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Law Proposal: Importing vehicles older than 8 years
Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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So, the current rule is that no vehicles older than 8 years are allowed, problem with that law is that it is very unfair to those who value classic vehicles, they are locked out. Think e.g. concour d'elegance. Apparently, the reason for that law is to prevent beat cars from entering the country (safely, emissions). Going to extremes is easy, but finding a balance is more difficult, but with a balanced law, a win win situation will be created. The proposal is to amend the law so that it still fulfills the initial intention, while this time, not locking out those that value classical vehicles. The new law will be a balanced law, but a balanced law requires work, to think things out, hence the reason why going extreme is easy, as it is with the current law, that simply states, no vehicle older than 8 yrs is allowed. To amend the law to meet the above specifications could mean that old vehicles are allowed, but are taxed just high enough that one who just wants to get a cheap old vehicle will not see the point, they'd see that it will be better if he or she just gets one that is not older than 8 yrs, on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash. A win win win situation will be created, a balance. - The classic car person will be satisfied his or her classic vehicle. - The normal vehicle buyers will be protected from getting an older vehicle, by The individual seeing no point of getting an old vehicle, when a newer vehicle will cost just as much, maybe even cheaper than a highly-taxed older vehicle. - The government gets to collect tax on classic vehicles. They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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D32 wrote:So, the current rule is that no vehicles older than 8 years are allowed, problem with that law is that it is very unfair to those who value classic vehicles, they are locked out. Think e.g. concour d'elegance.
Apparently, the reason for that law is to prevent beat cars from entering the country (safely, emissions).
Going to extremes is easy, but finding a balance is more difficult, but with a balanced law, a win win situation will be created.
The proposal is to amend the law so that it still fulfills the initial intention, while this time, not locking out those that value classical vehicles. The new law will be a balanced law, but a balanced law requires work, to think things out, hence the reason why going extreme is easy, as it is with the current law, that simply states, no vehicle older than 8 yrs is allowed.
To amend the law to meet the above specifications could mean that old vehicles are allowed, but are taxed just high enough that one who just wants to get a cheap old vehicle will not see the point, they'd see that it will be better if he or she just gets one that is not older than 8 yrs, on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash.
A win win win situation will be created, a balance.
- The classic car person will be satisfied his or her classic vehicle. - The normal vehicle buyers will be protected from getting an older vehicle, by The individual seeing no point of getting an old vehicle, when a newer vehicle will cost just as much, maybe even cheaper than a highly-taxed older vehicle. - The government gets to collect tax on classic vehicles. Is this your proposal or something going on in parliament? i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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harrydre wrote:D32 wrote:So, the current rule is that no vehicles older than 8 years are allowed, problem with that law is that it is very unfair to those who value classic vehicles, they are locked out. Think e.g. concour d'elegance.
Apparently, the reason for that law is to prevent beat cars from entering the country (safely, emissions).
Going to extremes is easy, but finding a balance is more difficult, but with a balanced law, a win win situation will be created.
The proposal is to amend the law so that it still fulfills the initial intention, while this time, not locking out those that value classical vehicles. The new law will be a balanced law, but a balanced law requires work, to think things out, hence the reason why going extreme is easy, as it is with the current law, that simply states, no vehicle older than 8 yrs is allowed.
To amend the law to meet the above specifications could mean that old vehicles are allowed, but are taxed just high enough that one who just wants to get a cheap old vehicle will not see the point, they'd see that it will be better if he or she just gets one that is not older than 8 yrs, on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash.
A win win win situation will be created, a balance.
- The classic car person will be satisfied his or her classic vehicle. - The normal vehicle buyers will be protected from getting an older vehicle, by The individual seeing no point of getting an old vehicle, when a newer vehicle will cost just as much, maybe even cheaper than a highly-taxed older vehicle. - The government gets to collect tax on classic vehicles. Is this your proposal or something going on in parliament? My proposal. They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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D32 wrote:harrydre wrote:D32 wrote:So, the current rule is that no vehicles older than 8 years are allowed, problem with that law is that it is very unfair to those who value classic vehicles, they are locked out. Think e.g. concour d'elegance.
Apparently, the reason for that law is to prevent beat cars from entering the country (safely, emissions).
Going to extremes is easy, but finding a balance is more difficult, but with a balanced law, a win win situation will be created.
