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Centum FY2016 div comeback 1/- net profit +25%
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/10/2014 Posts: 992 Location: Kenya
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enyands wrote:murchr wrote:guru267 wrote:Management paid themselves a bonus of less than 10% of PBT... What's the big deal? This is the market average isnt it???
This same management has worked their butts off to grow shareholder wealth over the years..
Some cry baby is selling shares because of that... All I say is Sayonara!! How much has management given to shareholders? Hio ndio shida. DJ Bags 200M Around 17m per month from just one company, what does he even do with all that money? He should now ship in a couple of Bentleys as escort cars for his Maybach
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/24/2015 Posts: 154 Location: Nairobi
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enyands wrote:What wealth has grown if it has not been showing on the dividends and share price? What they have been doing is growing their employee wealth that's the bottom line .
Infact my share is way less than what I bought. If you bought yours earlier when it was 16 lucky you.So when you talk about wealth then heaven speak to me as a shareholder since I see no wealth in my dry bank account.EXCEPT that the wealth of 1 billion going to employees last year and 600m this year.Hope you got your answer .So explain to me like a baby who is about to be done crying what wealth you are talking of that has be grown,of which you can say yes this is mine ,if not silent be it ...
The wealth is there it is just currently undervalued. Since you asked for a simple explanation, I will give one: market value and book value are not the same thing. Sometimes there is a pricing mismatch, as there is today. Centum’s NAV is a conservative estimate of the intrinsic value of the company and the share price is way below this level. This is the textbook definition of an undervalued company and, therefore, a fantastic buying opportunity. If everyone recognized the value of the company, and the price reflected it, it would not be. If you bought when the company was overvalued or even fairly valued, then life is hard right now. But only if you want/need to sell. If you hang on to the stock or, preferably, buy into it more, you will do very, very well. Personally, I would rather have seen a share buyback than a dividend. If the company's board and management think the company is undervalued, as I am sure they do, they should have proposed a Shs 600m share buyback. I would have held mine, realising a paper gain. You would, presumably, have sold yours, realising a real gain. And we both would have been happier.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/20/2015 Posts: 2,811 Location: Mombasa
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researchfirst wrote:enyands wrote:What wealth has grown if it has not been showing on the dividends and share price? What they have been doing is growing their employee wealth that's the bottom line .
Infact my share is way less than what I bought. If you bought yours earlier when it was 16 lucky you.So when you talk about wealth then heaven speak to me as a shareholder since I see no wealth in my dry bank account.EXCEPT that the wealth of 1 billion going to employees last year and 600m this year.Hope you got your answer .So explain to me like a baby who is about to be done crying what wealth you are talking of that has be grown,of which you can say yes this is mine ,if not silent be it ...
The wealth is there it is just currently undervalued. Since you asked for a simple explanation, I will give one: market value and book value are not the same thing. Sometimes there is a pricing mismatch, as there is today. Centum’s NAV is a conservative estimate of the intrinsic value of the company and the share price is way below this level. This is the textbook definition of an undervalued company and, therefore, a fantastic buying opportunity. If everyone recognized the value of the company, and the price reflected it, it would not be. If you bought when the company was overvalued or even fairly valued, then life is hard right now. But only if you want/need to sell. If you hang on to the stock or, preferably, buy into it more, you will do very, very well. Personally, I would rather have seen a share buyback than a dividend. If the company's board and management think the company is undervalued, as I am sure they do, they should have proposed a Shs 600m share buyback. I would have held mine, realising a paper gain. You would, presumably, have sold yours, realising a real gain. And we both would have been happier. In Kenya there is no law on share buyback. It was curtailed by AG last year. John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,349 Location: Nairobi
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guru267 wrote:enyands wrote:murchr wrote:guru267 wrote:Management paid themselves a bonus of less than 10% of PBT... What's the big deal? This is the market average isnt it???
This same management has worked their butts off to grow shareholder wealth over the years..
Some cry baby is selling shares because of that... All I say is Sayonara!! How much has management given to shareholders? Hio ndio shida. DJ Bags 200M To consider dividend as the only source of return is narrow thinking... Also From management's point of view... Would I rather pay bonus to retain a key return generating staff member or pay dividends to retain a cry baby Wanjiku shareholder... Its a no brainer  Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,349 Location: Nairobi
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researchfirst wrote:enyands wrote:What wealth has grown if it has not been showing on the dividends and share price? What they have been doing is growing their employee wealth that's the bottom line .
Infact my share is way less than what I bought. If you bought yours earlier when it was 16 lucky you.So when you talk about wealth then heaven speak to me as a shareholder since I see no wealth in my dry bank account.EXCEPT that the wealth of 1 billion going to employees last year and 600m this year.Hope you got your answer .So explain to me like a baby who is about to be done crying what wealth you are talking of that has be grown,of which you can say yes this is mine ,if not silent be it ...
