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Elade Attack
hardwood
#241 Posted : Tuesday, April 19, 2016 9:55:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Alba wrote:
hindi ni riu wrote:


Ummmm...pull out the troops...to achieve what?


From my perspective, KDF should only deploy in places like El Adde if they are well equipped, protected and have people who can actually gather and use intelligence.

Apparently Al Shabab moved their equipment into the area days before and KDF did not even know. This is a failure of intelligence gathering.

Shaitans set up anti aircraft guns and KDF did not know because they don't fly reconnaisance missions.

And it is suggested that KDF were warned of an impending attack and did nothing.

As far as I am concerned, Kenya should not put troops in dangerous situations if we do not have the appropriate leadership and equipment. May as well bring them home. Huo ni upuzi. They just handed Shaitans a major propaganda victory that they can use to recruit misguided youth even in Kenya.


So when thugs attack a police station the solution is to close it down so as not to put officers in dangerous situations? I thought the solution would be to deploy more troops and equipment to beef up security and decimate the enemy.
tom_boy
#242 Posted : Tuesday, April 19, 2016 11:03:26 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
hardwood wrote:
Alba wrote:
hindi ni riu wrote:


Ummmm...pull out the troops...to achieve what?


From my perspective, KDF should only deploy in places like El Adde if they are well equipped, protected and have people who can actually gather and use intelligence.

Apparently Al Shabab moved their equipment into the area days before and KDF did not even know. This is a failure of intelligence gathering.

Shaitans set up anti aircraft guns and KDF did not know because they don't fly reconnaisance missions.

And it is suggested that KDF were warned of an impending attack and did nothing.

As far as I am concerned, Kenya should not put troops in dangerous situations if we do not have the appropriate leadership and equipment. May as well bring them home. Huo ni upuzi. They just handed Shaitans a major propaganda victory that they can use to recruit misguided youth even in Kenya.


So when thugs attack a police station the solution is to close it down so as not to put officers in dangerous situations? I thought the solution would be to deploy more troops and equipment to beef up security and decimate the enemy.


Useless war. It definitely has not gained us anything in the many years we've been there. Definition of foolishness right there.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Anti_Burglar
#243 Posted : Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:23:50 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024
hardwood wrote:
Alba wrote:
hindi ni riu wrote:


Ummmm...pull out the troops...to achieve what?


From my perspective, KDF should only deploy in places like El Adde if they are well equipped, protected and have people who can actually gather and use intelligence.

Apparently Al Shabab moved their equipment into the area days before and KDF did not even know. This is a failure of intelligence gathering.

Shaitans set up anti aircraft guns and KDF did not know because they don't fly reconnaisance missions.

And it is suggested that KDF were warned of an impending attack and did nothing.

As far as I am concerned, Kenya should not put troops in dangerous situations if we do not have the appropriate leadership and equipment. May as well bring them home. Huo ni upuzi. They just handed Shaitans a major propaganda victory that they can use to recruit misguided youth even in Kenya.


So when thugs attack a police station the solution is to close it down so as not to put officers in dangerous situations? I thought the solution would be to deploy more troops and equipment to beef up security and decimate the enemy.


Troop surge? Like what Americans did in Fallujah? Because of some rag tag boys in the scanty bushes of Somalia? This obsession with things American is your undoing! Expand the Forces Memorial Hospital first.
wanyee
#244 Posted : Tuesday, April 19, 2016 2:53:26 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
Option Z --> waachilie Ebola ukoo see how those foreign fighters will scamper ...the vaccine is at KEMRI kweli rongo?
Alba
#245 Posted : Tuesday, April 19, 2016 3:02:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
hardwood wrote:


So when thugs attack a police station the solution is to close it down so as not to put officers in dangerous situations? I thought the solution would be to deploy more troops and equipment to beef up security and decimate the enemy.


Thats the point. KDF were not equipped to be in a place as dangerous as El Adde nor did they have good enough leaders. They had no business being there. It was like going to a gunfight armed with a knife.
Othelo
#246 Posted : Tuesday, April 19, 2016 3:07:44 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
Alba wrote:
hardwood wrote:


So when thugs attack a police station the solution is to close it down so as not to put officers in dangerous situations? I thought the solution would be to deploy more troops and equipment to beef up security and decimate the enemy.


Thats the point. KDF were not equipped to be in a place as dangerous as El Adde nor did they have good enough leaders. They had no business being there. It was like going to a gunfight armed with a knife.

KDF didnot have good equipment for intelligence gathering and night combat ......... and you know why? ........ ask katumbo!!!
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
gregory
#247 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 8:29:58 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/2/2011
Posts: 176
What is more troubling for me after watching the video is the huge stockpile of weapons that Harakat Al Shaabab Al Mujahideen made away with!!! And the video narrator made a promise of more attcks, we just don't know when and where. Is somehing being done to recover the Ghanima?
timuka
#248 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:31:52 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/21/2013
Posts: 427
Alba wrote:
I watched the video but I would not recommend it.

