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Oil Pipeline Politics
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,588
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hardwood wrote:M7 fears pipeline itang'olewa kama reli by the usual suspects when baba gets defeated again. We may say the same negative things of Ugandas/TZ dictatorship leading to chaos, poverty, slow growth e.t.c. This pipeline is a project in which even ODM lumineries like Anyang Nyongo were instrumental in developing, this is "A Kenyan" project and not a Jubilee project, Uhuru is just following the ideas of Kenyan thinkers and raising the resources to implement and ensure they are realised. These were mooted long before Ug/Tz could even think of a pipeline, it naturally follows that Lamu is simply the best way out for all Kenyans, and also Ug/Tz, they are trying to play useless power games with Kenya and Raila has run into the mix to act as a mule! Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Much Know wrote:Swenani wrote:[quote=Much Know][quote=Swenani]Kenya to build it's oil. UK to deliver that message to Pombe and Kaguta I sometimes wonder how some people can be sooo bitter about their own country just because they "think" they know the tribe of the President, surely in a business forum kama sio wivu, what can make someone support the tz/ug theory, ok maybe they don't know finance and economics. Kenya's economy uses maybe 4 times as much fuel as the other two combined!! We are building LAPSET and damn yes it is going to be built and it is in progress!!! Infact despite the TZ having the port and support of that french company, it's main aim is to supply oil TO KENYA not to tz and ug, and that pipeline will never be built now that we have gown our own way! Garment is NOT JOKING here! Plus it's cheaper and the math has been shown! Joining UG/TZ in their fake arguments on wazua just exposes the tribe you belong to/hiding behind, either that or haujasoma vizuri, haufikirii! Most likely wivu ya bure tu! deleted If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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These days I am thinking so much in the lines of "Mwamba Ngoma huvuta pande yake". Quick question? Why do we assume that Uganda is here for our interests? Or TZ is here to shortcut us? That TZ is always looking for opportunities to screw us? Uganda primarily is in this thing for it's interests! Why did Total decide the way it did? It's interests! Thinking it's something else is missing the point. Arguing on Wazua like Kenya is the senior country in EAC is missing the point! All countries in EAC are in it for themselves primarily and if it works out that there is a nexus then cooperation is made easier. Poleni but it's all business not personal! Mwamba ngoma anavuta pande yake! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,588
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masukuma wrote:These days I am thinking so much in the lines of "Mwamba Ngoma huvuta pande yake". Quick question? Why do we assume that Uganda is here for our interests? Or TZ is here to shortcut us? That TZ is always looking for opportunities to screw us? Uganda primarily is in this thing for it's interests! Why did Total decide the way it did? It's interests! Thinking it's something else is missing the point. Arguing on Wazua like Kenya is the senior country in EAC is missing the point! All countries in EAC are in it for themselves primarily and if it works out that there is a nexus then cooperation is made easier. Poleni but it's all business not personal! Mwamba ngoma anavuta pande yake! People can be unaware of what is in their best interest, infact many think tribal thinking is in their interest whereas it is not. Greedy corrupt people and thieves think they are working in their interest and they are usually not. The question is why should some Kenyans look after the interest of UG/TZ and not their own? Ask why, why why? Wivu ama ujinga, ETHICS, ethics supersedes what one may think or what one may argue is their interest, without ethical politics. There is no other answer, wivu au ujinga, there is no 'good reason'. Why should a Kenyan sneak to make deals that undermine our (his own peoples) interest, that's the problem here, UG/TZ can build their own but it is not cost effective and without Kenya, it is a 'pipe dream' in the true sense of the word. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Things getting hot in here! What is!! If the last word on where the pipeline is to be built rested with Wazuans, the verdict would be emphatic - Kenya. But this is a matter majorly for Uganda to decide. These allegations of certain Kanyans undercutting on Kenya are strange. I must admit though that if I got credible info that any Kenyan, including Raila has been doing so in regard to the Pipeline matter I would be very disappointed. Thus far I have none. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:These days I am thinking so much in the lines of "Mwamba Ngoma huvuta pande yake". Quick question? Why do we assume that Uganda is here for our interests? Or TZ is here to shortcut us? That TZ is always looking for opportunities to screw us? Uganda primarily is in this thing for it's interests! Why did Total decide the way it did? It's interests! Thinking it's something else is missing the point. Arguing on Wazua like Kenya is the senior country in EAC is missing the point! All countries in EAC are in it for themselves primarily and if it works out that there is a nexus then cooperation is made easier. Poleni but it's all business not personal! Mwamba ngoma anavuta pande yake! People can be unaware of what is in their best interest, infact many think tribal thinking is in their interest whereas it is not. Greedy corrupt people and thieves think they are working in their interest and they are usually not. The question is why should some Kenyans look after the interest of UG/TZ and not their own? Ask why, why why? Wivu ama ujinga, ETHICS, ethics supersedes what one may think or what one may argue is their interest, without ethical politics. There is no other answer, wivu au ujinga, there is no 'good reason'. Why should a Kenyan sneak to make deals that undermine our (his own peoples) interest, that's the problem here, UG/TZ can build their own but it is not cost effective and without Kenya, it is a 'pipe dream' in the true sense of the word. When negotiating you need to think like the person you are engaging! Think... "what is their interest in this matter?" - "How can I align my interests with theirs so that I can rope them in?". Sometimes when verbalising this analysis and playing devil's advocate, untrained observers may think that the person articulating what they perceive as interest of the other party as being pro-the other camp and thus a sellout. I don't think there is a kenyan who wants LAPPSET to fail but there are objective people who can see WHY IT WOULD FAIL. They are not wishing for it's failure they are just objective enough to see why a partner would not join us in that journey. We should address their "Why"s not attack them for not being on our side. Nani alisema Raila alienda TZ kuTuuza? The Pipeline decision was made by the group paying for it's being built... Total! We are wasting emotions and intellect thinking that somehow Bwana Pombe and Bwana Museveni want to screw us. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,588
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My initial problem is with the ukabila thinking which even pervades Kenya's 'best interest' by MEASUREMENT even in their plans as shown here with the pipeline and this argument stands, whether it is eurobond, or scaring away public servants with arguments that melt down to mundane "tribal thinking". People who can't think in logistics never think in terms of measurements, just upuzi time wasting random arguments. All MEASUREMENTS financial, logistics support Kenya's position, wasting time arguing about peculiar immeasurables such as other unnamed/mysterious "interests" from peoples who more often than not do not know what is in their best interest or do not have capacity to develop measurable elements of this 'interest'. Plans have been drawn, costings done, e.t.c. Turkwell gorge project was built in the interest of the french and politically heeled in Kenya, it may and is probably the case in UG/TZ, Is the french company soo clean? Without measurements which Kenya has provided in favor of it arguments, millions of "interests" can take millions of dimensions to a simple question even on the same, why would Kenyans argue against something that is in their best own interest, same conclusion, ujinga or useless bitterness about tribe that earns nothing, i feel i have to point this out! Let's not argue about some "hidden" interest, declare them! Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:My initial problem is with the ukabila thinking which even pervades Kenya's 'best interest' by MEASUREMENT even in their plans as shown here with the pipeline and this argument stands, whether it is eurobond, or scaring away public servants with arguments that melt down to mundane "tribal thinking". People who can't think in logistics never think in terms of measurements, just upuzi time wasting random arguments. All MEASUREMENTS financial, logistics support Kenya's position, wasting time arguing about peculiar immeasurables such as other unnamed/mysterious "interests" from peoples who more often than not do not know what is in their best interest or do not have capacity to develop measurable elements of this 'interest'. Plans have been drawn, costings done, e.t.c. Turkwell gorge project was built in the interest of the french and politically heeled in Kenya, it may and is probably the case in UG/TZ, Is the french company soo clean? Without measurements which Kenya has provided in favor of it arguments, millions of "interests" can take millions of dimensions to a simple question even on the same, why would Kenyans argue against something that is in their best own interest, same conclusion, ujinga or useless bitterness about tribe that earns nothing, i feel i have to point this out! Let's not argue about some "hidden" interest, declare them! Dude, haven't you realized you are the one, the ONLY one going on and on about TRIBE, TRIBALISM, TRIBAL? Aren't you then the PRINCIPAL purveyor?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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@Muchknow There is a thread in the blue section talking about this same oil pipeline. I am one of the people who posted there that it makes sense for Ug to go with Tz and gave reasons for why I think they may have chosen Tz. I think Masukuma has tried to educate you so I don't think I need to say more about your logic. What you should have written is; The fact that Uganda is going with TZ does not mean Kenya should lie down and die, we can still build our own pipeline to evacuate our oil. It will be much more expensive, it could even be unviable but as a country, we have to do what we have to do. Your tribal angle however is vintage you, I have learnt to expect no less regardless of topic. P.S. I bet I am 100 times more kenyan than you are and I am saying that despite the fact that I don't know you from Adam. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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