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William Ruto is NOT going to be President in 2022
Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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The cause of PEV in RV can be trace back to Jomo Kenyatta but it's triggered by Kalenjin politicians to distract the kalenjin voters from asking the right questions.
While Jomo Kenyatta stole land from RV and forceful resettle people from Central in RV, Kale politicians have stolen even more land than Jomo Kenyatta did.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Rollout wrote:The cause of PEV in RV can be trace back to Jomo Kenyatta but it's triggered by Kalenjin politicians to distract the kalenjin voters from asking the right questions.
While Jomo Kenyatta stole land from RV and forceful resettle people from Central in RV, Kale politicians have stolen even more land than Jomo Kenyatta did. Well put @Rollout. This is the whole truth, which many people do not know or too naive to realize. Hizo zingine ati PEV, clashes etc ni vijisababu tu.
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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I blame nobody........... i wait patiently for time will tell who the real aggressors are  !!! Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:Alba wrote:Wendz wrote:
ODM did not loose because the election was stolen.... it lost because it was outdone the stealing exercise by the other party. If my memory serves me correctly, no one could tell who had won.... why, they stole in equal measure, only that one was outdone.... None of them were angels... I understand.
This statement is partially true. There was rigging on both sides. The election was completely flawed. Thats why I have always said that the person to blame most for PEV 2008 is Mwai Kibaki. By declaring himself president, he unleashed all kinds of emotions. Elections are a very emotional issue for Kenyans. And you should not play with emotions. Kibaki should have been a true statesman. He should have put selfish interests aside and said there will either be a recount or a rerun. That way 3000 people would not have died. Kibaki's decision to steal the election by announcing himself the winner in that late night swearing in ceremony is what kicked off PEV 2008. It was a selfish act that precipitated chaos. Also The Kibaki era created hostility and distrust between Kenyan ethnic groups back to the level they were in in the mid 1960s with the Mount Kenya Mafia taking the place of the Kiambu mafia. The one difference this time was that there were no political assassinations. The one person I blame for PEV is RH Raila Odinga He could have been a statesman from 2005 when all rallies were about 'hawa watu' but he chose not to It started with dehumanisation before the actual killings began, just like in the holocaust @lonest, put the the thief on the trial, not the victim. What caused PEV is theft. What you are advocating here is like blaming victims of terror attack for not wearing bulletproof armour or blaming someone who raised a terror alert. faulty analogy bro. Before the elections, it was clear there would be vita whichevwr way it went
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:Alba wrote:Wendz wrote:
ODM did not loose because the election was stolen.... it lost because it was outdone the stealing exercise by the other party. If my memory serves me correctly, no one could tell who had won.... why, they stole in equal measure, only that one was outdone.... None of them were angels... I understand.
This statement is partially true. There was rigging on both sides. The election was completely flawed. Thats why I have always said that the person to blame most for PEV 2008 is Mwai Kibaki. By declaring himself president, he unleashed all kinds of emotions. Elections are a very emotional issue for Kenyans. And you should not play with emotions. Kibaki should have been a true statesman. He should have put selfish interests aside and said there will either be a recount or a rerun. That way 3000 people would not have died. Kibaki's decision to steal the election by announcing himself the winner in that late night swearing in ceremony is what kicked off PEV 2008. It was a selfish act that precipitated chaos. Also The Kibaki era created hostility and distrust between Kenyan ethnic groups back to the level they were in in the mid 1960s with the Mount Kenya Mafia taking the place of the Kiambu mafia. The one difference this time was that there were no political assassinations. The one person I blame for PEV is RH Raila Odinga He could have been a statesman from 2005 when all rallies were about 'hawa watu' but he chose not to It started with dehumanisation before the actual killings began, just like in the holocaust @lonest, put the the thief on the trial, not the victim. What caused PEV is theft. What you are advocating here is like blaming victims of terror attack for not wearing bulletproof armour or blaming someone who raised a terror alert. faulty analogy bro. Before the elections, it was clear there would be vita whichevwr way it went @lonest, in your mind maybe. Or is this the case of "the guilty are afraid"?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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People willfully distorting facts! There was widespread violence in all major ODM strongholds, targeted at persons from communities perceived to be in support or sympathetic to Kibaki. Populations were forcibly moved from Nyanza, Rift and western. Same thing happened in Nairobi enclaves were ODM held sway! I agree that both side cheated in the elections - so neither had any moral ground to cry foul. The then electoral commission (as disgraced as it has been) declared a winner. We all know who it was. Prior to the exercise the umpire was known byall parties, in fact the opposition had backed the retention of the ECK chairman. If you choose to play ball, presided over by an umpire, the civilised thing to do is to respect his ruling otherwise democracy would never work. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Ngalaka wrote:People willfully distorting facts!