I am taken aback at the lack of preparedness of KDF
IT appears hundreds, of Al Shaitan were able to approach the camp on foot, in pickups and with one large vehicle loaded with explosives (VBIED) . Yet they were not detected.
How can you set up camp in a dangerous area and not have basic detections like motion sensors, trip wires, booby traps, trenches ...................Even trained military dogs can be used to warn of oncoming insurgents.. The fact that Al Shaitan were able to come straight into the camp unseen is rather shocking.

Al Shaitan were equipped with night vision goggles and KDF were not. Even the camera they used to shoot the movie had night vision which is why the picture is clear as daylight. As such they could see KDF soldiers clearly and KDF were groping around in the dark. Thus they met very little resistance.

There was one KDF soldier who fought back by driving his armoured personnel carrier into Al Shaitan soldiers and even mowed down some of them. The carrier was eventually shot with an RPG And set ablaze. The KDF soldier emerges from the hatch to survey the scene. There are Al Shaitans right infront of him but it is apparent that he can't even see them again due to lack of night vision goggles. But they can see him clearly.

Perhaps the worst aspect of this attack is that both Uganda and Burundi were attacked in a similar fashion yet Kenya was not ready. This episode has left me with serious doubts about KDF leadership.



Really?
Intelligentsia
#249 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 10:32:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
gregory wrote:
What is more troubling for me after watching the video is the huge stockpile of weapons that Harakat Al Shaabab Al Mujahideen made away with!!! And the video narrator made a promise of more attcks, we just don't know when and where. Is somehing being done to recover the Ghanima?


@gregory? funny, but you don't sound Xstian to me at all. Isorait though.

I estimate at most only 1-2 vehicles are still out there with the al shaitans if at all; the response by KDF to el adde was overwhelming with the air force and special forces rigorously pursuing the booty/ the al shaitan infantry, them keeping in mind the APCs that had taken from Burundians/Ugandans at Janale was one of the ones used as a SVBIED, and they knew if they let the KDF ones disappear then that would be a SVIED to visit them later on.

But el adde was mbaya, frankly we were not even caught with our pants down but the pants totally out. Note the brave KDF soldier who mowed down the al shaitans with his PC was not even in his battle gear...no one will ever tell you the casualties - itakusaidiaje?

BTW note the vid is edited and you will not see any al shaitan casualties (at least 3 lorry loads of dead al shatains were removed from the theatre).

Some suggestions:

1) Quicken the pace of kdf modernization and give entire kdf modern equipment - esp counter-
insurgency ndeges can u imagine we couldnt respond with ndeges immediately coz of anti-
aircraft flak. They would have made a difference, but by denying us the airspace, Al shaitans
had more time to do their killings and loot. And while at it, plse retire the F-5, its too old -
for Christ's sake, Uhuru's dad bought them in 1978 when UK was still a teenager!
Ah, plse don't even show us on this on Madaraka day in 1.5 months time. Please.
2) KDF should also totally cut-off funding for al shaitan and sever their arms supply routes (good
that the western navies have seized boats with al shaitan arms) - I know UN doesnt refund us
Navy chums since rehatting to UNISOM but heck its our guys in harm's way so secure them,
3) enhance cooperation with other gavas in som theatre- ethiopian and updf (none responded to the
attack)
4) change their approach, not staying in bases then going out for patrol
5) go fully digital - use surveillance and armed drones. These are not as expe as new jet fighters
and we can get from China and Israel. Si our own generals actually went to China in 2012 to
check them out, kwani what were their findings? We can get our boots off and limit our
participation to targeted/ surgical strikes using UAVs, and occasional commando raids,
6) KDF budget is one of the largest in the region yet we have old equipment and antique jet-
fighters and transport planes and still our active personnel are low- is it only me or does
someone also feel something doesn't add about where the mullah goes? Plus remembering we kenyans
have a terrible appetite for public funds. Requires parliamentary oversight to ensure monies
goes where intended.
For folks who procure faulty or bad equipment to enrich themselves they should be tried for
treason as they are putting our troops in harm's way. Hakuna mchezo.
7) Thoroughly investigate the attack and adopt preventive practices, both immediate, short term and
long term. If we had done same for westgate, garissa, baragoi, lamu,etc we would have saved
many a lives thereafter - we didn't learn from them and in teh same way we didnt learn from al
shaitan attacks n somalia on Ug, Burundi and Ethiopians armies yet they all followed a similar
pattern. Learn the way the Colombians did in 1998, when FARC guerrillas overran an Army
battalion and Police unit, killing 150 personnel and capturing more than 40 soldiers. It is a
global best practice to do a post-mortem, diagnose, establish and implement recommendations.

