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Just How Big the Universe is
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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¿ wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:harrydre wrote:but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? I am not sure they can explain. The direction Science is taking seems to show that the questions of 'what...' or 'where...' are simply not answerable, unless as theoretical postulates, in a universe where none of the things we take for granted seem real. A sample: - String theory - the basic nature of reality is not particles or waves but strings, whose vibration creates the patterns we perceive as objects... - The Universe as a hologram - none of the things we perceive are real. They are projections of.... - Quantum theory - time does not exist, neither does space, nor particles/waves etc unless you 'the observer decrees it so' (you create your own reality) And now we have gravity waves. Remember that gravity is not a 'thing' according to Einstein but the effect of space/time curving in the presence of mass or acceleration. So what exactly did LIGO see? Illusion upon illusion. Is it any wonder that the language of Scientists is sounding increasingly religious? If they are answerable, then big science would likely determine if and when we get the answers. Big science does not exist. If it did it would answer that. Big Science - It does 'exist'. They don't have to answer anything when theories and the narratives built around them can be taken as truth. It must be very lazy science. Of what use is it then? It is as good as non-existent.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:harrydre wrote:but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? I am not sure they can explain. The direction Science is taking seems to show that the questions of 'what...' or 'where...' are simply not answerable, unless as theoretical postulates, in a universe where none of the things we take for granted seem real. A sample: - String theory - the basic nature of reality is not particles or waves but strings, whose vibration creates the patterns we perceive as objects... - The Universe as a hologram - none of the things we perceive are real. They are projections of.... - Quantum theory - time does not exist, neither does space, nor particles/waves etc unless you 'the observer decrees it so' (you create your own reality) And now we have gravity waves. Remember that gravity is not a 'thing' according to Einstein but the effect of space/time curving in the presence of mass or acceleration. So what exactly did LIGO see? Illusion upon illusion. Is it any wonder that the language of Scientists is sounding increasingly religious? If they are answerable, then big science would likely determine if and when we get the answers. Big science does not exist. If it did it would answer that. Big Science - It does 'exist'. They don't have to answer anything when theories and the narratives built around them can be taken as truth. It must be very lazy science. Of what use is it then? It is as good as non-existent. Until it's not.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/27/2010 Posts: 495 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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¿ wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:harrydre wrote:but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? I am not sure they can explain. The direction Science is taking seems to show that the questions of 'what...' or 'where...' are simply not answerable, unless as theoretical postulates, in a universe where none of the things we take for granted seem real. A sample: - String theory - the basic nature of reality is not particles or waves but strings, whose vibration creates the patterns we perceive as objects... - The Universe as a hologram - none of the things we perceive are real. They are projections of.... - Quantum theory - time does not exist, neither does space, nor particles/waves etc unless you 'the observer decrees it so' (you create your own reality) And now we have gravity waves. Remember that gravity is not a 'thing' according to Einstein but the effect of space/time curving in the presence of mass or acceleration. So what exactly did LIGO see? Illusion upon illusion. Is it any wonder that the language of Scientists is sounding increasingly religious? If they are answerable, then big science would likely determine if and when we get the answers. Big science does not exist. If it did it would answer that. Big Science - It does 'exist'. They don't have to answer anything when theories and the narratives built around them can be taken as truth. It must be very lazy science. Of what use is it then? It is as good as non-existent. Until it's not. Arrrghhh.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/4/2007 Posts: 1,162
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Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. 'Singularity' is 'God'. That's the conclusion many are grappling to reconcile with. But in due time...
