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KRA wants access to bank accounts without court order
kimugaman
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 10:44:09 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/15/2015
Posts: 26
According to the article, KRA wants free access to all bank accounts without necessarily getting a court order.
The propose this in the finance bill.

I take it to mean, they can just go peeking at every account, and compare it with your tax return (or lack thereof).

Is this even constitutional? Right to privacy?
How about harassment. Imagine some KRA agent just looking at your bank a/c. All that power.

Will it lead to capital flight? Will wanjiku who banks at equity and sells milk put money under her mattress to avoid explaining her account?
Will nakumatt run out of mattresses?
Will politicians even vote for this? Imagine all the kickbacks they get. They will have to keep money at their homes and lobby for more bodyguards to protect their homes where they stash their loot.

Is it rectoactive? How will akina Moi and others explain their bank statements?

KRA seeks free access to taxpayer's bank accounts
mwania
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 12:14:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/29/2007
Posts: 76
If it goes through, many will fear depositing their money into the banks for all cash transactions. I expect some resistance from banks and even politicians too (that is, if politicians really think before passing laws, which I doubt). Now, I believe that the central bank circular of Kshs. 1m cap on cash transactions has really slowed down bank transactions.. and then KRA should be aware that people are not encouraged to pay taxes with the kind of mega corruption sagas we have seen in the last year...
whiteowl
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 12:27:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2014
Posts: 1,420
Location: Bohemian Grove
This clause in that bill will never see the light of day.MPs,Wanjiku,banks,governors, senators and all other shady officials in public and private sector will be on same side opposing the bill.
Ash Ock
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 12:36:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
Every single time the KRA has a shortfall, they always come up with new solutions on how to plug the gaps, whether it be requiring a tax clearance to leave the country, mapping landlords, etc.

Not a single one has come to pass.

The KRA knows better than to go against the elite.

This is just PR BS.
Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
kiash
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 1:59:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 951
Location: Nyumbani
Where i live, these local KRA guys have access to my account if they want thay just have to contact the bank. Its not only the KRA guys.Once one signs a job contract, to make sure you are paid,company verification, they have to get your bank account details.Actually there is what they call house allowance, aid to children (to sum it all , any money given to you from the state) is accessible online and from your account.
This happens incase you say you are unable to pay some creditors and even a "auctioneer" just goes to a judge and is given access to your bank account, the money you owe will be paid monthly ,you just agree on the amont and the period.
So unless you work in black market and paid in cash, utapatikana. This is usually used incase of divorce where one has to pay child support wanakata at the source.
So unless Mpigs think they will be affected, its not a big deal to apply. They will not look at 5 million bank accounts.Its only suspects and these suspects are thru denouncing from neighbours, unhappy spouses etc
Swenani
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:09:05 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
kimugaman wrote:
According to the article, KRA wants free access to all bank accounts without necessarily getting a court order.
The propose this in the finance bill.

I take it to mean, they can just go peeking at every account, and compare it with your tax return (or lack thereof).

Is this even constitutional? Right to privacy?
How about harassment. Imagine some KRA agent just looking at your bank a/c. All that power.

Will it lead to capital flight? Will wanjiku who banks at equity and sells milk put money under her mattress to avoid explaining her account?
Will nakumatt run out of mattresses?
Will politicians even vote for this? Imagine all the kickbacks they get. They will have to keep money at their homes and lobby for more bodyguards to protect their homes where they stash their loot.

Is it rectoactive? How will akina Moi and others explain their bank statements?

KRA seeks free access to taxpayer's bank accounts



This is the best thing that ever happened after I realized that my dick has other uses apart from urinating.

There are some characters in this republic of Kenya and republic of wazua who do not pay taxes and are the biggest noise makers of how the government is under performing,underfunctioning and going under.

Let KRA have the power to freeze your account if there is no relation between the taxes paid and your bank account health.

But considering governments is made up of corrupt cartels, this will never see the light of the day-if it does, that law will be applied selectively
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
subaru
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:14:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/15/2010
Posts: 391
Location: nairobie
Swenani wrote:
kimugaman wrote:
According to the article, KRA wants free access to all bank accounts without necessarily getting a court order.
The propose this in the finance bill.