The proposal is to amend the law so that it still fulfills the initial intention, while this time, not locking out those that value classical vehicles. The new law will be a balanced law, but a balanced law requires work, to think things out, hence the reason why going extreme is easy, as it is with the current law, that simply states, no vehicle older than 8 yrs is allowed.
To amend the law to meet the above specifications could mean that old vehicles are allowed, but are taxed just high enough that one who just wants to get a cheap old vehicle will not see the point, they'd see that it will be better if he or she just gets one that is not older than 8 yrs, on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash.
A win win win situation will be created, a balance.
- The classic car person will be satisfied his or her classic vehicle. - The normal vehicle buyers will be protected from getting an older vehicle, by The individual seeing no point of getting an old vehicle, when a newer vehicle will cost just as much, maybe even cheaper than a highly-taxed older vehicle. - The government gets to collect tax on classic vehicles. Is this your proposal or something going on in parliament? My proposal. When are you tabling it in parliament? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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Is there aspects of eating that can be incorporated into that law? If yes, then you can start lobbying the relevant authorities.... Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/31/2007 Posts: 26
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Swenani wrote:D32 wrote:harrydre wrote:D32 wrote:So, the current rule is that no vehicles older than 8 years are allowed, problem with that law is that it is very unfair to those who value classic vehicles, they are locked out. Think e.g. concour d'elegance.
Apparently, the reason for that law is to prevent beat cars from entering the country (safely, emissions).
Going to extremes is easy, but finding a balance is more difficult, but with a balanced law, a win win situation will be created.
The proposal is to amend the law so that it still fulfills the initial intention, while this time, not locking out those that value classical vehicles. The new law will be a balanced law, but a balanced law requires work, to think things out, hence the reason why going extreme is easy, as it is with the current law, that simply states, no vehicle older than 8 yrs is allowed.
To amend the law to meet the above specifications could mean that old vehicles are allowed, but are taxed just high enough that one who just wants to get a cheap old vehicle will not see the point, they'd see that it will be better if he or she just gets one that is not older than 8 yrs, on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash.
A win win win situation will be created, a balance.
- The classic car person will be satisfied his or her classic vehicle. - The normal vehicle buyers will be protected from getting an older vehicle, by The individual seeing no point of getting an old vehicle, when a newer vehicle will cost just as much, maybe even cheaper than a highly-taxed older vehicle. - The government gets to collect tax on classic vehicles. Is this your proposal or something going on in parliament? My proposal. When are you tabling it in parliament?
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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Othelo wrote:Is there aspects of eating that can be incorporated into that law? If yes, then you can start lobbying the relevant authorities.... Not too sure what you mean. They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Years back,the law allowed for 6 year Jap/Orient mikebes,12 years for European cars and 14 years for American machines. Why not go that way? Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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mugz wrote: Swenani wrote:D32 wrote:harrydre wrote:D32 wrote:So, the current rule is that no vehicles older than 8 years are allowed, problem with that law is that it is very unfair to those who value classic vehicles, they are locked out. Think e.g. concour d'elegance.
Apparently, the reason for that law is to prevent beat cars from entering the country (safely, emissions).
Going to extremes is easy, but finding a balance is more difficult, but with a balanced law, a win win situation will be created.
The proposal is to amend the law so that it still fulfills the initial intention, while this time, not locking out those that value classical vehicles. The new law will be a balanced law, but a balanced law requires work, to think things out, hence the reason why going extreme is easy, as it is with the current law, that simply states, no vehicle older than 8 yrs is allowed.
To amend the law to meet the above specifications could mean that old vehicles are allowed, but are taxed just high enough that one who just wants to get a cheap old vehicle will not see the point, they'd see that it will be better if he or she just gets one that is not older than 8 yrs, on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash.
A win win win situation will be created, a balance.
