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SHIITE vs SUNNI
Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Quote:The human mind works in strange ways. Whenever a person -- even a highly trained scientist -- starts an investigation based upon prior presuppositions, he is likely to try to make the facts fit his presupposition rather than letting the facts lead him to the proper conclusion. Of course it is only muslims who are objective and whose brains work right. Until they start chopping THEN their minds also work in strange ways, right? @Burglar, chop what? You just confirmed the quote, by posting " ...based upon prior presuppositions"  Chopping various things, wrists, necks etc. But Koran is the foundation upon which that presupposition firmly rests. Facts firmly rests there, the two true authentic sources of Islam: the Quran, which is 100% the Word of God and the authentic Hadith, which is the words, saying and tradition of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Anything else is presumption and offers no solution to problems facing humanity today! No solution! Islam gives you an answer to this problem of theft. I'm asking in this boasting of yours, what is the solution to this problem of theft? NOTE: AND FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO MISUNDERSTAND ME RIGHT NOW. I AM NOT IN ANYWAY SUGGESTING ANYTHING REGARDING SO CALLED SUNNI VS SHIA. I AM JUST RESPONDING TO COMMON DANGER OF PRESUPPOSITION. QuranismQuote:Quranism (Arabic: القرآنية; al-Qur'āniyya) describes any form of Islam that accepts the Quran as scripture, but rejects the religious authority of the Hadith, which all Muslims consider to be essential for understanding Islam. Quranists follow the Quran alone. They believe that its message is clear and complete, and that it can therefore be fully understood without referencing the Hadith. Shia and Sunni textual traditionsQuote:Sunni and Shia hadith collections differ because scholars from the two traditions differ as to the reliability of the narrators and transmitters. Quran 5:32-33 wrote:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
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Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
Quran 5:38 wrote:[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah . And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. If verse 38 is a valid solution, then what solutions are being offered by verse 32 & 33?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Quote:The human mind works in strange ways. Whenever a person -- even a highly trained scientist -- starts an investigation based upon prior presuppositions, he is likely to try to make the facts fit his presupposition rather than letting the facts lead him to the proper conclusion. Of course it is only muslims who are objective and whose brains work right. Until they start chopping THEN their minds also work in strange ways, right? @Burglar, chop what? You just confirmed the quote, by posting " ...based upon prior presuppositions" Chopping various things, wrists, necks etc. But Koran is the foundation upon which that presupposition firmly rests. Facts firmly rests there, the two true authentic sources of Islam: the Quran, which is 100% the Word of God and the authentic Hadith, which is the words, saying and tradition of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Anything else is presumption and offers no solution to problems facing humanity today! No solution! Islam gives you an answer to this problem of theft. I'm asking in this boasting of yours, what is the solution to this problem of theft? NOTE: AND FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO MISUNDERSTAND ME RIGHT NOW. I AM NOT IN ANYWAY SUGGESTING ANYTHING REGARDING SO CALLED SUNNI VS SHIA. I AM JUST RESPONDING TO COMMON DANGER OF PRESUPPOSITION. Koran presupposes it has the answer to theft and offers a superficial suggestion that it insists is a solution. Because for one born without hands and has become adept in using other things, theft is still possible. Quran gives a solution! I asked you what is your solution? What you find is that, when the law is applied, you find the society rate of theft drops drastically. Because it creates a sense of security within a society. A society, where people are not obliged to use large locks and steel doors, put on burglar alarms, all these kinds of things, which are prominent in places like our country Kenya and western countries! People live in fear of break-ins. And if the person continues the crime even after all that is done, the law permits his execution. This means this is obviously a criminal who cannot be reformed, because he's a danger to the society and no way of controlling him. So that individual's life is taken for the protection of the society. NOTE: even you, as your name suggests, if you continue to carry out with " Burglary", then you would face execution. No one wants Burglars
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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¿ wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Quote:The human mind works in strange ways. Whenever a person -- even a highly trained scientist -- starts an investigation based upon prior presuppositions, he is likely to try to make the facts fit his presupposition rather than letting the facts lead him to the proper conclusion. Of course it is only muslims who are objective and whose brains work right. Until they start chopping THEN their minds also work in strange ways, right? @Burglar, chop what? You just confirmed the quote, by posting " ...based upon prior presuppositions" Chopping various things, wrists, necks etc. But Koran is the foundation upon which that presupposition firmly rests. Facts firmly rests there, the two true authentic sources of Islam: the Quran, which is 100% the Word of God and the authentic Hadith, which is the words, saying and tradition of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Anything else is presumption and offers no solution to problems facing humanity today! No solution! Islam gives you an answer to this problem of theft. I'm asking in this boasting of yours, what is the solution to this problem of theft? NOTE: AND FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO MISUNDERSTAND ME RIGHT NOW. I AM NOT IN ANYWAY SUGGESTING ANYTHING REGARDING SO CALLED SUNNI VS SHIA. I AM JUST RESPONDING TO COMMON DANGER OF PRESUPPOSITION. QuranismQuote:Quranism (Arabic: القرآنية; al-Qur'āniyya) describes any form of Islam that accepts the Quran as scripture, but rejects the religious authority of the Hadith, which all Muslims consider to be essential for understanding Islam. Quranists follow the Quran alone. They believe that its message is clear and complete, and that it can therefore be fully understood without referencing the Hadith. Shia and Sunni textual traditionsQuote:Sunni and Shia hadith collections differ because scholars from the two traditions differ as to the reliability of the narrators and transmitters. Quran 5:32-33 wrote:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
....