There was widespread violence in all major ODM strongholds, targeted at persons from communities perceived to be in support or sympathetic to Kibaki. Populations were forcibly moved from Nyanza, Rift and western. Same thing happened in Nairobi enclaves were ODM held sway!
I agree that both side cheated in the elections - so neither had any moral ground to cry foul.
The then electoral commission (as disgraced as it has been) declared a winner. We all know who it was. Prior to the exercise the umpire was known byall parties, in fact the opposition had backed the retention of the ECK chairman. If you choose to play ball, presided over by an umpire, the civilised thing to do is to respect his ruling otherwise democracy would never work. Which populations are these you are talking about? As far as I know, most of the violence committed against people from central was committed by Ruto supporters. Yet today Ruto is very popular in central and they are promising to support him in 2022. Uhuru is even fighting to have African countries removed from the ICC. The ICC is the only thing we Africans have to protect us from insane war mongering politicians yet Uhuru wants us out of it and his supporters seem to agree. There is a level of hypocrisy here that is quite mind boggling. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Imagine if two teams played in the world cup final and the game was ended with no clear winner and one team declared itself the winner. And used its influence at FIFA to have itself declared the winner. How would the other teams supporters react?
Thats what Kibaki did to Kenya in 2007. By declaring himself the winner in an election whose true winner was not clear, he unleashed raw emotions of people.
Again I say, elections are a very emotive issue. This is especially true in Kenya where campaigns start two years early and reach fever pitch on election day.
Therefore Kibaki is 90% to blame. ICC evidence showed Uhuru, Ruto, Sang etc as culpable. But Kibaki's actions on that fateful day are the real reason PEV happened. No amount of rewriting history will change that. I wonder if that man can sleep at night.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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Ngalaka wrote:People willfully distorting facts!
There was widespread violence in all major ODM strongholds, targeted at persons from communities perceived to be in support or sympathetic to Kibaki. Populations were forcibly moved from Nyanza, Rift and western. Same thing happened in Nairobi enclaves were ODM held sway!
I agree that both side cheated in the elections - so neither had any moral ground to cry foul.
The then electoral commission (as disgraced as it has been) declared a winner. We all know who it was. Prior to the exercise the umpire was known byall parties, in fact the opposition had backed the retention of the ECK chairman. If you choose to play ball, presided over by an umpire, the civilised thing to do is to respect his ruling otherwise democracy would never work. I think you're being dishonest by not acknowledging the fact that even PNU supporters evicted ODM supporters,this happened in Parts of RV too. In Nyanza and Eldoret security forces who were under PNU command killed alot of people so let's be honest both sides committed what we can call crime against humanity.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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Rollout wrote:Ngalaka wrote:People willfully distorting facts!
There was widespread violence in all major ODM strongholds, targeted at persons from communities perceived to be in support or sympathetic to Kibaki. Populations were forcibly moved from Nyanza, Rift and western. Same thing happened in Nairobi enclaves were ODM held sway!
I agree that both side cheated in the elections - so neither had any moral ground to cry foul.
The then electoral commission (as disgraced as it has been) declared a winner. We all know who it was. Prior to the exercise the umpire was known byall parties, in fact the opposition had backed the retention of the ECK chairman. If you choose to play ball, presided over by an umpire, the civilised thing to do is to respect his ruling otherwise democracy would never work. I think you're being dishonest by not acknowledging the fact that even PNU supporters evicted ODM supporters,this happened in Parts of RV too. In Nyanza and Eldoret security forces who were under PNU command killed alot of people so let's be honest both sides committed what we can call crime against humanity. Violence and evictions in RV started way before the elections. Also happened in 92 and 97. It's common knowledge that Kalenjin warriors were trained and paid to burn houses and kill Kyuks and Kisiis. Pokot warriors were used as mercenaries. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:Alba wrote:Wendz wrote:
ODM did not loose because the election was stolen.... it lost because it was outdone the stealing exercise by the other party. If my memory serves me correctly, no one could tell who had won.... why, they stole in equal measure, only that one was outdone.... None of them were angels... I understand.