- The classic car person will be satisfied his or her classic vehicle. - The normal vehicle buyers will be protected from getting an older vehicle, by The individual seeing no point of getting an old vehicle, when a newer vehicle will cost just as much, maybe even cheaper than a highly-taxed older vehicle. - The government gets to collect tax on classic vehicles. Is this your proposal or something going on in parliament? My proposal. When are you tabling it in parliament? Well,I'm hoping that parliamentarians pick this up. Please, if anyone in Wazua knows any parliamentarian, pls hit them up with this link. They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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Njung'e wrote:Years back,the law allowed for 6 year Jap/Orient mikebes,12 years for European cars and 14 years for American machines. Why not go that way? Classic vehicles can be much older, so not having an age limit is preferred. They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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D32 wrote:mugz wrote: Swenani wrote:D32 wrote:harrydre wrote:D32 wrote:So, the current rule is that no vehicles older than 8 years are allowed, problem with that law is that it is very unfair to those who value classic vehicles, they are locked out. Think e.g. concour d'elegance.
Apparently, the reason for that law is to prevent beat cars from entering the country (safely, emissions).
Going to extremes is easy, but finding a balance is more difficult, but with a balanced law, a win win situation will be created.
The proposal is to amend the law so that it still fulfills the initial intention, while this time, not locking out those that value classical vehicles. The new law will be a balanced law, but a balanced law requires work, to think things out, hence the reason why going extreme is easy, as it is with the current law, that simply states, no vehicle older than 8 yrs is allowed.
To amend the law to meet the above specifications could mean that old vehicles are allowed, but are taxed just high enough that one who just wants to get a cheap old vehicle will not see the point, they'd see that it will be better if he or she just gets one that is not older than 8 yrs, on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash.
A win win win situation will be created, a balance.
- The classic car person will be satisfied his or her classic vehicle. - The normal vehicle buyers will be protected from getting an older vehicle, by The individual seeing no point of getting an old vehicle, when a newer vehicle will cost just as much, maybe even cheaper than a highly-taxed older vehicle. - The government gets to collect tax on classic vehicles. Is this your proposal or something going on in parliament? My proposal. When are you tabling it in parliament? Well,I'm hoping that parliamentarians pick this up. Please, if anyone in Wazua knows any parliamentarian, pls hit them up with this link. Schedule an appointment with your member of parliament. That's why they were elected in the first place. There is a 99% chance he will ask for chicken but since you are a rich man, that should not be a problem. Quote:....on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash. i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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harrydre wrote:D32 wrote:mugz wrote: Swenani wrote:D32 wrote:harrydre wrote:D32 wrote:So, the current rule is that no vehicles older than 8 years are allowed, problem with that law is that it is very unfair to those who value classic vehicles, they are locked out. Think e.g. concour d'elegance.
Apparently, the reason for that law is to prevent beat cars from entering the country (safely, emissions).
Going to extremes is easy, but finding a balance is more difficult, but with a balanced law, a win win situation will be created.
The proposal is to amend the law so that it still fulfills the initial intention, while this time, not locking out those that value classical vehicles. The new law will be a balanced law, but a balanced law requires work, to think things out, hence the reason why going extreme is easy, as it is with the current law, that simply states, no vehicle older than 8 yrs is allowed.
To amend the law to meet the above specifications could mean that old vehicles are allowed, but are taxed just high enough that one who just wants to get a cheap old vehicle will not see the point, they'd see that it will be better if he or she just gets one that is not older than 8 yrs, on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash.
A win win win situation will be created, a balance.
- The classic car person will be satisfied his or her classic vehicle. - The normal vehicle buyers will be protected from getting an older vehicle, by The individual seeing no point of getting an old vehicle, when a newer vehicle will cost just as much, maybe even cheaper than a highly-taxed older vehicle. - The government gets to collect tax on classic vehicles. Is this your proposal or something going on in parliament? My proposal. When are you tabling it in parliament? Well,I'm hoping that parliamentarians pick this up. Please, if anyone in Wazua knows any parliamentarian, pls hit them up with this link. Schedule an appointment with your member of parliament. That's why they were elected in the first place. There is a 99% chance he will ask for chicken but since you are a rich man, that should not be a problem. Quote:....on the other hand, those who value classics, will be willing to pay because they know what they are getting, besides, the classic car will be from leisure cash. Ah, I see now. Thank you for the info. They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 2,306
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Methinks this is a useful proposal which just needs a good forward looking MP to advance. The taxes for a vehicle above 8 years could be set at a level that is too punitive as to ensure that importing such from Japan for instance is pointless - unless you fancy some classic vehicle. It could earn the gava more revenue actually Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/5/2011 Posts: 1,059
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They actually want to completely ban old cars kabisa Quote:http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/EA-states-join-hands-to-ban-importation-of-used-clothes--cars/-/2558/2634876/-/nemwm8z/-/index.html To Each His Own
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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kayhara wrote:They actually want to completely ban old cars kabisa Quote:http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/EA-states-join-hands-to-ban-importation-of-used-clothes--cars/-/2558/2634876/-/nemwm8z/-/index.html They = Jubilee? Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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Impunity wrote:kayhara wrote:They actually want to completely ban old cars kabisa Quote:http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/EA-states-join-hands-to-ban-importation-of-used-clothes--cars/-/2558/2634876/-/nemwm8z/-/index.html They = Jubilee? 'They' (thieves) want to take us to 80's when kids walked naked in the villages Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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Robinhood wrote:Methinks this is a useful proposal which just needs a good forward looking MP to advance. The taxes for a vehicle above 8 years could be set at a level that is too punitive as to ensure that importing such from Japan for instance is pointless - unless you fancy some classic vehicle.