8) most importantly, explore other polito-social solutions to the Somali mission - there's
a growing perception of a mission creep

IMHO, True amabassadors of Kenya over time have been our sports teams (athletes, Kenya Sevens and our volleyball girls) and KDF.

My 2 cents.

After the attack on our camp, the al shaitans passed near the ethiopian camp and were not confronted. Discuss (10 marks).


gregory
#250 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:23:28 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/2/2011
Posts: 176
Intelligentsia wrote:
gregory wrote:
What is more troubling for me after watching the video is the huge stockpile of weapons that Harakat Al Shaabab Al Mujahideen made away with!!! And the video narrator made a promise of more attcks, we just don't know when and where. Is somehing being done to recover the Ghanima?


@gregory? funny, but you don't sound Xstian to me at all. Isorait though.

I estimate at most only 1-2 vehicles are still out there with the al shaitans if at all; the response by KDF to el adde was overwhelming with the air force and special forces rigorously pursuing the booty/ the al shaitan infantry, them keeping in mind the APCs that had taken from Burundians/Ugandans at Janale was one of the ones used as a SVBIED, and they knew if they let the KDF ones disappear then that would be a SVIED to visit them later on.

But el adde was mbaya, frankly we were not even caught with our pants down but the pants totally out. Note the brave KDF soldier who mowed down the al shaitans with his PC was not even in his battle gear...no one will ever tell you the casualties - itakusaidiaje?

BTW note the vid is edited and you will not see any al shaitan casualties (at least 3 lorry loads of dead al shatains were removed from the theatre).

Some suggestions:

1) Quicken the pace of kdf modernization and give entire kdf modern equipment - esp counter-
insurgency ndeges can u imagine we couldnt respond with ndeges immediately coz of anti-
aircraft flak. They would have made a difference, but by denying us the airspace, Al shaitans
had more time to do their killings and loot. And while at it, plse retire the F-5, its too old -
for Christ's sake, Uhuru's dad bought them in 1978 when UK was still a teenager!
Ah, plse don't even show us on this on Madaraka day in 1.5 months time. Please.
2) KDF should also totally cut-off funding for al shaitan and sever their arms supply routes (good
that the western navies have seized boats with al shaitan arms) - I know UN doesnt refund us
Navy chums since rehatting to UNISOM but heck its our guys in harm's way so secure them,
3) enhance cooperation with other gavas in som theatre- ethiopian and updf (none responded to the
attack)
4) change their approach, not staying in bases then going out for patrol
5) go fully digital - use surveillance and armed drones. These are not as expe as new jet fighters
and we can get from China and Israel. Si our own generals actually went to China in 2012 to
check them out, kwani what were their findings? We can get our boots off and limit our
participation to targeted/ surgical strikes using UAVs, and occasional commando raids,
6) KDF budget is one of the largest in the region yet we have old equipment and antique jet-
fighters and transport planes and still our active personnel are low- is it only me or does
someone also feel something doesn't add about where the mullah goes? Plus remembering we kenyans
have a terrible appetite for public funds. Requires parliamentary oversight to ensure monies
goes where intended.
For folks who procure faulty or bad equipment to enrich themselves they should be tried for
treason as they are putting our troops in harm's way. Hakuna mchezo.
7) Thoroughly investigate the attack and adopt preventive practices, both immediate, short term and
long term. If we had done same for westgate, garissa, baragoi, lamu,etc we would have saved
many a lives thereafter - we didn't learn from them and in teh same way we didnt learn from al
shaitan attacks n somalia on Ug, Burundi and Ethiopians armies yet they all followed a similar
pattern. Learn the way the Colombians did in 1998, when FARC guerrillas overran an Army
battalion and Police unit, killing 150 personnel and capturing more than 40 soldiers. It is a
global best practice to do a post-mortem, diagnose, establish and implement recommendations.

8) most importantly, explore other polito-social solutions to the Somali mission - there's
a growing perception of a mission creep

IMHO, True amabassadors of Kenya over time have been our sports teams (athletes, Kenya Sevens and our volleyball girls) and KDF.

My 2 cents.

After the attack on our camp, the al shaitans passed near the ethiopian camp and were not confronted. Discuss (10 marks).


what does KDF hope to achieve in Somalia in the long run. The Mujahideen have proved their resilience in battle. They used to be mocked that they can't attck military targets but their methods have now changed. Cordinated assaults is now their norm. From the three that they have carried out quite successfully, icluding the now infamosu sheikh Abu yahya Al-libi raid, AMISOM has not taken any lessons. Look how easily the camp was penetrated. KDF should focus on securing our border and not engaging the Mujahideen in direct combat. we are counting casualties while they count martyrs! It's a pointless war. Get other countries in AMISOm to do the dirty work for us. Short of a nuclear attck on Somalia, that country is ungovernable evn with the most powerful military present
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