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IRB 7s 2016 series with Ayimba
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Ayimba boys in semis...Congrats to the veteran luo coach. Beaten use 26-10. Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 398 Location: Where everyone knows you
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Great display in SA. Narrowly beaten in both Semi Final & 3rd / 4th games - by 2 points. Good work Kenya. NOW keep it up.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Good work by the team... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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maka wrote:Good work by the team...
Good start indeed. Tough one against New Zealand early tomorrow
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Consistency is a problem with this team
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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We are doing quite well I must say. Currently standing 8th after 3 legs, every team ahead of us is expected to be as they are mostly rugby powerhouses with many times more cash, talent and training facilities. (Yes, and that includes the US) "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:We are doing quite well I must say.
Currently standing 8th after 3 legs, every team ahead of us is expected to be as they are mostly rugby powerhouses with many times more cash, talent and training facilities.
(Yes, and that includes the US) That depends on what you mean by " where we should be". In 2013 under Mike Friday, Kenya finished 5th in the standings ahead of Argentina, Australia, England, Wales and the so called mighty USA. If Kenya continued on that trajectory, they would have won a tournament by now. And NO. None of these countries have more raw talent than Kenya except possibly Fiji. I am glad Kenya are not as poor as they were in 2015. But I would not say they are doing quite well. In the 2013 Wellingtons, Kenya beat Argie, South Africa and NZ and reached the final.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Alba wrote:
That depends on what you mean by "where we should be".
In 2013 under Mike Friday, Kenya finished 5th in the standings ahead of Argentina, Australia, England, Wales and the so called mighty USA. If Kenya continued on that trajectory, they would have won a tournament by now.
And NO. None of these countries have more raw talent than Kenya except possibly Fiji.
I am glad Kenya are not as poor as they were in 2015. But I would not say they are doing quite well. In the 2013 Wellingtons, Kenya beat Argie, South Africa and NZ and reached the final.
Hapo umenena. The Kenya team form this season is deceptive because the big guns are eyeing the Olympics. IMO anything short of a cup win this season should be called a failure.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Let me tell you - I said it before... you must rebuild with a target! Kenya 7s is falling prey to short term wins and I will be surprised if we cross position 5 again. We keep on being tempted to play our old guards in order to be seen as 'good enough'. If I was the coach I would just ensure we have our head above water and build up. Occasionally throwing in the big guns to salvage some 1/4s points but really with a game plan to train our younger players in the big leagues - Australia has done it and now the team has started firing all cylinders and I think they are targeting RIO. But anyway... since we seem to be happy with doing good... instead of winning something - tuendelee vivyo hivyo! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Alba wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:We are doing quite well I must say.
Currently standing 8th after 3 legs, every team ahead of us is expected to be as they are mostly rugby powerhouses with many times more cash, talent and training facilities.
(Yes, and that includes the US) That depends on what you mean by " where we should be". In 2013 under Mike Friday, Kenya finished 5th in the standings ahead of Argentina, Australia, England, Wales and the so called mighty USA. If Kenya continued on that trajectory, they would have won a tournament by now. And NO. None of these countries have more raw talent than Kenya except possibly Fiji. I am glad Kenya are not as poor as they were in 2015. But I would not say they are doing quite well. In the 2013 Wellingtons, Kenya beat Argie, South Africa and NZ and reached the final. @Alba, other than Kenyans being black, there is no evidence to suggest that we have better talent than the other teams you mentioned. The same applies to Fiji. Rugby is an IQ game, not a raw power, pace game like people think. The many reference to Kenya team as talented in my opinion an assumption by the commentators that just because we are Kenyans, we have not managed to realise the full potential of the players, which is basically a polite insult. Our current position shows progress, but other countries have also made quite some progress, Look at where SA, Fiji, USA are now compared to 2013. I am not averse to improving even further but lets also accept that competition is there. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Alba, other than Kenyans being black, there is no evidence to suggest that we have better talent than the other teams you mentioned. The same applies to Fiji. Rugby is an IQ game, not a raw power, pace game like people think.
