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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
mkate_nusu
#4441 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2016 1:50:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Kayole
[quote=obiero]this editorial in today's paper is the first well thought piece I have read from any paper this year http://www.businessdaily.../-/oothqdz/-/index.html[/quote]

Talking about editorials seems these foreign airlines are thriving here

Lufthansa deploys larger planes on Nairobi route

German airline Lufthansa is set to deploy larger aircraft and increase its frequencies on the Nairobi Frankfurt route on ‘huge demand’.
KEGN, KPLC, KQ, SCOM
Thiong'o
#4442 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:08:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 661
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Forget about borrowing 10bn to pay off redundant, incompetent or thieving staff. Enter into bankruptcy and fire their arses.

labor laws.. and law suits would be cheaper? plus which national airline with substantial govt holding has ever filed for bankruptcy

What's the status of Air Tanzania?
Why shouldn't an airline with substantial government holding file for bankruptcy instead of wasting taxpayer funds?

The Futility of the Government Airline Bailout
Government Assistance Does Not Guarantee Business Success

https://fee.org/articles...rnment-airline-bailout/

Another airline with government shares goes bankrupt.
JAL files for bankruptcy in record failure
http://www.japantimes.co...ptcy-in-record-failure/



I fail to understand why one would want the national carrier dead, someone once said “It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.”
it’s understandable that sustaining national carrier is no walk in the park -the airline industry is fraught with difficulties eg Governments restricting competition, case in point being that it took the total collapse of Air Malawi for Kenya Airways to be allowed to operate flights between Malawi, High cost etc. http://www.afdb.org/en/b...african-airlines-12723/

Look at the brighter side! Africa’s air transport industry is dominated by three large national flag carriers, South African Airlines, Ethiopian Airlines and Kenya Airways. There is an intangible warm feeling for many customers in boarding an aircraft that represent elements of their own national culture and possibly with the national flag on the tail and many countries provide generous subsidies to their national “flag” carriers.

Govt is doing its best. http://www.businessdaily...4/-/l14yi5/-/index.html
VituVingiSana
#4443 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:46:16 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,298
Location: Nairobi
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#4444 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2016 5:52:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,069
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

KQ ABP 4.26
VituVingiSana
#4445 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2016 6:11:53 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,298
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#4446 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2016 8:43:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,069
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.

the name KQ alone is worth about 112 billion. your ideas sound fine but in utopian state

KQ ABP 4.26
VituVingiSana
#4447 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 9:28:19 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,298
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.

the name KQ alone is worth about 112 billion. your ideas sound fine but in utopian state

@Obiero -
1) Why aren't you putting in ALL your money into KQ?
2) How many shares in KQ does Mbuvi own?
3) What is Mbuvi's salary?

Are you telling me that KQ's brand is worth KES 112bn? Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
maka
#4448 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:24:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
COO interviews done...I believe they have gotten a proper replacement for Guibert.
possunt quia posse videntur
ArrestedDev
#4449 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:49:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/29/2016
Posts: 898
Location: Nairobi
maka wrote:
COO interviews done...I believe they have gotten a proper replacement for Guibert.



@maka, what about the fate of the CEO? Any update?
obiero
#4450 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 2:25:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,069
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.

the name KQ alone is worth about 112 billion. your ideas sound fine but in utopian state

@Obiero -
1) Why aren't you putting in ALL your money into KQ?
2) How many shares in KQ does Mbuvi own?
3) What is Mbuvi's salary?

Are you telling me that KQ's brand is worth KES 112bn? Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

KQ is a global trademark. Even Msafiri alone could be worth KK which is a regional thing that struggles for market share in its home territory unlike KQ which is a dominant player at home and beyond. Hizi profit zitakuja, just wait and learn

KQ ABP 4.26
nzalela
#4451 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 2:39:58 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 4/11/2016
Posts: 30
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.



It would work in other industries but not in aviation. The Air Operators Certificate is the license an airline needs to operate and is issued after demonstrating sufficient managerial,financial and safety capacities. If you shut down your AOC goes down with you and if you change even a coma in your name you have to start the process from scratch. Just an example ...Jambo jet after 2 years still does not have its own AOC and is thus operating on KQ's AOC.By the time the new "KQ phoenix " gets its licence the market share will be cleaned out by vulture foreighn airlines. There is also lots of goodwill embedded in the brand in terms of supplier credit,airport passenger handling experience, airport landing slots and most important the regulators i.e KCAA,IATA.

