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Kenyatta family to build a City in Ruiri
Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Swenani wrote:Njung'e wrote:Kenyans occupy less than a third of their beautiful country. Here we are complaining about an individual or a family for owning land yet we stopped buying land as we are into plots. 50 years on, as someone said here earlier, our great grand children will be here cursing. To to own a plot in Marsabit, Mandera, Moyale or even Mogotio will be a dream.  No one is disputing that but you have to acquire the land procedurally, you cannot use your powers to "steal" land And that is the proof we are looking for! Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Swenani wrote:[quote=Njung'e]
No one is disputing that but you have to acquire the land procedurally, you cannot use your powers to "steal" land That fact that the Kenyatta family has huge pieces does not mean they acquired the same devoid of procedure. But again, i realize much of this pang'ang'a is peddled without facts moreso by those who missed the good train. I also note that there are people in this country who have much bigger chunks, yet we really here about . If unsure, traverse Laikipia and ask here and there. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,822 Location: Nakuru
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Swenani wrote:Ngalaka wrote:PeterReborn wrote:Swenani wrote:Ngalaka wrote:@ Ndugu Swenani
I have also noted that on this subject, you seek to fault Mzee Kenyatta on account of abuse of office - in allocating himself free land as opposed to dispossessing any private land owner of their land.
At least there we have covered some milestone as this has been the years old selling point for demagogues.
My argument is based on those trying to justify that the allocation was okay since no one was disposed off the title and that there were no people living around that area which is a false argument because Who spoke of Titles!!! - Question is If there were people pushed out of land to pave way for his acquisition of it. 1. Kenyans started having title deeds post independence and up to date most Kenyans do not have title deeds, the few Kenyans who own title deeds are the ones mainly found in Nairobi, central and rift valley. There is no dispute here2.Who said people were not living in Ruiru,during colonization,people were rounded off and taken to work in farms which means that people left their homesteads which were later destroyed. Provide evidence, no gut feeling issues here!3.Land was owned by a community not by individuals-there were no title deeds.If you go to Kiunga a local is a allowed to farm anywhere since the land belongs to the community and people do not have title deeds and neither does the community have a title deed because the government holds that land for them in trust,It will be an impropriety for someone(especially for a president) to allocate himself land in Kiunga knowing very well that the locals have no title deeds and then ask people to provide credible grounds for impropriety proving that the president has disposed off a private land owner Yes it would be an impropriety, so was it the case! I wish to know from facts, not relying on folktalesKenyatta's acquisition of land in Ruiru, Coast and rift valley was unprocedural thus an impropriety These are mere suppositions  Dont be escapist brother, we need to discuss if Jomo abused his powers relating to his acquisition of land. and or if he disposed people of their privately held land (pushing people out) -Read my previous post,you can grab land without disposing off a private land owner e.g Mau forest ,karura forest etcAside from Jomo acquiring land, the argument that since land is owned by communally, one (not necessarily Jomo) shouldn't acquire it, is defeatist- Where have I said that communally owned land cannot be acquired? There is a process on how communally owned land is shared-Visit loitoktok to learn how it was done in the ranchesYour forebearers and or their neighbours probably probably got themselves land for private use - in varying sizes depending on their shrewdness. -I will shrewdness means mischievous meaning it was not procedural @Ngalaka, Why do you provide evidence that there were no people living in Ruiri before colonization? Donot use gut feeling  Kenyatta abused his power by allocating himself over 50% of taita taveta and over 800 acres of land in Juja to his family at the expenses of the community members. How many landless people are in Kiambu? Taita taveta yet they belong to the community which was inhabiting that part of the country before colonization came in. Were these people forefathers landless before colonization how did they end up landless? we have been told up there that people were buying 1.25 acres of land at Kshs 1,000 in 1968 yet mzee got a bargain from the government he was head of at only kshs 7 meaning at close to 6K he paid, he was only entitledto less than 10 acres but ended up get 509 acres. If you have time in your hands, you can visit THE and go to Julius Nyerere library and look at this book. It will give you a blow to blow settlement patterns of these people Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Swenani wrote:Ngalaka wrote:PeterReborn wrote:Swenani wrote:Ngalaka wrote:@ Ndugu Swenani
I have also noted that on this subject, you seek to fault Mzee Kenyatta on account of abuse of office - in allocating himself free land as opposed to dispossessing any private land owner of their land.
At least there we have covered some milestone as this has been the years old selling point for demagogues.
