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Cord attempts to storm IEBC offices
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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washiku wrote:hardwood wrote:You insisted kivuitu be the referee then when you lost you blamed him. Then you chose Hassan as new the new referee under nusu mkate and then when you lost you blame him and your handpicked friend mutunga. And now that another match is coming up you want a new referee. Then when you lose as usual you will demand another referee. Yaani the referee is always the one to blame for your lose. Reminds me of gor stoning the ref whenever they lose a contest. There must be something in the Lake victoria water. Historical facts/data are usually very critical in making decisions. If what you have written up there is actually true, then Jubilee should just support the having of new IEBC commissioners and then they win, after all history teaches us that even with his handpicked bosses at the top, RAO did not win. I heard Ruto say that 'with or without IEBC'(sic), 'Jubilee will win with a landslide'. Why then is it hard to just have a negotiated route where these guys are shown the door and a new team put in place, at least early enough for the new team to come up with a plan? What am I missing? Their office is protected by the constitution. There is a legal framework on how to send them home. Follow that. i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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harrydre wrote:washiku wrote:hardwood wrote:You insisted kivuitu be the referee then when you lost you blamed him. Then you chose Hassan as new the new referee under nusu mkate and then when you lost you blame him and your handpicked friend mutunga. And now that another match is coming up you want a new referee. Then when you lose as usual you will demand another referee. Yaani the referee is always the one to blame for your lose. Reminds me of gor stoning the ref whenever they lose a contest. There must be something in the Lake victoria water. Historical facts/data are usually very critical in making decisions. If what you have written up there is actually true, then Jubilee should just support the having of new IEBC commissioners and then they win, after all history teaches us that even with his handpicked bosses at the top, RAO did not win. I heard Ruto say that 'with or without IEBC'(sic), 'Jubilee will win with a landslide'. Why then is it hard to just have a negotiated route where these guys are shown the door and a new team put in place, at least early enough for the new team to come up with a plan? What am I missing? Their office is protected by the constitution. There is a legal framework on how to send them home. Follow that. @harrydre, remember kimaiyo and how that security of tenure thing went ? Remember eacc's mumo matemu and that other mama who had refused to vacate office citing security of tenure ? A political solution was found and they all went home. What @washiku and most of us are praying for, why can't jubilee take charge, send these guys home and we go to an election with a less poisoned environment ?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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FRM2011 wrote:harrydre wrote:washiku wrote:hardwood wrote:You insisted kivuitu be the referee then when you lost you blamed him. Then you chose Hassan as new the new referee under nusu mkate and then when you lost you blame him and your handpicked friend mutunga. And now that another match is coming up you want a new referee. Then when you lose as usual you will demand another referee. Yaani the referee is always the one to blame for your lose. Reminds me of gor stoning the ref whenever they lose a contest. There must be something in the Lake victoria water. Historical facts/data are usually very critical in making decisions. If what you have written up there is actually true, then Jubilee should just support the having of new IEBC commissioners and then they win, after all history teaches us that even with his handpicked bosses at the top, RAO did not win. I heard Ruto say that 'with or without IEBC'(sic), 'Jubilee will win with a landslide'. Why then is it hard to just have a negotiated route where these guys are shown the door and a new team put in place, at least early enough for the new team to come up with a plan? What am I missing? Their office is protected by the constitution. There is a legal framework on how to send them home. Follow that. @harrydre, remember kimaiyo and how that security of tenure thing went ? Remember eacc's mumo matemu and that other mama who had refused to vacate office citing security of tenure ? A political solution was found and they all went home. What @washiku and most of us are praying for, why can't jubilee take charge, send these guys home and we go to an election with a less poisoned environment ? That is exactly my point. We have a country bigger than Hassan. If a significant player claims the referee is biased, whether its a perception or not, you need to be afraid. If you are confident of your win and you have nothing to hide, get a political solution that wont offend the constitution, let new guys come in, win and then shout to the whole world: I TOLD YOU I WAS POPULAR THAN HIM. YOU SEE I WON EVEN WITH HIS PEOPLE AS REFEREES. In my thinking this should be easier since I have heard several times Jubilee guys like Sakanja say they also want them out. Why not get them out soon to give the new team time to prepare?