The many reference to Kenya team as talented in my opinion an assumption by the commentators that just because we are Kenyans, we have not managed to realise the full potential of the players, which is basically a polite insult.
Our current position shows progress, but other countries have also made quite some progress, Look at where SA, Fiji, USA are now compared to 2013. I am not averse to improving even further but lets also accept that competition is there.
What criteria are you using to judge a full strength Kenya team losing out to teams playing second string and experimental lineups?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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chemirocha wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Alba, other than Kenyans being black, there is no evidence to suggest that we have better talent than the other teams you mentioned. The same applies to Fiji. Rugby is an IQ game, not a raw power, pace game like people think.
The many reference to Kenya team as talented in my opinion an assumption by the commentators that just because we are Kenyans, we have not managed to realise the full potential of the players, which is basically a polite insult.
Our current position shows progress, but other countries have also made quite some progress, Look at where SA, Fiji, USA are now compared to 2013. I am not averse to improving even further but lets also accept that competition is there.
What criteria are you using to judge a full strength Kenya team losing out to teams playing second string and experimental lineups? I am not getting you, which teams are playing with experimental lineups or are not full strength. From where I sit, every teams seems to be on their A game "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:chemirocha wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Alba, other than Kenyans being black, there is no evidence to suggest that we have better talent than the other teams you mentioned. The same applies to Fiji. Rugby is an IQ game, not a raw power, pace game like people think.
The many reference to Kenya team as talented in my opinion an assumption by the commentators that just because we are Kenyans, we have not managed to realise the full potential of the players, which is basically a polite insult.
Our current position shows progress, but other countries have also made quite some progress, Look at where SA, Fiji, USA are now compared to 2013. I am not averse to improving even further but lets also accept that competition is there.
What criteria are you using to judge a full strength Kenya team losing out to teams playing second string and experimental lineups? I am not getting you, which teams are playing with experimental lineups or are not full strength. From where I sit, every teams seems to be on their A game I too wonder the teams he is referring to!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:chemirocha wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Alba, other than Kenyans being black, there is no evidence to suggest that we have better talent than the other teams you mentioned. The same applies to Fiji. Rugby is an IQ game, not a raw power, pace game like people think.
The many reference to Kenya team as talented in my opinion an assumption by the commentators that just because we are Kenyans, we have not managed to realise the full potential of the players, which is basically a polite insult.
Our current position shows progress, but other countries have also made quite some progress, Look at where SA, Fiji, USA are now compared to 2013. I am not averse to improving even further but lets also accept that competition is there.
What criteria are you using to judge a full strength Kenya team losing out to teams playing second string and experimental lineups? I am not getting you, which teams are playing with experimental lineups or are not full strength. From where I sit, every teams seems to be on their A game South Africa were missing six guys to injury, England, Australia had multiple new faces. Oh and the team that actually won the Cup were missing seven. What tournament were you watching?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Alba, other than Kenyans being black, there is no evidence to suggest that we have better talent than the other teams you mentioned. The same applies to Fiji. Rugby is an IQ game, not a raw power, pace game like people think.
The many reference to Kenya team as talented in my opinion an assumption by the commentators that just because we are Kenyans, we have not managed to realise the full potential of the players, which is basically a polite insult.
Our current position shows progress, but other countries have also made quite some progress, Look at where SA, Fiji, USA are now compared to 2013. I am not averse to improving even further but lets also accept that competition is there.