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
Quran 5:38 wrote:[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah . And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. If verse 38 is a valid solution, then what solutions are being offered by verse 32 & 33? It means, there is saving of many lives by taking one life, the murderer or burglar or rapist etc...
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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AlphDoti wrote:¿ wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Quote:The human mind works in strange ways. Whenever a person -- even a highly trained scientist -- starts an investigation based upon prior presuppositions, he is likely to try to make the facts fit his presupposition rather than letting the facts lead him to the proper conclusion. Of course it is only muslims who are objective and whose brains work right. Until they start chopping THEN their minds also work in strange ways, right? @Burglar, chop what? You just confirmed the quote, by posting " ...based upon prior presuppositions" Chopping various things, wrists, necks etc. But Koran is the foundation upon which that presupposition firmly rests. Facts firmly rests there, the two true authentic sources of Islam: the Quran, which is 100% the Word of God and the authentic Hadith, which is the words, saying and tradition of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Anything else is presumption and offers no solution to problems facing humanity today! No solution! Islam gives you an answer to this problem of theft. I'm asking in this boasting of yours, what is the solution to this problem of theft? NOTE: AND FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO MISUNDERSTAND ME RIGHT NOW. I AM NOT IN ANYWAY SUGGESTING ANYTHING REGARDING SO CALLED SUNNI VS SHIA. I AM JUST RESPONDING TO COMMON DANGER OF PRESUPPOSITION. QuranismQuote:Quranism (Arabic: القرآنية; al-Qur'āniyya) describes any form of Islam that accepts the Quran as scripture, but rejects the religious authority of the Hadith, which all Muslims consider to be essential for understanding Islam. Quranists follow the Quran alone. They believe that its message is clear and complete, and that it can therefore be fully understood without referencing the Hadith. Shia and Sunni textual traditionsQuote:Sunni and Shia hadith collections differ because scholars from the two traditions differ as to the reliability of the narrators and transmitters. Quran 5:32-33 wrote:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
....
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
Quran 5:38 wrote:[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah . And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. If verse 38 is a valid solution, then what solutions are being offered by verse 32 & 33? It means, there is saving of many lives by taking one life, the murderer or burglar or rapist etc... ...apostates and whoever else Islam can fit into that category. It also means killing,amputating,crucifying and exiling others is a part of Islam or as you have put it, solutions to the problems facing humanity.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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¿ wrote:AlphDoti wrote:¿ wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Quote:The human mind works in strange ways. Whenever a person -- even a highly trained scientist -- starts an investigation based upon prior presuppositions, he is likely to try to make the facts fit his presupposition rather than letting the facts lead him to the proper conclusion. Of course it is only muslims who are objective and whose brains work right. Until they start chopping THEN their minds also work in strange ways, right? @Burglar, chop what? You just confirmed the quote, by posting " ...based upon prior presuppositions" Chopping various things, wrists, necks etc. But Koran is the foundation upon which that presupposition firmly rests. Facts firmly rests there, the two true authentic sources of Islam: the Quran, which is 100% the Word of God and the authentic Hadith, which is the words, saying and tradition of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Anything else is presumption and offers no solution to problems facing humanity today! No solution! Islam gives you an answer to this problem of theft. I'm asking in this boasting of yours, what is the solution to this problem of theft? NOTE: AND FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO MISUNDERSTAND ME RIGHT NOW. I AM NOT IN ANYWAY SUGGESTING ANYTHING REGARDING SO CALLED SUNNI VS SHIA. I AM JUST RESPONDING TO COMMON DANGER OF PRESUPPOSITION. QuranismQuote:Quranism (Arabic: القرآنية; al-Qur'āniyya) describes any form of Islam that accepts the Quran as scripture, but rejects the religious authority of the Hadith, which all Muslims consider to be essential for understanding Islam. Quranists follow the Quran alone. They believe that its message is clear and complete, and that it can therefore be fully understood without referencing the Hadith. Shia and Sunni textual traditionsQuote:Sunni and Shia hadith collections differ because scholars from the two traditions differ as to the reliability of the narrators and transmitters. Quran 5:32-33 wrote:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
....