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:harrydre wrote:but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? I am not sure they can explain. The direction Science is taking seems to show that the questions of 'what...' or 'where...' are simply not answerable, unless as theoretical postulates, in a universe where none of the things we take for granted seem real. A sample: - String theory - the basic nature of reality is not particles or waves but strings, whose vibration creates the patterns we perceive as objects... - The Universe as a hologram - none of the things we perceive are real. They are projections of.... - Quantum theory - time does not exist, neither does space, nor particles/waves etc unless you 'the observer decrees it so' (you create your own reality) And now we have gravity waves. Remember that gravity is not a 'thing' according to Einstein but the effect of space/time curving in the presence of mass or acceleration. So what exactly did LIGO see? Illusion upon illusion. Is it any wonder that the language of Scientists is sounding increasingly religious? If they are answerable, then big science would likely determine if and when we get the answers. Big science does not exist. If it did it would answer that. Big Science - It does 'exist'. They don't have to answer anything when theories and the narratives built around them can be taken as truth. It must be very lazy science. Of what use is it then? It is as good as non-existent. Until it's not. Arrrghhh. Independent verification of findings is difficult and practical applications elusive but that can change. In the meantime, welcome to the metaphysical side of physics.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. In other words time as we know it does not exist (Professor Hawkins book was clearly mis-titled). If we accept this as a fact, then the whole "reality" house of card comes tumbling down...namely, there is no space, no change, no distance, no acceleration etc. I think Tycho got it right; the entire Universe, including you and I, is a singularity. This singularity (or 'all that is' - to borrow a term from the New Age crowd) is indeed God. What else could we call it? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Wakanyugi wrote:majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. In other words time as we know it does not exist (Professor Hawkins book was clearly mis-titled). If we accept this as a fact, then the whole "reality" house of card comes tumbling down...namely, there is no space, no change, no distance, no acceleration etc. I think Tycho got it right; the entire Universe, including you and I, is a singularity. This singularity (or 'all that is' - to borrow a term from the New Age crowd) is indeed God. What else could we call it? No science?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. In other words time as we know it does not exist (Professor Hawkins book was clearly mis-titled). If we accept this as a fact, then the whole "reality" house of card comes tumbling down...namely, there is no space, no change, no distance, no acceleration etc. I think Tycho got it right; the entire Universe, including you and I, is a singularity. This singularity (or 'all that is' - to borrow a term from the New Age crowd) is indeed God. What else could we call it? No science? It is dead? Hello, brother?
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. In other words time as we know it does not exist (Professor Hawkins book was clearly mis-titled). If we accept this as a fact, then the whole "reality" house of card comes tumbling down...namely, there is no space, no change, no distance, no acceleration etc. I think Tycho got it right; the entire Universe, including you and I, is a singularity. This singularity (or 'all that is' - to borrow a term from the New Age crowd) is indeed God. What else could we call it? No science? It is dead? Hello, brother? Hello. It seems like it's dying but the narratives will live.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Man dies when he alienates himself from singularity. Science lives and dies with Man.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. In other words time as we know it does not exist (Professor Hawkins book was clearly mis-titled). If we accept this as a fact, then the whole "reality" house of card comes tumbling down...namely, there is no space, no change, no distance, no acceleration etc. I think Tycho got it right; the entire Universe, including you and I, is a singularity. This singularity (or 'all that is' - to borrow a term from the New Age crowd) is indeed God. What else could we call it? No science? Definitely 'no science' as we know it. The faith we have in science, to answer all questions, seems to be as misplaced as the faith in religion that many of us tend to deride. In fact on the intractable questions of life, origins and all that, religion seems to have better answers. For instance, on the illusory nature of reality: - 'all is maya' The Gita - Everything is vanity and striving after the weed - the Bible etc "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Wakanyugi wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. In other words time as we know it does not exist (Professor Hawkins book was clearly mis-titled). If we accept this as a fact, then the whole "reality" house of card comes tumbling down...namely, there is no space, no change, no distance, no acceleration etc. I think Tycho got it right; the entire Universe, including you and I, is a singularity. This singularity (or 'all that is' - to borrow a term from the New Age crowd) is indeed God. What else could we call it? No science? Definitely 'no science' as we know it. The faith we have in science, to answer all questions, seems to be as misplaced as the faith in religion that many of us tend to deride. In fact on the intractable questions of life, origins and all that, religion seems to have better answers. For instance, on the illusory nature of reality: - 'all is maya' The Gita - Everything is vanity and striving after the weed - the Bible etc What would that 'new science' look like and what role will faith play in it?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. In other words time as we know it does not exist (Professor Hawkins book was clearly mis-titled). If we accept this as a fact, then the whole "reality" house of card comes tumbling down...namely, there is no space, no change, no distance, no acceleration etc. I think Tycho got it right; the entire Universe, including you and I, is a singularity. This singularity (or 'all that is' - to borrow a term from the New Age crowd) is indeed God. What else could we call it? No science? Definitely 'no science' as we know it. The faith we have in science, to answer all questions, seems to be as misplaced as the faith in religion that many of us tend to deride. In fact on the intractable questions of life, origins and all that, religion seems to have better answers. For instance, on the illusory nature of reality: - 'all is maya' The Gita - Everything is vanity and striving after the weed - the Bible etc What would that 'new science' look like and what role will faith play in it? Groan! It has resurrected?