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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@Masukuma can this work? This IEBC thing, we can do without it and have a automated secure tamperproof system for elections manned by small staff. In Kenya 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% of that know how to use MPESA. If we Kenyans trust MPESA with billions of our Shillings, WHY CAN'T WE BE HONEST TO OUR COUNTRY AND DEVELOP A PLATFORM LIKE THAT OF MPESA TO HANDLE OUR VOTES????? Example: on your phone you go to app...menu *Safaricom *Mpesa *Vote or USSD *0# Select "VOTE"√ Enter ID Card Number i.e.123456789√ Enter PIN****√ Election menu 1.President 2.MP 3.Governor 4.MCA 5.WRep. Reply number No's.1-5 If you select 1.> 1. Presidential candidate name 2. Presidential candidate name 3...lists all candidates Once you confirm the number and name of your favourite candidate gets his/her vote . Vote is tallied automatically, immediately and transparently rolled to a counter which is broadcast by all media houses live realtime. Same is done to all elective posts. Your registered number, your ID No., your pin and your phone IMEI serial no. can not vote twice on any elective post. The value of this if honestly transparently done like MPESA platform as country we stand to benefit a lot like..... 1. With less than Kshs.100m you will conduct National general elections. 2. No staff ( no expense for wages and salaries) 3. No BVR kits( save all billions used is purchase and maintenance of these plastics) 4.No booths at polling centers 5.No vehicles and helicopters for hiring ( billions saved) 6. No massive expensive paper printing and shipping( all that money is saved). 7.No massive purchase and transporting of plastic ballot boxes.( all that money is saved). 7. No waking up at 4am for day long ques 8. No travelling to your village to vote, you vote from you wherever you are and no stress on voters, they will vote from the comfort of their homes/ bedrooms. 10. Shortest election time, by noon of the election day the election result is out. Before evening elected leaders are confirmed. 11. ...list of benefits and advantages is endless.... Drop your opinion here. . possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,822 Location: Nakuru
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maka wrote:@Masukuma can this work?
This IEBC thing, we can do without it and have a automated secure tamperproof system for elections manned by small staff. In Kenya 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% of that know how to use MPESA. If we Kenyans trust MPESA with billions of our Shillings, WHY CAN'T WE BE HONEST TO OUR COUNTRY AND DEVELOP A PLATFORM LIKE THAT OF MPESA TO HANDLE OUR VOTES????? Example: on your phone you go to app...menu *Safaricom *Mpesa *Vote or USSD *0#
Select "VOTE"√ Enter ID Card Number i.e.123456789√ Enter PIN****√ Election menu 1.President 2.MP 3.Governor 4.MCA 5.WRep. Reply number No's.1-5 If you select 1.> 1. Presidential candidate name 2. Presidential candidate name 3...lists all candidates
Once you confirm the number and name of your favourite candidate gets his/her vote . Vote is tallied automatically, immediately and transparently rolled to a counter which is broadcast by all media houses live realtime.
Same is done to all elective posts. Your registered number, your ID No., your pin and your phone IMEI serial no. can not vote twice on any elective post.
The value of this if honestly transparently done like MPESA platform as country we stand to benefit a lot like..... 1. With less than Kshs.100m you will conduct National general elections. 2. No staff ( no expense for wages and salaries) 3. No BVR kits( save all billions used is purchase and maintenance of these plastics) 4.No booths at polling centers 5.No vehicles and helicopters for hiring ( billions saved) 6. No massive expensive paper printing and shipping( all that money is saved). 7.No massive purchase and transporting of plastic ballot boxes.( all that money is saved). 7. No waking up at 4am for day long ques 8. No travelling to your village to vote, you vote from you wherever you are and no stress on voters, they will vote from the comfort of their homes/ bedrooms. 10. Shortest election time, by noon of the election day the election result is out. Before evening elected leaders are confirmed. 11. ...list of benefits and advantages is endless.... Drop your opinion here. . A very brilliant suggestion you have here. It is very very possible. Hata double voting will be impossible in such a system....if only policy ,makers were wazuans?? Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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maka wrote:@Masukuma can this work?