The wealth is there it is just currently undervalued. Since you asked for a simple explanation, I will give one: market value and book value are not the same thing. Sometimes there is a pricing mismatch, as there is today. Centum’s NAV is a conservative estimate of the intrinsic value of the company and the share price is way below this level. This is the textbook definition of an undervalued company and, therefore, a fantastic buying opportunity. If everyone recognized the value of the company, and the price reflected it, it would not be. If you bought when the company was overvalued or even fairly valued, then life is hard right now. But only if you want/need to sell. If you hang on to the stock or, preferably, buy into it more, you will do very, very well. Personally, I would rather have seen a share buyback than a dividend. If the company's board and management think the company is undervalued, as I am sure they do, they should have proposed a Shs 600m share buyback. I would have held mine, realising a paper gain. You would, presumably, have sold yours, realising a real gain. And we both would have been happier. Warren Buffett's thoughts! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 930
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researchfirst wrote:guru267 wrote:Management paid themselves a bonus of less than 10% of PBT... What's the big deal? This is the market average isnt it???
This same management has worked their butts off to grow shareholder wealth over the years..
Some cry baby is selling shares because of that... All I say is Sayonara!! I agree completely. All salaries, bonuses, etc. are, by definition, "at the expense" of owners. There is always a balance to be struck between who gets what. I think this balance is working, which is why I am an owner. For those of you who are not, Centum's share price has always tracked NAV closely. It is now trading at around 20% less than NAV per share. This is a no-brainer investment. You could be creating wealth for share holders while unfairly stealing from them. Are they employees or fund managers? Centum employees are paid salaries which i can assure are no peanuts and are in tandem with their contributions to the groups growth. I do agree on bonus payment for excellent results but their style of bonus pay is outright thuggery. The bonuses should be a fixed amount or a percentage of their salaries. Awarding bonuses as a percentage of a company's profit can lead to enormous bonus figures and is simply doubling as an employee and a fund manager who are paid management fee based on portfolio returns. Its unfair that bonuses to employees exceeds dividends to all shareholders. As much as the employees credit themselves for the good performance, credit should also go to shareholders for providing the capital. I see these employees becoming bigger than the company one day. “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/24/2015 Posts: 154 Location: Nairobi
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Spikes wrote:researchfirst wrote:enyands wrote:What wealth has grown if it has not been showing on the dividends and share price? What they have been doing is growing their employee wealth that's the bottom line .
Infact my share is way less than what I bought. If you bought yours earlier when it was 16 lucky you.So when you talk about wealth then heaven speak to me as a shareholder since I see no wealth in my dry bank account.EXCEPT that the wealth of 1 billion going to employees last year and 600m this year.Hope you got your answer .So explain to me like a baby who is about to be done crying what wealth you are talking of that has be grown,of which you can say yes this is mine ,if not silent be it ...
The wealth is there it is just currently undervalued. Since you asked for a simple explanation, I will give one: market value and book value are not the same thing. Sometimes there is a pricing mismatch, as there is today. Centum’s NAV is a conservative estimate of the intrinsic value of the company and the share price is way below this level. This is the textbook definition of an undervalued company and, therefore, a fantastic buying opportunity. If everyone recognized the value of the company, and the price reflected it, it would not be. If you bought when the company was overvalued or even fairly valued, then life is hard right now. But only if you want/need to sell. If you hang on to the stock or, preferably, buy into it more, you will do very, very well. Personally, I would rather have seen a share buyback than a dividend. If the company's board and management think the company is undervalued, as I am sure they do, they should have proposed a Shs 600m share buyback. I would have held mine, realising a paper gain. You would, presumably, have sold yours, realising a real gain. And we both would have been happier. In Kenya there is no law on share buyback. It was curtailed by AG last year. AG delayed gazetting the clause on buybacks in November, but it isn't necessarily dead. Very strong case for it and a lot of companies would like to use it (e.g. SCOM, UNGA, KPLC, TOTL, HFCK).
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/24/2015 Posts: 154 Location: Nairobi
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ngapat wrote:researchfirst wrote:guru267 wrote:Management paid themselves a bonus of less than 10% of PBT... What's the big deal? This is the market average isnt it???
This same management has worked their butts off to grow shareholder wealth over the years..
