seals.

We spend more on our army per soldier than Ethiopia but are getting less returns. So whats the problem?

@Sitakikujulikana.

You are obviously abit confused about this topic, so please stay away. Comparison to Ethiopia is not self hate, its a rational comparison with a peer. Burying our heads in the sand to our shortcomings will not make them go away.

By the way, Pearl harbour was a result of deception by Japan, if you can't read your history, then go watch the movie, its very factual on actual events!!

Ours was an ongoing war with a known enemy in enemy territory

sawa sawa, let me desist from commenting on the topic, smile mimi sijui history Pearl harbour was a deception and it was not an ongoing war.
naomba msamaha, wacha nita angalia tu kwa umbali. smile
sitaki.kujulikana
#309 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 2:35:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
naomba wazua prefect @alma aingilie kati, I need permission to make some noise, I can't hold it anymore
Intelligentsia
#310 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 3:58:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
chemirocha wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:


We spend more on our army per soldier than Ethiopia but are getting less returns. So whats the problem?



Ethiopian military service is technically compulsory and Ethiopia manufactures its own military equipment internally. This keeps costs significantly down compared to the more modernized KDF.

Considering the number of internal and external disputes Ethiopia is involved in, I would not say they are getting better returns.


Great geo-political u/standing thereApplause

@Obi 1 Kanobi - yes @Boris is point on on his earlier threads. I was specifically referring to the Hosingow and Fafadun engagements which were among the fiercest for KDF in OLN to illustrate that even Kenyan troops did and do call on close air support (CAS) when need arises.
True El Adde was a massacre & a wake up call, but they also have had victories that even made Karangi to be fetted by the gringos. But we must learn from this el adde and take short and long term measures.

Yes our elite forces do have the latest hardware (FN SCARS rifles,etc) but the regular forces are using old equipment- rem. for instance that we still use the antiquated F-5E fighter jets as our superiority fighter yet this bird is practically in museums in some countries.
Even the tiny attack chopper the MD 500 has seen better days. Good warriors that need replacements.

BTW all these were bought by Uhuru's dad when he was our prezzo with Uhunye barely in his teens - the same ndeges his dad would salute at on national holidays nearly 40 years ago are the same model that he saluted juzi on June 2016 Madaraka Day.
Same thing with many other hardware - like the small tanks (Panhard AML) - so tukubali equipment yetu ni mzee.
That is why there is a modernization program underway.

You mentioned our neighbours - sorry but Ug, Ethiopia even broke Eritrea have more advanced 4th generation fighters far superior to out F-5s. Plus other equipmnt.

Our military machine is old, ironical since we are the largest economy in the region with the highest defense spending yet we can't show for it.

But our HR and military doctrines are great - our greatest strength so far.



Boris Boyka
#311 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 6:29:24 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
@Obi in addition to what @intelligentsia says. Money allocated to defense is used for various items/votes as below though not conclusive or the right headings.
1. Salaries and allowances
2. Purchase and maintenance of Equipment ( weapon systems, vehicles, comms,A/c, MV's)
3. Training (New and continuos)
4. Expendables (Ammunition Ration Fuel Kitting e.t.c)
5. Other stores... e.t.c
Now let's concentrate on item 2.Air assets are vital in ALL modern militaries. From fighters to transport to surveillance aircrafts (A/C) including drones. Also we got Tanks, Artillery, Anti tanks, Support weapons, armoured fighting vehicles. Engineers equipment, personal night capable equipment e.t.c The questions are:
a. Did it receive enough allocation in the year?
b. We're the equipment bought and/or maintained within the period?
c. If they were bought, was it in the preferred quantity and of STANDARD/QUALITY relevant to current threat?
As said, in times of Kenyatta Kenya was ahead but has been deteriorating and as per now we're ahead of Somalia ONLY in the region. Owing to Non purchase at all, poor maintenance or purchase of Poor quality equipment.
Looking at the Numbers you got to analyze what are total numbers? What is the active/Deployable number? From this get the effective %. There are high chances of the "bigs" both internal and external having employed many of their kids heaped in HQs and logistics and cannot go to operations thus leaving a small overworked number despite the "large population"
Ethiopia has is superior in Numbers, superior equipment but inferior in training thus low quality HR. Uganda similarly. Museveni himself a soldier decides which equipment is to be procured. Tanzania is coming up. Kenyan Presidents having no background rely on what they're told. Some are truth some are lies! God forbid if Uganda goes aggressive
with current Somalia... We shall surrender early.
I hear there are reasonable Leaders there trying to mend things let's hope for the best.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
oltome
#312 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2016 2:20:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2012
Posts: 136
chemirocha
#313 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2016 3:58:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
oltome wrote:
https://www.ipinst.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/1607_Battle-at-El-Adde.pdf
How credible is that report


An expert analysis on the El Adde attack and the shortcomings of the mission in Somalia.

In summary the KDF base was too big for such a small number of soldiers to effectively defend. The report also claims KDF has a poor relationship with the local clans and there is poor coordination with Ethiopia which is in command of that sector.
Intelligentsia
#314 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2016 4:28:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
oltome wrote:
https://www.ipinst.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/1607_Battle-at-El-Adde.pdf
How credible is that report


thanks for sharing, although they have reiterated what is already known there are some good insights in there as well.
holycow
#315 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 8:42:53 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 972
Location: Home
Njung'e
#316 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 9:03:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
A prayer for our soldiers who are at Kulbiyow base
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Intelligentsia
#317 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 9:23:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
Hard to get info at the moment.
Appears an ambush, a backlash by Al Kefafu for the heat they have been feeling in Badhaadhe
guru267
#318 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 10:18:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
They must have run out of hostages and are looking to replenish
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
hardwood
#319 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 10:34:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Sad. Hii maneno ni ngumu.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#320 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 10:52:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Pole to the poor soldiers.

Another shameful capitulation by our military. Are we good enough to take on Alshabab?

Can't wait for the excuses from Boris Boyka and Intelligentsia to start flowing through.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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