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
Quran 5:38 wrote:[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah . And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. If verse 38 is a valid solution, then what solutions are being offered by verse 32 & 33? It means, there is saving of many lives by taking one life, the murderer or burglar or rapist etc... ...apostates and whoever else Islam can fit into that category. It also means killing,amputating,crucifying and exiling others is a part of Islam or as you have put it, solutions to the problems facing humanity. God has prescribed a punishment for each crime against another human being. The punishment depends on the circumstances and severity of the offence. And as I said, the punishment may seem so harsh, but it carries with it deterrent value. Theft for example, the idea of loosing ones hand is something which causes one to think twice.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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@AlphDoti - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=713958#post713958
¿ wrote:Arab foreign ministers accuse Iran of undermining regional securityQuote:"Iran has to decide what kind of neighbor it wants to be: a good neighbor or a chaotic neighbor and so far it behaves like the latter," UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan said following an emergency Arab League meeting in Cairo. Quote:If Iran continues to support "terrorism, sectarianism and violence", it would face opposition from all Arab countries, Jubeir told a news conference following the meeting. I'll wait and see how those solutions play out in the middle east.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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¿ wrote:@AlphDoti - http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...amp;m=713958#post713958
¿ wrote:Arab foreign ministers accuse Iran of undermining regional securityQuote:"Iran has to decide what kind of neighbor it wants to be: a good neighbor or a chaotic neighbor and so far it behaves like the latter," UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan said following an emergency Arab League meeting in Cairo. Quote:If Iran continues to support "terrorism, sectarianism and violence", it would face opposition from all Arab countries, Jubeir told a news conference following the meeting. I'll wait and see how those solutions play out in the middle east. You will wait until Jesus (pbuh) comes back. The Sunnis and Shias is a MYTH. The Truth is about POWER. It is POLITICS! POLITICS! POLITICS! I said that here...
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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AlphDoti wrote:¿ wrote:@AlphDoti - http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&m=713958#post713958¿ wrote:Arab foreign ministers accuse Iran of undermining regional securityQuote:"Iran has to decide what kind of neighbor it wants to be: a good neighbor or a chaotic neighbor and so far it behaves like the latter," UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan said following an emergency Arab League meeting in Cairo. Quote:If Iran continues to support "terrorism, sectarianism and violence", it would face opposition from all Arab countries, Jubeir told a news conference following the meeting. I'll wait and see how those solutions play out in the middle east. You will wait until Jesus (pbuh) comes back. The Sunnis and Shias is a MYTH. The Truth is about POWER. It is POLITICS! POLITICS! POLITICS! I said that here... What you are suggesting is that you can separate Islam from politics/power when there is little to no separation of mosque and state.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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¿ wrote:AlphDoti wrote:¿ wrote:@AlphDoti - http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&m=713958#post713958¿ wrote:Arab foreign ministers accuse Iran of undermining regional securityQuote:"Iran has to decide what kind of neighbor it wants to be: a good neighbor or a chaotic neighbor and so far it behaves like the latter," UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan said following an emergency Arab League meeting in Cairo. Quote:If Iran continues to support "terrorism, sectarianism and violence", it would face opposition from all Arab countries, Jubeir told a news conference following the meeting. I'll wait and see how those solutions play out in the middle east. You will wait until Jesus (pbuh) comes back. The Sunnis and Shias is a MYTH. The Truth is about POWER. It is POLITICS! POLITICS! POLITICS! I said that here... What you are suggesting is that you can separate Islam from politics/power when there is little to no separation of mosque and state. No, you cannot separate Islam and the state. In Islam, the management of the affairs of the people (which you call politics), should be according to the Quran and the Sunnah. Unfortunately, regarding the Middle-East, its leaders have ignored the Quran and Hadith in most of their undertakings... Just take an example of Quranic teachings on unity and brotherhood, which they do not follow. Instead, they follow Western ideals.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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AlphDoti wrote:¿ wrote:AlphDoti wrote:¿ wrote:@AlphDoti - http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&m=713958#post713958¿ wrote:Arab foreign ministers accuse Iran of undermining regional securityQuote:"Iran has to decide what kind of neighbor it wants to be: a good neighbor or a chaotic neighbor and so far it behaves like the latter," UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan said following an emergency Arab League meeting in Cairo. Quote:If Iran continues to support "terrorism, sectarianism and violence", it would face opposition from all Arab countries, Jubeir told a news conference following the meeting. I'll wait and see how those solutions play out in the middle east. You will wait until Jesus (pbuh) comes back. The Sunnis and Shias is a MYTH. The Truth is about POWER. It is POLITICS! POLITICS! POLITICS! I said that here... What you are suggesting is that you can separate Islam from politics/power when there is little to no separation of mosque and state. No, you cannot separate Islam and the state. In Islam, the management of the affairs of the people (which you call politics), should be according to the Quran and the Sunnah. Unfortunately, regarding the Middle-East, its leaders have ignored the Quran and Hadith in most of their undertakings... Just take an example of Quranic teachings on unity and brotherhood, which they do not follow. Instead, they follow Western ideals. When things are good it's Islam. When things are bad it's the leaders and western ideals. Why are these leaders so hell bent on spreading Islam and the solutions it offers to the rest of the world?
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