It could earn the gava more revenue actually Yes! They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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kayhara wrote:They actually want to completely ban old cars kabisa Quote:http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/EA-states-join-hands-to-ban-importation-of-used-clothes--cars/-/2558/2634876/-/nemwm8z/-/index.html So EA wants to ban imports? Well, SA banned second-hand imports. http://www.iol.co.za/new...these-cheap-cars-280264
Good thing with SA is that they have diverse factories that assemble vehicles within the country. BMW, Benz, VW, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, Renult, Ford, thus allowing lower vehicle costs than if the vehicles were imported new. In addition, interest rates in SA are relatively low, at about 10%, with a strong rand (relative to KES), so lots of people can buy new cars with their first job. In Kenya, I know some trucks get assembled, not sure about sedans, which are the majority of vehicles on the road, so before Gov can effect that bill, they should be rational enough to first ensure that the people will have a decent variety of options. See this video below of a pile-up, see if you can identify the vehicles involved, those are "normal" or "average" types of vehicles found on SA roads. Point is that the quality of cars in Kenyan roads will improve with the ban of imports, but right now, I don't think that the economics match (Earnings vs cost of new vehicles). Local manufacturing will need to radically bring the price down, and people need to have good interest rates. With clothing, that ban can happen much earlier because making clothes is much easier, lots of folk can get self employed in manufacturing - creating a new class of people, to supply the traders, so the traders just switch from imports to local. On classic cars, they have a special place in economies globally. With SA, even though they have banned the importation of used vehicles, they have provision to import classic cars, why should Kenya not have the provision? Quoting: "Vintage vehicles (40 years old or older) and vehicles which are regarded as collectors’ vehicles are also allowed in. Collectors’ items are not so easy to define, so the DTI (Department of Trade and Industry) discusses requests with the South African Veteran and Vintage Association, which complies with international criteria." http://www.carmag.co.za/...car-can-be-a-nightmare/
SAVVA Website: http://savva.org.za/About.html
The South African Veteran and Vintage Association website classifies classic vehicles up to Class G. The only thing that I wonder about class G is with regards to the age limit. They say that class G begins from 1971 going forward "to the SAVVA age Limit as defined in the Constituition". If the constitution says that the minimum age of a classic vehicle is 20 years, it means that newer vehicles that are considered to be iconic in the motoring fraternity will be locked out because they are not at least 20 years, e.g. the R34. https://en.wikipedia.org....281999.E2.80.932002.29 The proposal for Kenya's law should not have minimum age requirements of what should be considered to be a classic, as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Paul Walker's collection, a true motor head from Fast and Furious would not have his collection if he lived in Kenya, as most, of the iconic vehicles that he has are older than 8 years. http://topmotors.com/new...ast-check-out-his-garageThey tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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D32 wrote:[quote=kayhara]They actually want to completely ban old cars kabisa Quote:http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/EA-states-join-hands-to-ban-importation-of-used-clothes--cars/-/2558/2634876/-/nemwm8z/-/index.html So EA wants to ban imports? Well, SA banned second-hand imports. http://www.iol.co.za/new...these-cheap-cars-280264
Good thing with SA is that they have diverse factories that assemble vehicles within the country. BMW, Benz, VW, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, Renult, Ford, thus allowing lower vehicle costs than if the vehicles were imported new. In addition, interest rates in SA are relatively low, at about 10%, with a strong rand (relative to KES), so lots of people can buy new cars with their first job. In Kenya, I know some trucks get assembled, not sure about sedans, which are the majority of vehicles on the road, so before Gov can effect that bill, they should be rational enough to first ensure that the people will have a decent variety of options. See this video below of a pile-up, see if you can identify the vehicles involved, those are "normal" or "average" types of vehicles found on SA roads. Point is that the quality of cars in