My argument is based on those trying to justify that the allocation was okay since no one was disposed off the title and that there were no people living around that area which is a false argument because Who spoke of Titles!!! - Question is If there were people pushed out of land to pave way for his acquisition of it. 1. Kenyans started having title deeds post independence and up to date most Kenyans do not have title deeds, the few Kenyans who own title deeds are the ones mainly found in Nairobi, central and rift valley. There is no dispute here2.Who said people were not living in Ruiru,during colonization,people were rounded off and taken to work in farms which means that people left their homesteads which were later destroyed. Provide evidence, no gut feeling issues here!3.Land was owned by a community not by individuals-there were no title deeds.If you go to Kiunga a local is a allowed to farm anywhere since the land belongs to the community and people do not have title deeds and neither does the community have a title deed because the government holds that land for them in trust,It will be an impropriety for someone(especially for a president) to allocate himself land in Kiunga knowing very well that the locals have no title deeds and then ask people to provide credible grounds for impropriety proving that the president has disposed off a private land owner Yes it would be an impropriety, so was it the case! I wish to know from facts, not relying on folktalesKenyatta's acquisition of land in Ruiru, Coast and rift valley was unprocedural thus an impropriety These are mere suppositions Dont be escapist brother, we need to discuss if Jomo abused his powers relating to his acquisition of land. and or if he disposed people of their privately held land (pushing people out) -Read my previous post,you can grab land without disposing off a private land owner e.g Mau forest ,karura forest etcAside from Jomo acquiring land, the argument that since land is owned by communally, one (not necessarily Jomo) shouldn't acquire it, is defeatist- Where have I said that communally owned land cannot be acquired? There is a process on how communally owned land is shared-Visit loitoktok to learn how it was done in the ranchesYour forebearers and or their neighbours probably probably got themselves land for private use - in varying sizes depending on their shrewdness. -I will shrewdness means mischievous meaning it was not procedural @Ngalaka, Why do you provide evidence that there were no people living in Ruiri before colonization? Donot use gut feeling Kenyatta abused his power by allocating himself over 50% of taita taveta and over 800 acres of land in Juja to his family at the expenses of the community members. How many landless people are in Kiambu? Taita taveta yet they belong to the community which was inhabiting that part of the country before colonization came in. Were these people forefathers landless before colonization how did they end up landless? we have been told up there that people were buying 1.25 acres of land at Kshs 1,000 in 1968 yet mzee got a bargain from the government he was head of at only kshs 7 meaning at close to 6K he paid, he was only entitledto less than 10 acres but ended up get 509 acres.  Tukigonga wits end tunakubali,..... yaishe! I mean my position is that I do not know that Jomo used unprocedural means to acquire land, but I am ready to acknowledge any CREDIBLE info so asserting. On the other hand you @ Swenani, are saying that Jomo did, indeed "steal" land. Now even a primary school kid knows that the onus is on the one accusing to prove their claims! My position remains, in the absence of any credible evidence, the the presumption of innocence is the next logical thing. Relying on what we heard some fellow allege without any meaningful grounds is to.... no, not good enough! Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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I think everyone including those defending Jomo know that he acquired the land that has made his family rich unprocedurally. The sheer size of the holdings are enough to demonstrate that there is no way Jomo could have accumulated enough cash to buy the land even in his 14 year rule. The value then is irrelevant. Sh.1,000 is small now but then I am sure it was a small fortune. Every politician following this has always tried to get a piece of Kenya for free. Jomo is not here to answer for himself, what he has left behind is just the bitter taste of betrayal from a people who now realise they were played. I bet in hindsight, he would have played this differently. Its important to reflect on the sheer size of Kenya, we don't need to crowd around Nairobi or lament about stolen land. People are making it big all over the country doing land deals or taking other roads to success avenues. But we also must stick to the truth about what happened. It should never happen again or it should be stopped from happening Moving on..... If the family develops this property, what will be the effect in Nairobi's real estate, how much can 11K acres affect supply of housing. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Ngalaka wrote:Swenani wrote:Ngalaka wrote:PeterReborn wrote:Swenani wrote:Ngalaka wrote:@ Ndugu Swenani
I have also noted that on this subject, you seek to fault Mzee Kenyatta on account of abuse of office - in allocating himself free land as opposed to dispossessing any private land owner of their land.
At least there we have covered some milestone as this has been the years old selling point for demagogues.