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Anti_Burglar wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:¿ wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:majimaji wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:[quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Anti_Burglar][quote=¿][quote=Wakanyugi][quote=harrydre]but these scientists need to explain where that original matter that blew up during the big bang came from! just how far back can they go? The causality dilemma is a common fallacy expressed otherwise with the question: what came first, the egg or the chicken? Stephen Hawking has postulated in his book "A Brief History of Time" that the universe has no beginning or end and therefore does not need a Creator. It means then that chicken and eggs can have existed at the same time and one does not have to precede the other. In the same vein, asking where the original matter came from milliseconds before the big bang is also a fallacious premise. In other words time as we know it does not exist (Professor Hawkins book was clearly mis-titled). If we accept this as a fact, then the whole "reality" house of card comes tumbling down...namely, there is no space, no change, no distance, no acceleration etc. I think Tycho got it right; the entire Universe, including you and I, is a singularity. This singularity (or 'all that is' - to borrow a term from the New Age crowd) is indeed God. What else could we call it? No science? Definitely 'no science' as we know it. The faith we have in science, to answer all questions, seems to be as misplaced as the faith in religion that many of us tend to deride. In fact on the intractable questions of life, origins and all that, religion seems to have better answers. For instance, on the illusory nature of reality: - 'all is maya' The Gita - Everything is vanity and striving after the weed - the Bible etc What would that 'new science' look like and what role will faith play in it? Groan! It has resurrected? 
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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Scientists trace mystery ‘alien signals’ to distant galaxyQuote:The discovery might also shed some light on the “missing matter question” question. Scientists believe that the universe consists of 70 percent dark energy, 25 percent undetermined dark matter, and around five percent ordinary matter or, more specifically, what planets and stars are made of.
Astronomers are currently only able to identify half of the ordinary matter, while the other half is labelled as “missing matter.” Ok.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Science does not claim to have all the answers. Its a process of discovery. New discoveries always build on existing ones. We will keep moving towards knowing all the answers but will never reach the ultimate destination. Like an asymptote for those who remember calculus. There will always be gaps in scientific knowledge.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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How big is the Universe?
I just read that it takes light 2.5 million years to travel from our galaxy (milky way) to the nearest galaxy (Andromeda). Thats 2.5 million years !
Yet the milky way is about 0.00000001% the size of the known Universe.
And whats outside the known Universe? Does it continue endlessly?
Are there endless parallel universes as some scientists hypothesize?
Mind boggling
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Alba wrote:Science does not claim to have all the answers. Its a process of discovery. New discoveries always build on existing ones. We will keep moving towards knowing all the answers but will never reach the ultimate destination. Like an asymptote for those who remember calculus. There will always be gaps in scientific knowledge. expect some metaphysical nonsense/gibberish from the active people on this forum. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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