This IEBC thing, we can do without it and have a automated secure tamperproof system for elections manned by small staff. In Kenya 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% of that know how to use MPESA. If we Kenyans trust MPESA with billions of our Shillings, WHY CAN'T WE BE HONEST TO OUR COUNTRY AND DEVELOP A PLATFORM LIKE THAT OF MPESA TO HANDLE OUR VOTES????? Example: on your phone you go to app...menu *Safaricom *Mpesa *Vote or USSD *0#
Select "VOTE"√ Enter ID Card Number i.e.123456789√ Enter PIN****√ Election menu 1.President 2.MP 3.Governor 4.MCA 5.WRep. Reply number No's.1-5 If you select 1.> 1. Presidential candidate name 2. Presidential candidate name 3...lists all candidates
Once you confirm the number and name of your favourite candidate gets his/her vote . Vote is tallied automatically, immediately and transparently rolled to a counter which is broadcast by all media houses live realtime.
Same is done to all elective posts. Your registered number, your ID No., your pin and your phone IMEI serial no. can not vote twice on any elective post.
The value of this if honestly transparently done like MPESA platform as country we stand to benefit a lot like..... 1. With less than Kshs.100m you will conduct National general elections. 2. No staff ( no expense for wages and salaries) 3. No BVR kits( save all billions used is purchase and maintenance of these plastics) 4.No booths at polling centers 5.No vehicles and helicopters for hiring ( billions saved) 6. No massive expensive paper printing and shipping( all that money is saved). 7.No massive purchase and transporting of plastic ballot boxes.( all that money is saved). 7. No waking up at 4am for day long ques 8. No travelling to your village to vote, you vote from you wherever you are and no stress on voters, they will vote from the comfort of their homes/ bedrooms. 10. Shortest election time, by noon of the election day the election result is out. Before evening elected leaders are confirmed. 11. ...list of benefits and advantages is endless.... Drop your opinion here. .  Very nice thinking but not in Kenya. First you need to change the law but still, CORD will say there were 1million Jubilee techies with fake mobile phones all voting jubilee. Or that for every cord vote jubilee are sending two votes to their candidates through a manipulated system.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,194 Location: nairobi
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washiku wrote:maka wrote:@Masukuma can this work?
This IEBC thing, we can do without it and have a automated secure tamperproof system for elections manned by small staff. In Kenya 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% of that know how to use MPESA. If we Kenyans trust MPESA with billions of our Shillings, WHY CAN'T WE BE HONEST TO OUR COUNTRY AND DEVELOP A PLATFORM LIKE THAT OF MPESA TO HANDLE OUR VOTES????? Example: on your phone you go to app...menu *Safaricom *Mpesa *Vote or USSD *0#
Select "VOTE"√ Enter ID Card Number i.e.123456789√ Enter PIN****√ Election menu 1.President 2.MP 3.Governor 4.MCA 5.WRep. Reply number No's.1-5 If you select 1.> 1. Presidential candidate name 2. Presidential candidate name 3...lists all candidates
Once you confirm the number and name of your favourite candidate gets his/her vote . Vote is tallied automatically, immediately and transparently rolled to a counter which is broadcast by all media houses live realtime.
Same is done to all elective posts. Your registered number, your ID No., your pin and your phone IMEI serial no. can not vote twice on any elective post.
The value of this if honestly transparently done like MPESA platform as country we stand to benefit a lot like..... 1. With less than Kshs.100m you will conduct National general elections. 2. No staff ( no expense for wages and salaries) 3. No BVR kits( save all billions used is purchase and maintenance of these plastics) 4.No booths at polling centers 5.No vehicles and helicopters for hiring ( billions saved) 6. No massive expensive paper printing and shipping( all that money is saved). 7.No massive purchase and transporting of plastic ballot boxes.( all that money is saved). 7. No waking up at 4am for day long ques 8. No travelling to your village to vote, you vote from you wherever you are and no stress on voters, they will vote from the comfort of their homes/ bedrooms. 10. Shortest election time, by noon of the election day the election result is out. Before evening elected leaders are confirmed. 11. ...list of benefits and advantages is endless.... Drop your opinion here. .  Very nice thinking but not in Kenya. First you need to change the law but still, CORD will say there were 1million Jubilee techies with fake mobile phones all voting jubilee. Or that for every cord vote jubilee are sending two votes to their candidates through a manipulated system. No good will,however good it looks,crooks thrive on opaque systems no matter how big investments you make as a country the absence of credible election systems and a democracy where the looser can clearly trace how he lost,we will be sitting on a civil war and trauma every 5yrs,one thing i know for sure Kenyans are very peaceful pple when the truth is followed in black and white "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Swenani wrote:hardwood wrote:ecstacy wrote:Swenani wrote:kiash wrote:Swenani wrote:Based on my objective opinion or so I think, CORD shouldnt have stormed the IEBC offices and the policemen were wrong to tear gas RAO. They should have arrested him and charge him in court considering that demonstration/marching was illegal since the police were not notified.
