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Cord attempts to storm IEBC offices
Obi 1 Kanobi
#141 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 1:40:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
CORD's issue with IEBC has to do with their conduct of OKOA Kenya and not even the chicken gate scandal. Meaning they want the entire team of commissioners gone.

If I were CORD, I would really look at the staff, if anything, malpractices are likely to be done by employees who man actual systems than some Sambusa munching, allowance collecting commissioner.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Njung'e
#142 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 2:15:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
where was Kalonzo? Asking for friend.lol
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Ngalaka
#143 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 2:17:59 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Njung'e wrote:
where was Kalonzo? Asking for friend.lol


A friend told me he was thereLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
But I know he wont be keeping this company for long
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Swenani
#144 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 2:41:29 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
masukuma wrote:
@maka,
No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same.
But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states:
Quote:

The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.


1) Inclusivity
here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency!

2) Transparency vs Secrecy
Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process.

so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king.


It will work, we understand you are trying to secure your livelihood!smile smile smile smile smile


If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
ecstacy
#145 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 3:40:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Elections are rigged in the US during electronic voting. Electronic transmission Yes, electronic voting NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Please listen to this computer programmer testify on record how this happened in US - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs
masukuma
#146 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 4:15:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
masukuma wrote:
@maka,
No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same.
But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states:
Quote:

The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.


1) Inclusivity
here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency!

2) Transparency vs Secrecy
Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process.

so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king.


It will work, we understand you are trying to secure your livelihood!smile smile smile smile smile



it will "WORK" - that's not the problem! Even Egypt had been having elections. The bigger problem is not to about getting a result quickly! no! That's the IDOLATRY OF EFFICIENCY I WAS TALKING ABOUT. That is where the microwave generation gets lost! Elections are about intent and DEMONSTRATABLY (not even sure such a word exists) DECLARING X is the winner. Not by some software that a group of experts tell you. Ask yourself - why did Germany rollback from Electronic voting? Why did the Irish do it? It's the philosophy of Democracy that knocks off these technological intrusions. Remember, Elections unlike management of personal finances and paying your suppliers or employees.... IS WAR!!!!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
hardwood
#147 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 5:15:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Impunity wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
Out of curiosity, what happened to McReggae - since RAO was hammered 2013?


He has been a man of trouble;
>RAO beaten in 2013 and the remaining one bullet will not fire in 2017
>Man U faltered big time and the thought that @Mukorinho could man Manu U depresses him much. (me too)
>He realized that posting in wazua religioulsy is VANITY.
>It is finally sinking into his head that PHOMBE substracts value in his already troubled health.
>He recently realized that MOLES in CORD earn more handouts than perpetual @baba sycophants.


He's in alot of trouble for messing up okoa kenya.

ecstacy
#148 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:36:40 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
hardwood wrote:
Impunity wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
Out of curiosity, what happened to McReggae - since RAO was hammered 2013?


He has been a man of trouble;
>RAO beaten in 2013 and the remaining one bullet will not fire in 2017
>Man U faltered big time and the thought that @Mukorinho could man Manu U depresses him much. (me too)
>He realized that posting in wazua religioulsy is VANITY.
>It is finally sinking into his head that PHOMBE substracts value in his already troubled health.
>He recently realized that MOLES in CORD earn more handouts than perpetual @baba sycophants.


He's in alot of trouble for messing up okoa kenya.



I had the circumstance to meet some ODM insider this past week at a non-partisan table. His take was that CORD is a house of cards. Fortunately or unfortunately, I agree with him.
harrydre
#149 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:10:08 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
A mammoth in gusii land for the dynamic duo. Busy hunting for votes as some old man is busy banging gates instead of delegating such tasks to his mps and kina MCReggae. Come election time...ooh stolen...oohh fake IeBC.....ooh democracy on trial.

70% kwa debe!
i.am.back!!!!
masukuma
#150 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 6:59:33 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
I just listened to a debate and it's clear that CORD wants something that is not even in law. They want IEBC reconstituted and political parties to have their mandarins at the helm. so a formula where a party picks a places whomever it wants and civil society/religious leaders pick the chair! Waaa!!! Beside it being a contravention of existing law... ile drama tutakuwa nayo!!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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