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Cord attempts to storm IEBC offices
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:masukuma wrote:@maka, No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same. But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states: Quote:
The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
1) Inclusivity here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency! 2) Transparency vs Secrecy Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process. so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king. What if we use the billions used for buying election materials and paying staff to buy mobile phones for every kenyan citizen aged 18yrs+? So... let me get this - the phone should be given by the state so that we can have "efficient" elections? so that we can have results today rather than tomorrow? In a poor corrupt 3rd world country that looks like this  and some people working in places like this  We should give everyone a mobile phone for voting? so that we can get results at the end of day today and not in 2days time? With priorities like these no wonder our hospitals are in the state they are in! People have to wait years to get cancer treatment but we cannot wait a day for election results??????? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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@Masukuma, To satisfy an individual's blotted ego. I hear they won't respect Judge Lenaola's orders. Hmmmm!!..... Someone tell Mutunga that!! Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2014 Posts: 1,652
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tycho wrote:hardwood wrote:hardwood wrote:Wakae ngumu. Their contracts are very clear when their term started and when it ends. Wachape kazi and ignore the barking dogs at the gate. We, patriotic jubilee youths, will be there very early in the morning to stand guard at iebc to ensure that the officers are not intimidated by hooligans. Some expressions are so funny. Like 'Jubilee youth'. One can imagine that the youth generally, don't think...  This chest thumping is hilarious.so what will happen when the Jubilee Mps joins CORD in sending the commissioners home? What will the 'Jubilee youth' say? Hutia Mundu!!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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kiash wrote:harrydre wrote:http://www.nation.co.ke/news/-/1056/3181062/-/pyc94jz/-/index.html This is a good one, hit below the mbelt.Lets wait and see if they so called politicians will join the hustlers cum activists without their security details.If they really care, they wil do but if they really care, watakaa nyumbani.This thing of hearing teargas and you are rushed to your fuel guzzler leaving the stupid poor people running to their heels should end. They should even be told not to use their official cars. An there came the excuse. http://www.the-star.co.k...ma-lucy-kibaki_c1342001
Iknew hakuna anaweza thubutu .They are not like evryone else.Things changed when they got the political offices.No more Orengo's and Raila's of the 90's
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:Swenani wrote:masukuma wrote:@maka, No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same. But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states: Quote:
The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
1) Inclusivity here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency! 2) Transparency vs Secrecy Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process. so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king. What if we use the billions used for buying election materials and paying staff to buy mobile phones for every kenyan citizen aged 18yrs+? So... let me get this - the phone should be given by the state so that we can have "efficient" elections? so that we can have results today rather than tomorrow? In a poor corrupt 3rd world country that looks like this and some people working in places like this We should give everyone a mobile phone for voting? so that we can get results at the end of day today and not in 2days time? With priorities like these no wonder our hospitals are in the state they are in! People have to wait years to get cancer treatment but we cannot wait a day for election results??????? Now that we have been spending birrions on inefficient elections have the living standards improved If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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@Bwana Fisi, You need to look at the "Birrions" spent in elections as redistribution. What you are proposing is getting a large amount of tax payers cash and dumping it in China for devices that individuals will use for a day for the business you set aside. I think I once computed a figure of about at least 175k people engaged on election day for election day operations. Secondly, even from a philosophical perspective which I noted previously - electronic voting may be simple but is not democractic... Democracy is not just something done by many people "choice" but the process itself is not as no one except the few who engage in it know what to do. I am all for spending money to improve on the administrative aspects of EMBs but not on electronic voting! So what happens to people who don't know how to use phones? e.t.c? What if I round up a bunch of people the day before - lock them up in a room.... wait for voting day and at gun a point command them to vote for a guy? e.t.c. Philosophically what you are looking at as a panacea to "slow" elections is a cause of more problems than it seeks to cure. What you are looking at having "Results as fast as possible" is being achieved by results transmission - without compromising the process. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Swenani wrote:Why can't cord mobilize all opposition parties to boycott elections if IEBC is not credible instead of inconveniencing some of Nairobians? Kumbe baba is a wazuan,he has said that CORD will boycott 2017 elections if IEBC is not reconstituted If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Could these be the steps to 2017 PEV and collision govt thereafter?
Through demos and mass action, KURDI want IEBC Commissioners to get frustrated and quit on their own volition...
If this plan succeeds and once IEBC commissioners have been hounded out of office, KURDI will raise another tirade of dust. This time round, selection formula for picking new IEBC must be revisited, otherwise KURDI will not recognize the new commissioners. Another round of demos will start at that point.
If KURDI succeeds with these demos, political parties will be allowed to have representation amongst the commissioners
The commissioners chosen by KURDI would be die hard supporters and PARTISAN. If KURDI loses the 2017 election results, even genuinely, they will come out and announce to the whole world ‘how the results were rigged’ Molo ECK official style. And they will raise another tirade of dust. Even calling for civil disobedience. Western powers start weighing in and say coalition govt must be formed. Uhuru exits from the resultant 'collision govt' in 2022, KURDI Supremo who will have smarted from 2007-2013 mistakes goes on to rule for two terms, 2022-2032 mugabe style
So what to do?
IMHO IEBC should stay put. Giving in will open pandora’s box, and we will lose advantage to outsmart KURDI in subsequent outbursts.
The threat to boycott elections is an empty one (and very welcome indeed), in fact this will be welcome news even in cord strongholds since others will move in to fill the vacuum.
If KURDI were genuine, they would push for formation of tribunal against specific IEBC commissioners. As things stand, KURDI wants to arm twist everyone to have IEBC reconstituted. This in a very cunning manner whilst hiding cards under the table and without disclosing their entire motives. Giving in to any of these 'unconstitutional' excesses will be like the cow that accepts to be tied yet it's being taken to the slaughter house.
We can do / live with dwindling demos every other Monday going forward, but not another PEV and collision govt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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 ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Indeed long time no see friend! where have uh been and what have you been up to?
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