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SENATE NOT REPRESENTATIVE AT ALL!!!
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B.Timer
#1 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 2:56:39 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
People, while focusing on Kadhi courts, Abortion, land policy etc, we seem to have forgotten of the very lopsided structure in representation at the senate, as suggested in the draft constitution.

Senate is the upper house whose clout overides that of parliament in power terms.

If I got it right, Counties that sponsor/elect a Senator each will be based on Districts as we had them in the 90s or so.

In that case let’s take a sneak view;

Luo Nyanza with 13% of Kenyas population, has Siaya, Kisumu and south Nyanza – 3 Senators.

Western 14% of Kenyans we have Busia Bungoma and Kakamega – 3 senators.

Ukambani has Machakos and Kitui commanding 11% of Kenyas population – 2 senators.

Greator Meru is just, Meru 6% of Kenya – 1 Senator.

Greater Embu 4% Kenya - 1 Senator.

Kisii and Kuria 7% of Kenya - 1 senator.

Compare this with the marginal groups ( population wise, overlooking the economic (in)significance) of Northern Kenya;
Together they have Isiolo, Marsabit, Moyale, Wajir, Mandera and Garissa, - a whooping 6 senate seats.

Never mind that these Kenyans constitute less that 5% of the country’s population.

What this means is that they have more say in the way Kenya is run than the Kamba and Luyias put together!!

I thought DEMOcracy is about government by the majority, - where each vote in the senate and Parliament is fairly weighted on the numbers represented by each of the elected member.

If that be so, then what we’ll have WHEN (it’s no longer a question of if) the referendum passes muster is a MINOcracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._ethnic_groups_in_Kenya

I don’t get it, help me understand, otherwise something got to give.
Dunia ni msongamano..
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, April 19, 2010 3:46 PM | Reason: Not specified
kadonye
#2 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 6:14:25 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Nice point there bro.Applause

I haven't read the thing but I heard Nairobi has 1 county.Central will have 5 counties.

But aren't your figures a bit false?Do people live in their shags anymore?I see most people buying property in the cities and their suburbs thus we cant assume that western is 14% of the population while most of those guys are here in Nairobi!

And if we shift it to tribal nos. instead of area populations, who will speak for Nairobi?

The bottom line...the purpose of the legislature is to make laws.We elect reps coz we cant all go in and engage in decision making thus we must have some sensible ratio.Otherwise we'll have some Kenyans who have bigger voices than others
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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B.Timer
#3 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:13:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
@Kadonye
Thanks for patting my back, and presenting me a fair challenge all in the same breath, or is stroke of the pen/keyboard…..

You are quite right that regions' population keep varying, as people stay on the move, in and out.

For arguments sake, one may want to treat this factor as constant, since it applies across the board.

For as much as people are moving out of Western part of Kenya to say Nairobi, so are people moving out of Garissa and elsewhere to Estleigh!!

But then again, one may also argue that if the outflow if 15% of the region’s total, in inflow could be anywhere around 5%. Go to western and you will find fellows from Eastern, Central etc. That would then mean that the areas population is only compromised marginally.

If the previous voters register is anything to go by, this remains largely the case.

I didn’t mean to bring forth a ethnic contestations sort of argument, though I do realize that we need not sweep facts under the carpet, too ashamed to face them.
We must begin to appreciate that Kenya has ethnic groups and that need not be evil.

Bottom line; Senate is hopelessly unrepresentative.
We ought to do something about it, and do so pronto.
Dunia ni msongamano..
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:33 AM | Reason: Not specified
Fundaah
#4 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:38:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
The section on senate

66
Membership of the Senate
98. (1) The Senate consists of—
(a) forty-seven members each elected by the registered voters of the
counties, each county constituting a single member constituency;
(b) sixteen women members who shall be nominated by political parties
according to their proportion of members of the Senate elected under
clause (a) in accordance with Article 90;
(c) two members, being one man and one woman, representing the youth;
(d) two members, being one man and one woman, representing persons
with disabilities; and
(e) the Speaker, who shall be an ex officio member.
(2) The members mentioned in clause (1) (c) and (d) shall be elected in
accordance with Article 90.
(3) Nothing in this Article shall be construed as excluding any person from
contesting an election under clause (1) (a).