Some cry baby is selling shares because of that... All I say is Sayonara!! I agree completely. All salaries, bonuses, etc. are, by definition, "at the expense" of owners. There is always a balance to be struck between who gets what. I think this balance is working, which is why I am an owner. For those of you who are not, Centum's share price has always tracked NAV closely. It is now trading at around 20% less than NAV per share. This is a no-brainer investment. You could be creating wealth for share holders while unfairly stealing from them. Are they employees or fund managers? Centum employees are paid salaries which i can assure are no peanuts and are in tandem with their contributions to the groups growth. I do agree on bonus payment for excellent results but their style of bonus pay is outright thuggery. The bonuses should be a fixed amount or a percentage of their salaries. Awarding bonuses as a percentage of a company's profit can lead to enormous bonus figures and is simply doubling as an employee and a fund manager who are paid management fee based on portfolio returns. Its unfair that bonuses to employees exceeds dividends to all shareholders. As much as the employees credit themselves for the good performance, credit should also go to shareholders for providing the capital. I see these employees becoming bigger than the company one day. To date they have been very similar to fund managers so a fund manager-like bonus system makes sense. A fixed amount bonus does not, it creates no incentive for maximum performance 'just good enough to get the bonus' performance. The hurdle rate model works globally and it looks like it is working at Centum. As the company shifts its focus to more of a conglomerate style group, the bonus system will probably need to be rethought. As for the shareholder credit for providing capital, see my post on the NAV per share relative to market price. The reward will come.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 930
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researchfirst wrote:ngapat wrote:researchfirst wrote:guru267 wrote:Management paid themselves a bonus of less than 10% of PBT... What's the big deal? This is the market average isnt it???
This same management has worked their butts off to grow shareholder wealth over the years..
Some cry baby is selling shares because of that... All I say is Sayonara!! I agree completely. All salaries, bonuses, etc. are, by definition, "at the expense" of owners. There is always a balance to be struck between who gets what. I think this balance is working, which is why I am an owner. For those of you who are not, Centum's share price has always tracked NAV closely. It is now trading at around 20% less than NAV per share. This is a no-brainer investment. You could be creating wealth for share holders while unfairly stealing from them. Are they employees or fund managers? Centum employees are paid salaries which i can assure are no peanuts and are in tandem with their contributions to the groups growth. I do agree on bonus payment for excellent results but their style of bonus pay is outright thuggery. The bonuses should be a fixed amount or a percentage of their salaries. Awarding bonuses as a percentage of a company's profit can lead to enormous bonus figures and is simply doubling as an employee and a fund manager who are paid management fee based on portfolio returns. Its unfair that bonuses to employees exceeds dividends to all shareholders. As much as the employees credit themselves for the good performance, credit should also go to shareholders for providing the capital. I see these employees becoming bigger than the company one day. To date they have been very similar to fund managers so a fund manager-like bonus system makes sense. A fixed amount bonus does not, it creates no incentive for maximum performance 'just good enough to get the bonus' performance. The hurdle rate model works globally and it looks like it is working at Centum. As the company shifts its focus to more of a conglomerate style group, the bonus system will probably need to be rethought. As for the shareholder credit for providing capital, see my post on the NAV per share relative to market price. The reward will come. The NAV was criticized here as it can easily be manipulated by revaluation of assets like land. Centum has been exiting some of their investments and booking capital gains driving the NAV up. Some of these investments were bought even before some employees joined the company and they are taking credit for them. I would prefer ROA and ROE. “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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ngapat wrote:researchfirst wrote:ngapat wrote:researchfirst wrote:guru267 wrote:Management paid themselves a bonus of less than 10% of PBT... What's the big deal? This is the market average isnt it???
This same management has worked their butts off to grow shareholder wealth over the years..
Some cry baby is selling shares because of that... All I say is Sayonara!! I agree completely. All salaries, bonuses, etc. are, by definition, "at the expense" of owners. There is always a balance to be struck between who gets what. I think this balance is working, which is why I am an owner. For those of you who are not, Centum's share price has always tracked NAV closely. It is now trading at around 20% less than NAV per share. This is a no-brainer investment. You could be creating wealth for share holders while unfairly stealing from them. Are they employees or fund managers? Centum employees are paid salaries which i can assure are no peanuts and are in tandem with their contributions to the groups growth. I do agree on bonus payment for excellent results but their style of bonus pay is outright thuggery. The bonuses should be a fixed amount or a percentage of their salaries. Awarding bonuses as a percentage of a company's profit can lead to enormous bonus figures and is simply doubling as an employee and a fund manager who are paid management fee based on portfolio returns. Its unfair that bonuses to employees exceeds dividends to all shareholders. As much as the employees credit themselves for the good performance, credit should also go to shareholders for providing the capital. I see these employees becoming bigger than the company one day. To date they have been very similar to fund managers so a fund manager-like bonus system makes sense. A fixed amount bonus does not, it creates no incentive for maximum performance 'just good enough to get the bonus' performance. The hurdle rate model works globally and it looks like it is working at Centum. As the company shifts its focus to more of a conglomerate style group, the bonus system will probably need to be rethought. As for the shareholder credit for providing capital, see my post on the NAV per share relative to market price. The reward will come. The NAV was criticized here as it can easily be manipulated by revaluation of assets like land. Centum has been exiting some of their investments and booking capital gains driving the NAV up. Some of these investments were bought even before some employees joined the company and they are taking credit for them. I would prefer ROA and ROE. Is it not the current employees who enable Centum to exit its investments at a gain? Both ROA and ROE are good for centum. Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Centum FY2016 div comeback 1/- net profit +25%
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