This statement is partially true. There was rigging on both sides. The election was completely flawed. Thats why I have always said that the person to blame most for PEV 2008 is Mwai Kibaki. By declaring himself president, he unleashed all kinds of emotions. Elections are a very emotional issue for Kenyans. And you should not play with emotions. Kibaki should have been a true statesman. He should have put selfish interests aside and said there will either be a recount or a rerun. That way 3000 people would not have died. Kibaki's decision to steal the election by announcing himself the winner in that late night swearing in ceremony is what kicked off PEV 2008. It was a selfish act that precipitated chaos. Also The Kibaki era created hostility and distrust between Kenyan ethnic groups back to the level they were in in the mid 1960s with the Mount Kenya Mafia taking the place of the Kiambu mafia. The one difference this time was that there were no political assassinations. The one person I blame for PEV is RH Raila Odinga He could have been a statesman from 2005 when all rallies were about 'hawa watu' but he chose not to It started with dehumanisation before the actual killings began, just like in the holocaust @lonest, put the the thief on the trial, not the victim. What caused PEV is theft. What you are advocating here is like blaming victims of terror attack for not wearing bulletproof armour or blaming someone who raised a terror alert. faulty analogy bro. Before the elections, it was clear there would be vita whichevwr way it went @lonest, in your mind maybe. Or is this the case of "the guilty are afraid"? just a little googling would help. Those in Kenya and with their eyes and ears open had a hint of whatwas about to happen I know people who told me they'd been warned even before elections in Eldoret!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Rollout wrote:Ngalaka wrote:People willfully distorting facts!
There was widespread violence in all major ODM strongholds, targeted at persons from communities perceived to be in support or sympathetic to Kibaki. Populations were forcibly moved from Nyanza, Rift and western. Same thing happened in Nairobi enclaves were ODM held sway!
I agree that both side cheated in the elections - so neither had any moral ground to cry foul.
The then electoral commission (as disgraced as it has been) declared a winner. We all know who it was. Prior to the exercise the umpire was known byall parties, in fact the opposition had backed the retention of the ECK chairman. If you choose to play ball, presided over by an umpire, the civilised thing to do is to respect his ruling otherwise democracy would never work. I think you're being dishonest by not acknowledging the fact that even PNU supporters evicted ODM supporters,this happened in Parts of RV too. In Nyanza and Eldoret security forces who were under PNU command killed alot of people so let's be honest both sides committed what we can call crime against humanity. I never denied that PNU supporters hit back - in a retaliatory measure to counter the violence wrought on them for almost a Month as sitting Ducks. Obviously the law, in theory sees anyone retaliating as complicit in criminal enterprise. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Alba wrote:Ngalaka wrote:People willfully distorting facts!
There was widespread violence in all major ODM strongholds, targeted at persons from communities perceived to be in support or sympathetic to Kibaki. Populations were forcibly moved from Nyanza, Rift and western. Same thing happened in Nairobi enclaves were ODM held sway!
I agree that both side cheated in the elections - so neither had any moral ground to cry foul.
The then electoral commission (as disgraced as it has been) declared a winner. We all know who it was. Prior to the exercise the umpire was known byall parties, in fact the opposition had backed the retention of the ECK chairman. If you choose to play ball, presided over by an umpire, the civilised thing to do is to respect his ruling otherwise democracy would never work. Which populations are these you are talking about? As far as I know, most of the violence committed against people from central was committed by Ruto supporters. Yet today Ruto is very popular in central and they are promising to support him in 2022. Uhuru is even fighting to have African countries removed from the ICC. The ICC is the only thing we Africans have to protect us from insane war mongering politicians yet Uhuru wants us out of it and his supporters seem to agree. There is a level of hypocrisy here that is quite mind boggling. The problem with us is that we never see/acknowledge any wrong committed by the political side that we support. Very Sad. Nyanza and most other ODM dominated places including pockets within Nairobi were no go zones for persons perceived not to belong. Such persons were FORCIBLY kicked out, other peoples houses taken over by organised gangs etc etc. After the then ODM-K joined Kibaki govt, relatives staying in Mathare north had to flee ducking machettes and bludgeons. Baba ndogo was no better. My point here is not to support PNU or Jubilee, in fact I never voted for any of the two, nor do I run for them even today. But the truth must be told in a factual manner and ruffians should be called out while warding off any attempts to whitewash their hooliganism. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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@Ngalaka
You are right in that there was violence on both sides. There were roving gangs of machette wielding goons from both ODM and PNU all over Nairobi. I know because I met gangs from both sides and had to run for dear life. I also know that even in Kakamega, Kisumu, Busia etc businesses owned by PNU supporters were set ablaze. Same thing in Nyanza. You are also right in that many PNU supporters lost their homes and their businesses and were forced to leave just as many ODM supporters had to leave Naivasha and elsewhere. Neither side is innocent.