I take it to mean, they can just go peeking at every account, and compare it with your tax return (or lack thereof).

Is this even constitutional? Right to privacy?
How about harassment. Imagine some KRA agent just looking at your bank a/c. All that power.

Will it lead to capital flight? Will wanjiku who banks at equity and sells milk put money under her mattress to avoid explaining her account?
Will nakumatt run out of mattresses?
Will politicians even vote for this? Imagine all the kickbacks they get. They will have to keep money at their homes and lobby for more bodyguards to protect their homes where they stash their loot.

Is it rectoactive? How will akina Moi and others explain their bank statements?

KRA seeks free access to taxpayer's bank accounts



This is the best thing that ever happened after I realized that my dick has other uses apart from urinating.

There are some characters in this republic of Kenya and republic of wazua who do not pay taxes and are the biggest noise makers of how the government is under performing,underfunctioning and going under.

Let KRA have the power to freeze your account if there is no relation between the taxes paid and your bank account health.

But considering governments is made up of corrupt cartels, this will never see the light of the day-if it does, that law will be applied selectively

http://www.sde.co.ke/art...lose-confidence-in-banks
Swenani
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:16:57 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
subaru wrote:
Swenani wrote:
[quote=kimugaman]According to the article, KRA wants free access to all bank accounts without necessarily getting a court order.
The propose this in the finance bill.

I take it to mean, they can just go peeking at every account, and compare it with your tax return (or lack thereof).

Is this even constitutional? Right to privacy?
How about harassment. Imagine some KRA agent just looking at your bank a/c. All that power.

Will it lead to capital flight? Will wanjiku who banks at equity and sells milk put money under her mattress to avoid explaining her account?
Will nakumatt run out of mattresses?
Will politicians even vote for this? Imagine all the kickbacks they get. They will have to keep money at their homes and lobby for more bodyguards to protect their homes where they stash their loot.

Is it rectoactive? How will akina Moi and others explain their bank statements?

KRA seeks free access to taxpayer's bank accounts



This is the best thing that ever happened after I realized that my dick has other uses apart from urinating.

There are some characters in this republic of Kenya and republic of wazua who do not pay taxes and are the biggest noise makers of how the government is under performing,underfunctioning and going under.

Let KRA have the power to freeze your account if there is no relation between the taxes paid and your bank account health.

But considering governments is made up of corrupt cartels, this will never see the light of the day-if it does, that law will be applied selectively

http://www.sde.co.ke/art...ose-confidence-in-banks[/quote]

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Quote:
This was unexpected and normally the universal practice is to put mattress stores in receivership when they face such haemorrhage of their stock.
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
mwania
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:27:19 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/29/2007
Posts: 76
It is common knowledge that KRA officers are very different from the US IRS. Their objective in such access will mostly be to siphon money from you. In fact if, for example they find out that you owe KRA Ksh. 5m, they will ask you to pay KRA 500,000 and you give them 2m to clear you and in order to accomplish that, they will overrate the taxes owed, then blackmail you. And many people are not aware that you can apply for amnesty for penalties owed which will be the first thing the investigators use to blackmail people.. So, I personally would not support such an idea. Let them apply when necessary in their work, not a blanket access to any account.
kiash
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:34:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 951
Location: Nyumbani
mwania wrote:
It is common knowledge that KRA officers are very different from the US IRS. Their objective in such access will mostly be to siphon money from you. In fact if, for example they find out that you owe KRA Ksh. 5m, they will ask you to pay KRA 500,000 and you give them 2m to clear you and in order to accomplish that, they will overrate the taxes owed, then blackmail you. And many people are not aware that you can apply for amnesty for penalties owed which will be the first thing the investigators use to blackmail people.. So, I personally would not support such an idea. Let them apply when necessary in their work, not a blanket access to any account.