I wouldnt call KQ a zombie airline. They have solid revenues, a functional operations system and an enviable african footprint. At some point last year for a month during the summer schedule they hit the ever elusive 80% cabin factor. They have just been overspending and wasting the cash. Mckinsey are doing a decent job so far in curbing the waste.Once they get bailout funds plus a solid management team with aviation experience KQ will be back on track. Delta was in similar shape but look at it now.

Question is....Is the board willing to take the necessary management change steps? Is there a serious conflict of interest even within the board.?The longer they wait the harder it becomes.
Impunity
#4452 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 3:16:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
ArrestedDev wrote:
maka wrote:
COO interviews done...I believe they have gotten a proper replacement for Guibert.



@maka, what about the fate of the CEO? Any update?


Sealed.
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

ArrestedDev
#4453 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 3:22:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/29/2016
Posts: 898
Location: Nairobi
Impunity wrote:
ArrestedDev wrote:
maka wrote:
COO interviews done...I believe they have gotten a proper replacement for Guibert.



@maka, what about the fate of the CEO? Any update?


Sealed.


Good news. Any tentative exit date?
ArrestedDev
#4454 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 5:42:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/29/2016
Posts: 898
Location: Nairobi
nzalela wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.



It would work in other industries but not in aviation. The Air Operators Certificate is the license an airline needs to operate and is issued after demonstrating sufficient managerial,financial and safety capacities. If you shut down your AOC goes down with you and if you change even a coma in your name you have to start the process from scratch. Just an example ...Jambo jet after 2 years still does not have its own AOC and is thus operating on KQ's AOC.By the time the new "KQ phoenix " gets its licence the market share will be cleaned out by vulture foreighn airlines. There is also lots of goodwill embedded in the brand in terms of supplier credit,airport passenger handling experience, airport landing slots and most important the regulators i.e KCAA,IATA.

I wouldnt call KQ a zombie airline. They have solid revenues, a functional operations system and an enviable african footprint. At some point last year for a month during the summer schedule they hit the ever elusive 80% cabin factor. They have just been overspending and wasting the cash. Mckinsey are doing a decent job so far in curbing the waste.Once they get bailout funds plus a solid management team with aviation experience KQ will be back on track. Delta was in similar shape but look at it now.

Question is....Is the board willing to take the necessary management change steps? Is there a serious conflict of interest even within the board.?The longer they wait the harder it becomes.


@nzalela, It seems you have some privileged information regarding KQ, what about the flaws in fuel procurement? Have they been addressed? What is bedeviling KQ is what we have said here - internal bleeding and competing interest from many players including employees and the political elite through proxies.

The proposal by @VVS is practical and it depends on which angle you look at. The goodwill that KQ have from suppliers, passengers, employees and other stakeholders is very huge and I understand. It will take a tall order to get rid of the management totally and the many conflicting interests surrounding it. With respect to AOC, It can be done especially if it has the backing of the government, transfer of assets can be done gradually. If KQ management was serious enough, Jambojet should be having it's own AOC. They never anticipated that Fastjet will be given a go ahead to fly to Nairobi. You remember they had filed an objection but when the new director general of KCAA took over and the matter came before him, he granted them. Fastjet will also get an AOC very soon as they recently got the ASL and they will start domestic flights in Kenya. It is about leadership. The pilots even raised the issue of Jambojet AOC with KQ management when they were in a tug of war with leasing of the Q400 with pilots (wet lease). Ideally, an airline without an AOC cannot enter into a wet lease agreement.

There are some bottle necks that will arise in respect to what @VVS is proposing. The anticipated full clean up of contracts wont be realised in full. The loans used to acquire majority of the new aircrafts are guaranteed by shell companies and it is only when the repayments are done in full that the title of ownership is transferred to KQ. From the latter, the new outfit 'phoenix' as @VVS calls it will still assume these contrasts unless a huge capital injection to the new outfit is done to pay off these loans.Many other issues to be dealt with will arise e.g. employees who will be declared redundant. If they move to court, the new outfit may not escape liability although it will be a different corporate entity from the old KQ.
obiero
#4455 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 6:10:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,069
Location: nairobi
@nzalela @arresteddev @maka are all KQ senior employees

KQ ABP 4.26
VituVingiSana
#4456 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 7:30:51 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,298
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
@nzalela @arresteddev @maka are all KQ senior employees

Everyone but the shareholders make money off KQ.

@Nzalela @maka @Obiero

1) If you believe in KQ, do you have most of your net worth in KQ?
2) Does Mbuvi have shares in KQ? How many?

@Obiero talks the talk but has very little invested in KQ.