Kenyan roads will improve with the ban of imports, but right now, I don't think that the economics match (Earnings vs cost of new vehicles). Local manufacturing will need to radically bring the price down, and people need to have good interest rates. With clothing, that ban can happen much earlier because making clothes is much easier, lots of folk can get self employed in manufacturing - creating a new class of people, to supply the traders, so the traders just switch from imports to local. On classic cars, they have a special place in economies globally. With SA, even though they have banned the importation of used vehicles, they have provision to import classic cars, why should Kenya not have the provision? Quoting: "Vintage vehicles (40 years old or older) and vehicles which are regarded as collectors’ vehicles are also allowed in. Collectors’ items are not so easy to define, so the DTI (Department of Trade and Industry) discusses requests with the South African Veteran and Vintage Association, which complies with international criteria." http://www.carmag.co.za/...car-can-be-a-nightmare/
SAVVA Website: http://savva.org.za/About.html
The South African Veteran and Vintage Association website classifies classic vehicles up to Class G. The only thing that I wonder about class G is with regards to the age limit. They say that class G begins from 1971 going forward "to the SAVVA age Limit as defined in the Constituition". If the constitution says that the minimum age of a classic vehicle is 20 years, it means that newer vehicles that are considered to be iconic in the motoring fraternity will be locked out because they are not at least 20 years, e.g. the R34. https://en.wikipedia.org....281999.E2.80.932002.29 The proposal for Kenya's law should not have minimum age requirements of what should be considered to be a classic, as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Paul Walker's collection, a true motor head from Fast and Furious would not have his collection if he lived in Kenya, as most, of the iconic vehicles that he has are older than 8 years. http://topmotors.com/new...st-check-out-his-garage[/quote] Nani ata summarize? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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Banning mutumba cars/whatever else mutumba is the best thing that could happen to Kenya and the region. There is an economics paper written in 1970 that won the nobel prize featuring "lowered expectations" by the public where second hand cars were used as a model when studying information asymmetry (when fellas don't know exactly what is best for them). It is called "The market for lemons" Generally once the population starts accepting junk, the sellers/business people change modus operendi to supply even worse junk!! Talk of mutumba underwear, socks, bras e.t.c all beggining from mutumba suits. Acres upon acres in nairobi of squeezed houses without sewerage systems, pour sewage in the drainage's at night showers on top of the toilet e.t.c. Even in a "free market", goods/services/products that are injurious to the public should not be allowed. A major implication for instance is when banks give loans to buy this junk, in japan the junks are sold for 2,500/- usd, their actual values, when the junk arrives in Kenya it is changed to 7,500/- usd by AA or or other "valuers", i.e the selling (market) price in Kenya, a bank then gives out tens of billions in loans to buy this junks and ends up with a loan book that has 3 times it's actual value in guaranteed assets booked (if you were to compare books/values internationally). What happens when a real natural "global" valuation by market forces takes place which is an unavoidable eventuality, same for the "junk" houses that will eventually need to be redeveloped and the values slashed? The junk is now worth 1000/- usd and the bank has a value of 7000/- usd in it's books. Kenyans expectations were really lowered during the moi era where bludgeoning industries were killed by his spoilt brats and the same given "import licenses" to further destroy the economy. His brats were given exclusive license to import this junks in the 90's. One of Kenyas main problems is this "crisis of lowered expectations" which Kenyans developed in the nyayo era. They grew immune to potholes, 20hour daily power blackouts, thieves, mitumba cars, corrupt police, unplanned quasi ghetto developments of gorafas with toilets in shower e.t.c and stopped saying hallo to each other on the streets which was common in the 70's early 80's, they became angry!!! A good strategy to lift Kenyans expectations is needed, banning second hand cars is a good beginning. Otherwise we shall end up at best like mexico or brazil, a "sprawling ghetto of a country". A New Kenya
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