My argument is based on those trying to justify that the allocation was okay since no one was disposed off the title and that there were no people living around that area which is a false argument because Who spoke of Titles!!! - Question is If there were people pushed out of land to pave way for his acquisition of it. 1. Kenyans started having title deeds post independence and up to date most Kenyans do not have title deeds, the few Kenyans who own title deeds are the ones mainly found in Nairobi, central and rift valley. There is no dispute here2.Who said people were not living in Ruiru,during colonization,people were rounded off and taken to work in farms which means that people left their homesteads which were later destroyed. Provide evidence, no gut feeling issues here!3.Land was owned by a community not by individuals-there were no title deeds.If you go to Kiunga a local is a allowed to farm anywhere since the land belongs to the community and people do not have title deeds and neither does the community have a title deed because the government holds that land for them in trust,It will be an impropriety for someone(especially for a president) to allocate himself land in Kiunga knowing very well that the locals have no title deeds and then ask people to provide credible grounds for impropriety proving that the president has disposed off a private land owner Yes it would be an impropriety, so was it the case! I wish to know from facts, not relying on folktalesKenyatta's acquisition of land in Ruiru, Coast and rift valley was unprocedural thus an impropriety These are mere suppositions Dont be escapist brother, we need to discuss if Jomo abused his powers relating to his acquisition of land. and or if he disposed people of their privately held land (pushing people out) -Read my previous post,you can grab land without disposing off a private land owner e.g Mau forest ,karura forest etcAside from Jomo acquiring land, the argument that since land is owned by communally, one (not necessarily Jomo) shouldn't acquire it, is defeatist- Where have I said that communally owned land cannot be acquired? There is a process on how communally owned land is shared-Visit loitoktok to learn how it was done in the ranchesYour forebearers and or their neighbours probably probably got themselves land for private use - in varying sizes depending on their shrewdness. -I will shrewdness means mischievous meaning it was not procedural @Ngalaka, Why do you provide evidence that there were no people living in Ruiri before colonization? Donot use gut feeling Kenyatta abused his power by allocating himself over 50% of taita taveta and over 800 acres of land in Juja to his family at the expenses of the community members. How many landless people are in Kiambu? Taita taveta yet they belong to the community which was inhabiting that part of the country before colonization came in. Were these people forefathers landless before colonization how did they end up landless? we have been told up there that people were buying 1.25 acres of land at Kshs 1,000 in 1968 yet mzee got a bargain from the government he was head of at only kshs 7 meaning at close to 6K he paid, he was only entitledto less than 10 acres but ended up get 509 acres. Tukigonga wits end tunakubali,..... yaishe! I mean my position is that I do not know that Jomo used unprocedural means to acquire land, but I am ready to acknowledge any CREDIBLE info so asserting. On the other hand you @ Swenani, are saying that Jomo did, indeed "steal" land. Now even a primary school kid knows that the onus is on the one accusing to prove their claims! My position remains, in the absence of any credible evidence, the the presumption of innocence is the next logical thing. Relying on what we heard some fellow allege without any meaningful grounds is to.... no, not good enough! I'm relying from the few available public excerpts from Ndungu report which clearly identified that both president Kenyatta and president Moi misused their powers in allocating themselves land for 1. Urban, State & Ministries’ Land 2.Settlement Schemes & Trust Lands 3.Forestlands, National Parks, Game Reserves, Wetlands, Riparian Reserves & Protected Areas All the land previously occupied by whitesettles including Ruiru land owned by kenyattas family was either 1.Bought off by individuals from the whitesetlers either individually or through cooperative societies 2. The govt of Kenya through loans bought off/Compensated the settlers using public money thus making it public land which was to be distributed to individuals through settlement schemes If you do not see anything wrong with how that land was allocated you are the main problem with Kenya and I beg to leave/give up/accept defeat If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@swenani, you're now gettin it right. It's about HOW mzee acquired it not about whether it was close to CBD or future potential value. Will check Ndung'u Report
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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We might finally witness a drop in land prices in and around Nairoberry! i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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It was the life then. Get used to it. If you are annoyed. Vote. Or like seriously...don't vote. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,885
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:I think everyone including those defending Jomo know that he acquired the land that has made his family rich unprocedurally. The sheer size of the holdings are enough to demonstrate that there is no way Jomo could have accumulated enough cash to buy the land even in his 14 year rule. The value then is irrelevant. Sh.1,000 is small now but then I am sure it was a small fortune. Every politician following this has always tried to get a piece of Kenya for free. Jomo is not here to answer for himself, what he has left behind is just the bitter taste of betrayal from a people who now realise they were played. I bet in hindsight, he would have played this differently.
Its important to reflect on the sheer size of Kenya, we don't need to crowd around Nairobi or lament about stolen land. People are making it big all over the country doing land deals or taking other roads to success avenues. But we also must stick to the truth about what happened. It should never happen again or it should be stopped from happening
Moving on..... If the family develops this property, what will be the effect in Nairobi's real estate, how much can 11K acres affect supply of housing.
concur. nothing useful to add.
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