@Obiero - Do you get perks/upgrades/paid by KQ or any of the PR folks?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#4457 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 7:46:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,069
Location: nairobi
nzalela wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.



It would work in other industries but not in aviation. The Air Operators Certificate is the license an airline needs to operate and is issued after demonstrating sufficient managerial,financial and safety capacities. If you shut down your AOC goes down with you and if you change even a coma in your name you have to start the process from scratch. Just an example ...Jambo jet after 2 years still does not have its own AOC and is thus operating on KQ's AOC.By the time the new "KQ phoenix " gets its licence the market share will be cleaned out by vulture foreighn airlines. There is also lots of goodwill embedded in the brand in terms of supplier credit,airport passenger handling experience, airport landing slots and most important the regulators i.e KCAA,IATA.

I wouldnt call KQ a zombie airline. They have solid revenues, a functional operations system and an enviable african footprint. At some point last year for a month during the summer schedule they hit the ever elusive 80% cabin factor. They have just been overspending and wasting the cash. Mckinsey are doing a decent job so far in curbing the waste.Once they get bailout funds plus a solid management team with aviation experience KQ will be back on track. Delta was in similar shape but look at it now.

Question is....Is the board willing to take the necessary management change steps? Is there a serious conflict of interest even within the board.?The longer they wait the harder it becomes.

lovely insights from @nzalela.. simply accurate and eye opening to the blind. KQ is a long term holding for the bold investor. Timid men and women should keep distance and comment on other stocks such as HAFR, KK & Mumias

KQ ABP 4.26
Spikes
#4458 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 8:04:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
obiero wrote:
nzalela wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.



It would work in other industries but not in aviation. The Air Operators Certificate is the license an airline needs to operate and is issued after demonstrating sufficient managerial,financial and safety capacities. If you shut down your AOC goes down with you and if you change even a coma in your name you have to start the process from scratch. Just an example ...Jambo jet after 2 years still does not have its own AOC and is thus operating on KQ's AOC.By the time the new "KQ phoenix " gets its licence the market share will be cleaned out by vulture foreighn airlines. There is also lots of goodwill embedded in the brand in terms of supplier credit,airport passenger handling experience, airport landing slots and most important the regulators i.e KCAA,IATA.

I wouldnt call KQ a zombie airline. They have solid revenues, a functional operations system and an enviable african footprint. At some point last year for a month during the summer schedule they hit the ever elusive 80% cabin factor. They have just been overspending and wasting the cash. Mckinsey are doing a decent job so far in curbing the waste.Once they get bailout funds plus a solid management team with aviation experience KQ will be back on track. Delta was in similar shape but look at it now.

Question is....Is the board willing to take the necessary management change steps? Is there a serious conflict of interest even within the board.?The longer they wait the harder it becomes.

lovely insights from @nzalela.. simply accurate and eye opening to the blind. KQ is a long term holding for the bold investor. Timid men and women should keep distance and comment on other stocks such as HAFR, KK & Mumias



@obiero you mean to assert that KK is a new, abnormal zombie at the exchange?
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
obiero
#4459 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:40:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,069
Location: nairobi
Spikes wrote:
obiero wrote:
nzalela wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.



It would work in other industries but not in aviation. The Air Operators Certificate is the license an airline needs to operate and is issued after demonstrating sufficient managerial,financial and safety capacities. If you shut down your AOC goes down with you and if you change even a coma in your name you have to start the process from scratch. Just an example ...Jambo jet after 2 years still does not have its own AOC and is thus operating on KQ's AOC.By the time the new "KQ phoenix " gets its licence the market share will be cleaned out by vulture foreighn airlines. There is also lots of goodwill embedded in the brand in terms of supplier credit,airport passenger handling experience, airport landing slots and most important the regulators i.e KCAA,IATA.

I wouldnt call KQ a zombie airline. They have solid revenues, a functional operations system and an enviable african footprint. At some point last year for a month during the summer schedule they hit the ever elusive 80% cabin factor. They have just been overspending and wasting the cash. Mckinsey are doing a decent job so far in curbing the waste.Once they get bailout funds plus a solid management team with aviation experience KQ will be back on track. Delta was in similar shape but look at it now.