If you read my post closely you will realize that I did not say Kenya has more talent than anyone. It is you who said that these countries have more talent than Kenya. This is what you said: they are mostly rugby powerhouses with many times more cash, talent I was offering a rebuttal to the idea that these countries have more talent than Kenya. In terms of raw talent I believe the Pacific islands are the only countries that are genetically more adapted to contact sports. These are countries with very low populations yet they produce a disproportionate number of players on contact sports. For example, in American football, there are 30 players from American Samoa which only has a population of 65,000. I am not sure why but I have theories. And the commentators are right when they say Kenya has not managed its talent well. Look at the case of Mike Friday. We had an excellent coach who was taking Kenya further than it ever had. Then silly politics intervened and Friday left as did Mwangi Muthee. Now Friday is working his magic for another team and Kenya has regressed. And Kenya has so far done a shoddy job of managing talent. If you find out how the colonial educators developed rugby talent at Lenana and Nairobi school you will see that it is much better than how rugby talent is being developed in Kenyan schools now 40 years later. None other than Edward Rombo said as much in a TV interview a few years back. Suffice to say those rugby structures fell apart when the Muzungu left. And it explains why rugby programs that are run by whites like Zimbabwe and Namibia have historically done better than those run by blacks. Its a bitter pill to swallow. You may call it a polite insult but its true. This is especially true at 15 a side rugby but to a lesser extent sevens which requires fewer technical skills. Kenya has improved at sevens but with the right structures it can go even further. Kenya has not done a decent job of developing technical skills. It is true however that Kenya's technical skills have improved. If you look at videos of Kenya rugby from around 2004, you will be shocked at how poor Kenya's technical skills were back then. But we still have a way to go. SA and Fiji have not made progress as you claim. SA have always been good and they are still good. Fiji also has always been good but they were even more dominant in the 1980s and 1990s.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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chemirocha wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:chemirocha wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Alba, other than Kenyans being black, there is no evidence to suggest that we have better talent than the other teams you mentioned. The same applies to Fiji. Rugby is an IQ game, not a raw power, pace game like people think.
The many reference to Kenya team as talented in my opinion an assumption by the commentators that just because we are Kenyans, we have not managed to realise the full potential of the players, which is basically a polite insult.
Our current position shows progress, but other countries have also made quite some progress, Look at where SA, Fiji, USA are now compared to 2013. I am not averse to improving even further but lets also accept that competition is there.
What criteria are you using to judge a full strength Kenya team losing out to teams playing second string and experimental lineups? I am not getting you, which teams are playing with experimental lineups or are not full strength. From where I sit, every teams seems to be on their A game South Africa were missing six guys to injury, England, Australia had multiple new faces. Oh and the team that actually won the Cup were missing seven. What tournament were you watching? Deep benches do not mean they are experimental! When someone is replaced and the new guy plays at par with the replaced guy - that is the depth of a team talking. We are recycling people man!! Hoping that our 'experience' will cut it! I agree there is a place for experience especially one that comes with being calm under pressure but we cannot throw the same old guard at the problem and hope they will one day crack it. My prescription is ... PICK A TOURNAMENT and build up towards it.... keep your head just above water and work your side. What we are doing now will not get us better than a quarter final's position. Semis will always be fluky (mostly due to the other teams mistakes). Tell me.... Do you think we can beat these big 3 Fiji, SA, NZ two matches in a row? Even France is firing on all cylinders these days. England will always beat us when we meet and they do it regardless of how badly they have been playing. We are actually more at par with Wales... amini tusiamini. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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masukuma wrote: Deep benches do not mean they are experimental! When someone is replaced and the new guy plays at par with the replaced guy - that is the depth of a team talking. We are recycling people man!! Hoping that our 'experience' will cut it! I agree there is a place for experience especially one that comes with being calm under pressure but we cannot throw the same old guard at the problem and hope they will one day crack it. My prescription is ... PICK A TOURNAMENT and build up towards it.... keep your head just above water and work your side. What we are doing now will not get us better than a quarter final's position. Semis will always be fluky (mostly due to the other teams mistakes). Tell me.... Do you think we can beat these big 3 Fiji, SA, NZ two matches in a row? Even France is firing on all cylinders these days. England will always beat us when we meet and they do it regardless of how badly they have been playing. We are actually more at par with Wales... amini tusiamini.
Olympics are coming up and every team is currently preparing for that. The challenge should be how does Kenya bridge the gap with the truly elite teams? If we have any ambition then at a minimum we should be aiming for a medal at Rio.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2009 Posts: 2,375
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Brilliant comeback against the US at the Sydney 7s. 21-0 @ half time 21-24 FT. It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt... -Mark Twain
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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