That is why i said they cannot check the millions of accounts around. Infact it would work like if you denounce someone and they discover there has been hidden monies, you get a % of the amount recovered.So the people we see even in wazua saying i know such and such a guy who bought flats sijui wapi, you will just need to call them KRA and they will investigate and you get your part.
But it being Kenya, hautapata chochote , the guy might propose a heavier amount to the KRA guy.
Swenani
#11 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:42:19 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
kiash wrote:
mwania wrote:
It is common knowledge that KRA officers are very different from the US IRS. Their objective in such access will mostly be to siphon money from you. In fact if, for example they find out that you owe KRA Ksh. 5m, they will ask you to pay KRA 500,000 and you give them 2m to clear you and in order to accomplish that, they will overrate the taxes owed, then blackmail you. And many people are not aware that you can apply for amnesty for penalties owed which will be the first thing the investigators use to blackmail people.. So, I personally would not support such an idea. Let them apply when necessary in their work, not a blanket access to any account.



That is why i said they cannot check the millions of accounts around. Infact it would work like if you denounce someone and they discover there has been hidden monies, you get a % of the amount recovered.So the people we see even in wazua saying i know such and such a guy who bought flats sijui wapi, you will just need to call them KRA and they will investigate and you get your part.
But it being Kenya, hautapata chochote , the guy might propose a heavier amount to the KRA guy.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
maka
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:50:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
mwania wrote:
It is common knowledge that KRA officers are very different from the US IRS. Their objective in such access will mostly be to siphon money from you. In fact if, for example they find out that you owe KRA Ksh. 5m, they will ask you to pay KRA 500,000 and you give them 2m to clear you and in order to accomplish that, they will overrate the taxes owed, then blackmail you. And many people are not aware that you can apply for amnesty for penalties owed which will be the first thing the investigators use to blackmail people.. So, I personally would not support such an idea. Let them apply when necessary in their work, not a blanket access to any account.


Very true...
possunt quia posse videntur
mkeiy
#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:59:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
As much as i personally don't like the proposed bill,the bigger picture looks colorful.

A good law for the country but painful to the concerned citizenry.

mlennyma
#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:00:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
maka wrote:
mwania wrote:
It is common knowledge that KRA officers are very different from the US IRS. Their objective in such access will mostly be to siphon money from you. In fact if, for example they find out that you owe KRA Ksh. 5m, they will ask you to pay KRA 500,000 and you give them 2m to clear you and in order to accomplish that, they will overrate the taxes owed, then blackmail you. And many people are not aware that you can apply for amnesty for penalties owed which will be the first thing the investigators use to blackmail people.. So, I personally would not support such an idea. Let them apply when necessary in their work, not a blanket access to any account.


Very true...

"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
Spikes
#15 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:07:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
mkeiy wrote:
As much as i personally don't like the proposed bill,the bigger picture looks colorful.

A good law for the country but painful to the concerned citizenry.




I oppose this bill ab initio . KRA officials are the most corrupt police department trailing them in the vice. That is a strategy to swindle/extort money from innocent Kenyans who don't understand the law properly. I can only support that idea if courts are involved that Wanjiko can move to corridors of justice to obtain an injunction.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
Swenani
#16 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:13:21 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Spikes wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
As much as i personally don't like the proposed bill,the bigger picture looks colorful.

A good law for the country but painful to the concerned citizenry.




I oppose this bill ab initio . KRA officials are the most corrupt police department trailing them in the vice. That is a strategy to swindle/extort money from innocent Kenyans who don't understand the law properly. I can only support that idea if courts are involved that Wanjiko can move to corridors of justice to obtain an injunction.


you can move to the corridors if you feel KRA froze your accounts unfairly
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
muganda
#17 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:16:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
Spikes wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
As much as i personally don't like the proposed bill,the bigger picture looks colorful.

A good law for the country but painful to the concerned citizenry.




I oppose this bill ab initio . KRA officials are the most corrupt police department trailing them in the vice. That is a strategy to swindle/extort money from innocent Kenyans who don't understand the law properly. I can only support that idea if courts are involved that Wanjiko can move to corridors of justice to obtain an injunction.