Question is....Is the board willing to take the necessary management change steps? Is there a serious conflict of interest even within the board.?The longer they wait the harder it becomes.

lovely insights from @nzalela.. simply accurate and eye opening to the blind. KQ is a long term holding for the bold investor. Timid men and women should keep distance and comment on other stocks such as HAFR, KK & Mumias



@obiero you mean to assert that KK is a new, abnormal zombie at the exchange?

nope. just don't like the share personally and one of it's most vocal proponents. wanted to rub the dude, the wrong way

KQ ABP 4.26
Spikes
#4460 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:49:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
obiero wrote:
Spikes wrote:
obiero wrote:
nzalela wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Quite stupid to have a loss-making "National Carrier" when another stronger airline could be rise from the ashes.

If GoK is going to finance/bail out the airline, why not bail out every failing enterprise?
Even worse, KQ is in it's current state largely because of corruption AND incompetence NOT circumstances beyond their control.

The CFO was on the take. Even an ardent supporter like @Obiero will tell you that.
The Finance Staff was siphoning money through funny deals.
The former CEO was arrogantly saying he would rather raise cows.

This bullshit of 'sovereignty', 'national airlines', etc has been fed to us by crooks.
Why not reduce taxes by 20bn on enterprises that CREATE value? Give the factories a tax break. They create jobs for Kenyans. Give the farmers a tax break. They create real wealth. The tea farmers complain of high taxes, the coffee farmers of cartels, the pyrethrum farmers of delayed payments.

I support and fly KQ as an AIRLINE but I cannot support the BUSINESS.

KQ has always been profitable. If I could I would buy the entire airline and make it tick. Rapid expansion and the attendant corrupted environment did us in.. However, at the moment we are on track to profits in less than 9months. The audits have also strengthened control. PJT are yet to show the silver bullet, which would turn fortunes.. Let's wait and see

@Obiero - If you step back as a shareholder... think what's best for KQ and Kenya.

KQ can still operate in 'bankruptcy' [let's use RESTRUCTURING] without the need to take on more loans subsidized or guaranteed by taxpayers. Employees can sue the 'old' KQ [call it KQ] but a new KQ [call it Phoenix] can still fly using planes leased or bought from KQ.

Phoenix hires or leases staff from KQ. The good staff. None of those incompetent or corrupt staff. Mbuvi would hopefully know who is who.

Phoenix hires or leases aircraft from KQ. The aircraft it needs. Mbuvi would hopefully know what he needs. Some of the aircraft leases can even be transferred to Phoenix from KQ.

Phoenix can enter into new deals with suppliers without the 'kickbacks' negotiated by Mbugua & his team. Genuine suppliers will be pissed off at KQ but many will understand and supply Phoenix as long as Phoenix pays.

The same goes for agents, etc.

It's not an easy path but I would rather have a SMALLER but PROFITABLE airline that is sustainable.

KQ's Operating Profit will be eaten up by staff rationalization. Under Phoenix, there are no staff to fire since they are either staff KQ wants OR have leased from KQ.

If KQ needs 10bn to pay off staff then 2016-17 will be a huge charge for that which will drag down the PBT back into loss territory.

We need a sane discussion about bailing out taxpayer funded zombie firms. I believe that zombie firms should be killed off [Walking Dead] and let the 'phoenix' rise if there is one inside.



It would work in other industries but not in aviation. The Air Operators Certificate is the license an airline needs to operate and is issued after demonstrating sufficient managerial,financial and safety capacities. If you shut down your AOC goes down with you and if you change even a coma in your name you have to start the process from scratch. Just an example ...Jambo jet after 2 years still does not have its own AOC and is thus operating on KQ's AOC.By the time the new "KQ phoenix " gets its licence the market share will be cleaned out by vulture foreighn airlines. There is also lots of goodwill embedded in the brand in terms of supplier credit,airport passenger handling experience, airport landing slots and most important the regulators i.e KCAA,IATA.

I wouldnt call KQ a zombie airline. They have solid revenues, a functional operations system and an enviable african footprint. At some point last year for a month during the summer schedule they hit the ever elusive 80% cabin factor. They have just been overspending and wasting the cash. Mckinsey are doing a decent job so far in curbing the waste.Once they get bailout funds plus a solid management team with aviation experience KQ will be back on track. Delta was in similar shape but look at it now.

Question is....Is the board willing to take the necessary management change steps? Is there a serious conflict of interest even within the board.?The longer they wait the harder it becomes.

lovely insights from @nzalela.. simply accurate and eye opening to the blind. KQ is a long term holding for the bold investor. Timid men and women should keep distance and comment on other stocks such as HAFR, KK & Mumias



@obiero you mean to assert that KK is a new, abnormal zombie at the exchange?

nope. just don't like the share personally and one of it's most vocal proponents. wanted to rub the dude, the wrong way



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