FIRST SCHEDULE
(Article 6 (1))
COUNTIES


1. Mombasa
2. Kwale
3. Kilifi
4. Tana River
5. Lamu
6. Taita/Taveta
7. Garissa
8. Wajir
9. Mandera
10. Marsabit
11. Isiolo
12. Meru .
13. Tharaka-Nithi
14. Embu
15. Kitui
16. Machakos
17. Makueni
18. Nyandarua
19. Nyeri
20. Kirinyaga
21. Murang'a
22. Kiambu
23. Turkana
24. West Pokot
25. Samburu
26. Trans Nzoia
27. Uasin Gishu
28. Elgeyo/Marakwet
29. Nandi
30. Baringo
31. Laikipia
32. Nakuru
33. Narok
34. Kajiado
35. Kericho
36. Bomet
37. Kakamega
38. Vihiga
39. Bungoma
40. Busia
41. Siaya
42. Kisumu
43. Homa Bay
44. Migori
45. Kisii
46. Nyamira
47. Nairobi City

I think the counties as they are above will open up previously marginalised areas .....Since Nairobi is where all the educated and enlightened people want to be ....they can fight for themselves ....Lets have Garissa and north eastern be developed ...if the senate will have the clout and we will be able to fill our largely unpopulated country .....Also dont forget that we will now have more MPs who will represent us .....senate will be elected by voters....just as MPs....and will be in Compe with MPs.. which is good for us




Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:49 AM | Reason: Not specified
Fundaah
#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:47:24 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
and B.Timer Ukambani has three senators


15. Kitui
16. Machakos
17. Makueni
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:22 AM | Reason: Not specified
kizee
#6 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:47:49 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
@b timer

how many more mps will be added? i will vote no..i doubt the country can sustain all those salaries...very soon VAT will hit 32% and PAYE 50% to fund government largesse
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Fundaah
#7 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:00:31 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Kizee....before you say No to increased MPs ...please note that the provincial administration will be restructured to accord with and respect the system of devolved government
established under the new Constitution within five years after the effective date....

This will bring much savings as we will have 47 administration officials leading the 47 counties instead of 8 PCs and hundreds of DCs(I have lost track of how many Districts we have today)......
SAWA?



SIXTH SCHEDULE
(Article 262)
TRANSITIONAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL PROVISIONS
Part 1—General


Provincial Administration
17. Within five years after the effective date, the national government shall
restructure the system of administration commonly known as the provincial
administration to accord with and respect the system of devolved government
established under this Constitution.....


The tragic thing is that most of us ....have made their decisions without reading and understanding this Draft....

Please take you time to read the Draft ....and ask where you dont understand.....
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:21 AM | Reason: Not specified
B.Timer
#8 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:28:10 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
@ Fundah
I stand corrected on the number of senate seats in some of the regions.

However, Embu's population is more or less equal to the total of Isiolo, Marsabit, Moyale, Wajir, Manera and Garissa put togerther.
While Embu has a meek 1 senate position, the others command 6 seats between themselves.

That's undemocratic.

To argue that since they've since been under-developed, then its okay for them to carry 'VETO' power in the senate is to miss the point.

Senate will make major decisions on the trajectory that Kenya will take from time to time.
Such a body need be as representative as humanly possible under the circumstances.

We shouldnt have a situation of rule by the minority over the majority!!!
That my point.
Dunia ni msongamano..
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:29 PM | Reason: Not specified
Fundaah
#9 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:32:50 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Please also consider the Land area covered by the Isiolo, Marsabit, Moyale, Wajir, Mandera and Garissa( remember isiolo is the center of Kenya!!!!!) put together..... and compare that with Embu...

Develop that area and people being mobile and with freedom of movement guaranteed....the population will exceed Embu....

As I said Kenya is largely ...Underpopulated .....by underdevelopment in some regions ....yet we have unexploited resources in those regions
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:41 AM | Reason: Not specified
kizee
#10 Posted : Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:14:44 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
Fundaah wrote:
Kizee....before you say No to increased MPs ...please note that the provincial administration will be restructured to accord with and respect the system of devolved government
established under the new Constitution within five years after the effective date....

This will bring much savings as we will have 47 administration officials leading the 47 counties instead of 8 PCs and hundreds of DCs(I have lost track of how many Districts we have today)......
SAWA?



SIXTH SCHEDULE
(Article 262)
TRANSITIONAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL PROVISIONS
Part 1—General


Provincial Administration
17. Within five years after the effective date, the national government shall
restructure the system of administration commonly known as the provincial
administration to accord with and respect the system of devolved government
established under this Constitution.....


The tragic thing is that most of us ....have made their decisions without reading and understanding this Draft....

Please take you time to read the Draft ....and ask where you dont understand.....



how will getting rid of 8 pcs cut costs? i really doubt a country with a population of 40million needs that many layers of fat...please explain to me where the money to fund this largesse will come from?
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