1. Agree on corruption
2. Nice balance in account or property will be equal to a KRA audit.
3. How will they enforce the same on MPs and power brokers who have the most side hustles?

This KRA regime is one of the least imaginative; several failures: from taxes on landlords, to random withholding agents, to capital gains tax.

They desperately made tax avoidance (as opposed to evasion) illegal, making other African countries attractive for foreign head offices.

Below target yet again. New thinking is required to stimulate Kenyans to pay tax.

maka
#18 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:23:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
muganda wrote:
Spikes wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
As much as i personally don't like the proposed bill,the bigger picture looks colorful.

A good law for the country but painful to the concerned citizenry.




I oppose this bill ab initio . KRA officials are the most corrupt police department trailing them in the vice. That is a strategy to swindle/extort money from innocent Kenyans who don't understand the law properly. I can only support that idea if courts are involved that Wanjiko can move to corridors of justice to obtain an injunction.


1. Agree on corruption
2. Nice balance in account or property will be equal to a KRA audit.
3. How will they enforce the same on MPs and power brokers who have the most side hustles?

This KRA regime is one of the least imaginative; several failures: from taxes on landlords, to random withholding agents, to capital gains tax.

They desperately made tax avoidance (as opposed to evasion) illegal, making other African countries attractive for foreign head offices.

Below target yet again. New thinking is required to stimulate Kenyans to pay tax.



The want to get McKinsey to helpSad
possunt quia posse videntur
Spikes
#19 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:26:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
muganda wrote:
Spikes wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
As much as i personally don't like the proposed bill,the bigger picture looks colorful.

A good law for the country but painful to the concerned citizenry.




I oppose this bill ab initio . KRA officials are the most corrupt police department trailing them in the vice. That is a strategy to swindle/extort money from innocent Kenyans who don't understand the law properly. I can only support that idea if courts are involved that Wanjiko can move to corridors of justice to obtain an injunction.


1. Agree on corruption
2. Nice balance in account or property will be equal to a KRA audit.
3. How will they enforce the same on MPs and power brokers who have the most side hustles?

This KRA regime is one of the least imaginative; several failures: from taxes on landlords, to random withholding agents, to capital gains tax.

They desperately made tax avoidance (as opposed to evasion) illegal, making other African countries attractive for foreign head offices.

Below target yet again. New thinking is required to stimulate Kenyans to pay tax.




We need another Opus Dei in KRA ndio haki itendeke. The current KRA leadership is incompetent to see viable popular actions.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
enyands
#20 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 4:36:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
kiash wrote:
Where i live, these local KRA guys have access to my account if they want thay just have to contact the bank. Its not only the KRA guys.Once one signs a job contract, to make sure you are paid,company verification, they have to get your bank account details.Actually there is what they call house allowance, aid to children (to sum it all , any money given to you from the state) is accessible online and from your account.
This happens incase you say you are unable to pay some creditors and even a "auctioneer" just goes to a judge and is given access to your bank account, the money you owe will be paid monthly ,you just agree on the amont and the period.
So unless you work in black market and paid in cash, utapatikana. This is usually used incase of divorce where one has to pay child support wanakata at the source.
So unless Mpigs think they will be affected, its not a big deal to apply. They will not look at 5 million bank accounts.Its only suspects and these suspects are thru denouncing from neighbours, unhappy spouses etc



I think where you come "from" you give your account to employer so that they can process your salary kwani where do you want them to give you salary to? Mattress bank?Laughing out loudly

Besides that the kra of your place access your bank account only when you are being audited and have refused to pay or come up with a payment plan otherwise they cannot just jump on your account to check details.even with that they are given a court order to do it .

Your kra is very powerful.citizens know they contribute to the kra of your place because they know their taxes will do something meaningful for them .sasa kenya unaota taxes then the likes of waiguru just takes your money away.do you think you will be comfortable to give again. These kra guys are just shallow minded.they need to come with innovative way of raising money .

MPigs will shoot this one down. Atleast they will know this idea isn't stupid enough to reach their srupidity threshold
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