Teargassing baba is taking us way back many days back to pre 1963  there is a video showing the guys shaking the gate, you wanted the police to sit there and watch ? After all i agree Rao is a former prime minister but what was his capacity in that "meeting"? Am you wanted them to use selective tear gas. Until people learn to do peaceful demos, i support the tear gassing.They could as well have sat there and wave placards mpaka jioni but they chose another route "Choices have consequences" When a policeman finds a matatu overlapping, do you teargas the driver or you arrest him? If there were people who were destroying property, they should have been arrested and taken to court, if you tear gas them, they will be back.If somebody held an illegal public gathering, arrest the organizer and charge them in court I see where you are coming from but no need creating heroes from common thugs. When a protesting mob turns unruly and starts to "kungoa" the gate and throwing stones at the cops, it's time to fire the tear gas to disperse the mob and dissipate the "mob energy". Otherwise wangengoa gate, storm the offices, rough up the officers, ransack and destroy the offices. Then everyone would be asking "where were the police to arrest them?" Riotous mobs even in the best of democracies are dealt with that way - teargas, water canons etc. The first priority is to disperse and scatter them, then as they flee if you can safely arrest some do so. Now for practicable reasons in Kenya today, arresting Raila on account of the happenings of the day, may not be the smartest thing to do. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/8/2015 Posts: 166
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washiku wrote:maka wrote:@Masukuma can this work?
This IEBC thing, we can do without it and have a automated secure tamperproof system for elections manned by small staff. In Kenya 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% of that know how to use MPESA. If we Kenyans trust MPESA with billions of our Shillings, WHY CAN'T WE BE HONEST TO OUR COUNTRY AND DEVELOP A PLATFORM LIKE THAT OF MPESA TO HANDLE OUR VOTES????? Example: on your phone you go to app...menu *Safaricom *Mpesa *Vote or USSD *0#
Select "VOTE"√ Enter ID Card Number i.e.123456789√ Enter PIN****√ Election menu 1.President 2.MP 3.Governor 4.MCA 5.WRep. Reply number No's.1-5 If you select 1.> 1. Presidential candidate name 2. Presidential candidate name 3...lists all candidates
Once you confirm the number and name of your favourite candidate gets his/her vote . Vote is tallied automatically, immediately and transparently rolled to a counter which is broadcast by all media houses live realtime.
Same is done to all elective posts. Your registered number, your ID No., your pin and your phone IMEI serial no. can not vote twice on any elective post.
The value of this if honestly transparently done like MPESA platform as country we stand to benefit a lot like..... 1. With less than Kshs.100m you will conduct National general elections. 2. No staff ( no expense for wages and salaries) 3. No BVR kits( save all billions used is purchase and maintenance of these plastics) 4.No booths at polling centers 5.No vehicles and helicopters for hiring ( billions saved) 6. No massive expensive paper printing and shipping( all that money is saved). 7.No massive purchase and transporting of plastic ballot boxes.( all that money is saved). 7. No waking up at 4am for day long ques 8. No travelling to your village to vote, you vote from you wherever you are and no stress on voters, they will vote from the comfort of their homes/ bedrooms. 10. Shortest election time, by noon of the election day the election result is out. Before evening elected leaders are confirmed. 11. ...list of benefits and advantages is endless.... Drop your opinion here. .  Very nice thinking but not in Kenya. First you need to change the law but still, CORD will say there were 1million Jubilee techies with fake mobile phones all voting jubilee. Or that for every cord vote jubilee are sending two votes to their candidates through a manipulated system. Good suggestion. The above suggestion can be improved; why hold an election when we know Kamwana is the most popular candidate and the probability of babu winning is almost zero, tends to zero or is zero. Why not save the funds and confirm the guy. We like wasting resources!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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@maka, No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same. But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states: Quote: The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
1) Inclusivity here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency! 2) Transparency vs Secrecy Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process. so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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