However as far as I know, most of the people who died in Nyanza were actually ODM supporters killed by police. Reports suggest that over 50 killed in Kisumu. All this shooting was done on the orders of the government.
Also as far as I know the ODM leaders who evidence (witness testimony) suggests organized violence is Ruto and Sang. Ruto is now a favourite son of Jubilee coalition. I am not aware of any other ODM leader who is known to have organized violence in 2008. If there is, I hope the ICC comes after them soon. I have zero tolerance for organized violence.
I think the important issue is to determine what the root cause of all this pent up emotion is. Once again I maintain that had Kibaki acted like a true statesman and acknowledged that there was no clear cut winner, none of this craziness would have happened.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Alba wrote:@Ngalaka
You are right in that there was violence on both sides. There were roving gangs of machette wielding goons from both ODM and PNU all over Nairobi. I know because I met gangs from both sides and had to run for dear life. I also know that even in Kakamega, Kisumu, Busia etc businesses owned by PNU supporters were set ablaze. Same thing in Nyanza. You are also right in that many PNU supporters lost their homes and their businesses and were forced to leave just as many ODM supporters had to leave Naivasha and elsewhere. Neither side is innocent.
However as far as I know, most of the people who died in Nyanza were actually ODM supporters killed by police. Reports suggest that over 50 killed in Kisumu. All this shooting was done on the orders of the government.
Also as far as I know the ODM leaders who evidence (witness testimony) suggests organized violence is Ruto and Sang. Ruto is now a favourite son of Jubilee coalition. I am not aware of any other ODM leader who is known to have organized violence in 2008. If there is, I hope the ICC comes after them soon. I have zero tolerance for organized violence.
I think the important issue is to determine what the root cause of all this pent up emotion is. Once again I maintain that had Kibaki acted like a true statesman and acknowledged that there was no clear cut winner, none of this craziness would have happened. At least we are now close to concurrence.  Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/15/2015 Posts: 817
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True or False
WILLIAM RUTO'S POLITICAL ADULTRY.
His political life started in KANU. Ditched KANU FOR ODM. Then went to UDM before forming URP. Since his appetite for cash keeps sharpening, he abandoned his own URP to join JAP two months ago. Right now, he is in JP.
A SIMPLIFIED RUTO'S FOOD CHAIN.
KANU -ODM-UDM-URP-JAP-JP-?
NB :NO ARROW TO POINT AT THE EATER SINCE EVERYTHING DEPEND ON CIRCUMCISION
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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I may not be as tall as a girafee man toro but when I look further in 2022, I see a MaDvd/Gidi ticket! those two will form a coalition and bring on board Mutua, Omar Hassan, Wamalwa and some powerful Kiuk. Then UK ataseme Tosha! I could be wrong. i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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harrydre wrote:I may not be as tall as a girafee man toro but when I look further in 2022, I see a MaDvd/Gidi ticket!
those two will form a coalition and bring on board Mutua, Omar Hassan, Wamalwa and some powerful Kiuk.
Then UK ataseme Tosha!
I could be wrong.
You are right and you being a Kikuyu, nothing could be further from the truth. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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We're in 2016, why would anyone want to venture in 'time travel'and become pork in 2022? Just do your job without bragging about the future
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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Impunity wrote:harrydre wrote:I may not be as tall as a girafee man toro but when I look further in 2022, I see a MaDvd/Gidi ticket!
those two will form a coalition and bring on board Mutua, Omar Hassan, Wamalwa and some powerful Kiuk.
Then UK ataseme Tosha!
I could be wrong.
You are right and you being a Kikuyu, nothing could be further from the truth. If Ruto is not voted for by JP yote in 2022, wacha nicheke. Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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