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Kenyatta family to build a City in Ruiri
Ngalaka
#61 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 9:04:23 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
In the 60’s Kenya’s population was in the region of 10 million or thereabouts. Kenya's land mass was the same as it is today, now against a population of about 45 million.

It follows therefore that anybody who wanted to own land went ahead and owned it, in sizes that they thought was sufficient for their needs. Of course those who wanted to acquire land relinquished by the settlers had to buy it off. Other Land was readily available in Kenya, and most of it unclaimed - read free for occupation, all one needed to do was to settle there and begin cultivating it.

I take the view that Kenyatta committed no wrong by acquiring land – as no one has credibly demonstrated that he disposed them of their land through unlawful means.

The rest is politics – the so called sound bites.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Lolest!
#62 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 9:21:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Ngalaka wrote:
In the 60’s Kenya’s population was in the region of 10 million or thereabouts. Kenya's land mass was the same as it is today, now against a population of about 45 million.

It follows therefore that anybody who wanted to own went ahead and owned it, in sizes that they thought was sufficient for their needs. Of course those who wanted to acquire land relinquished by the settlers had to buy it off. Land was readily available in Kenya, and most of it unclaimed - read free for occupation, all one needed to do was to settle there and begin cultivating it.

I take the view that Kenyatta committed no wrong by acquiring land – as no one has credibly demonstrated that he disposed them of their land through unlawful means.

The rest is politics – the so called sound bites.

Happy 2016 Ngalaka!

I agree. The HOW land was acquired should be the issue.

The Nyandarua case from Ndegwa's biography is an issue though.
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Ngalaka
#63 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 10:00:11 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Lolest! wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
In the 60’s Kenya’s population was in the region of 10 million or thereabouts. Kenya's land mass was the same as it is today, now against a population of about 45 million.

It follows therefore that anybody who wanted to own went ahead and owned it, in sizes that they thought was sufficient for their needs. Of course those who wanted to acquire land relinquished by the settlers had to buy it off. Land was readily available in Kenya, and most of it unclaimed - read free for occupation, all one needed to do was to settle there and begin cultivating it.

I take the view that Kenyatta committed no wrong by acquiring land – as no one has credibly demonstrated that he disposed them of their land through unlawful means.

The rest is politics – the so called sound bites.

Happy 2016 Ngalaka!

I agree. The HOW land was acquired should be the issue.

The Nyandarua case from Ndegwa's biography is an issue though.


Mwaka mpya kwako pia.

I have to be honest, I have not read Ndegwa's biography.
We have to make it clear here that no one man is Angelic in all his dealings. What we should be more interested in is the balance of his deeds on a subject like this one.

Therefore, if the Ndegwa biography's assertion is credible, then justice ought to be done.
Hakuna cha generalisations na demagoguery

Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
majimaji
#64 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 10:37:01 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162

That land was empty, even the surrounding Githunguri farm as recently as 2010. It is the Eastern bypass that has opened up the area and the subsequent sniggering by the chattering class. See Juja farm, the activity there is due to the speculated greater eastern bypass, so the wise with a few shillings to spare will buy and wait.
Swenani
#65 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 11:22:40 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Lolest! wrote:
Alba wrote:
Fyatu wrote:


Where this land (Ruiru) sits there were no peasants then (1850 - 1960) Most peasants were in current Dagoretti, Kiambu town, Murang'a, Kirinyaga and Nyeri.Before the Mubeberu, land in central was communal. People started having their own pieces of land in 1957



First off I find it difficult to believe that no one lived in Ruiru between 1850 and 1960.
Be that as it may, grabbing communal land and apportioning it to yourself does not make it any better.

hardly. hapo wako na point. Africans preferred fertile lands higher up in Kiambu than marginal lands with Acacia and thorns. Maybe it's true that mzee had foresight coz many must've thought him crazy 'buying' such dry areas.

Swali ni, did Jomo buy the land? If he did, was it AT ARMS LENGTH/Market price? or did he use his prerogative under the law that was in place to allocate his family and cronies those huge swathes?


Which point? All land belong to the government, It was unethically for mtongoria to use his powers to allocate government land to himself. The fact is that, even though he might not ahve grabbed the land from an individual , he grabbed the land from the government.

It's Martha Karua using her powers as president in 2017 to allocate herself Mau forest and claim that she didn't grab the land from anyone since no one has a title deed to it
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
Swenani
#66 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 11:27:14 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Ngalaka wrote:
In the 60’s Kenya’s population was in the region of 10 million or thereabouts. Kenya's land mass was the same as it is today, now against a population of about 45 million.

It follows therefore that anybody who wanted to own land went ahead and owned it, in sizes that they thought was sufficient for their needs. Of course those who wanted to acquire land relinquished by the settlers had to buy it off. Other Land was readily available in Kenya, and most of it unclaimed - read free for occupation, all one needed to do was to settle there and begin cultivating it.

I take the view that Kenyatta committed no wrong by acquiring land – as no one has credibly demonstrated that he disposed them of their land through unlawful means.

The rest is politics – the so called sound bites.


Pointless!

Assuming I had powers to issue title deeds now and went to Turkana,Kiunga or Loitoktok and allocated myself massive land acreage since no one in that area owns a title deed or do not live there is that okay? Will anyone prove that I disposed them of any land?

The government holds land in trust for its citizens,when you as the head of GOK proceed to issue massive acreage of land to yourself just because no one lives or has a title deed to the same land is not okay

Quote:
Three years after Kenya’s independence in 1963, its iconic leader, Mzee Jomo Kenyatta, invoked the powers of his office to award himself a “small” farm in Juja, on the fringes of his Gatundu homeland, an hour north of Nairobi.

The “small” farm was 509 acres. In this spirit of fairness, the grand old man also gave his son, Peter Magana Kenyatta, 200 acres next to his land. Now the two could be neighbours.

At the time, the president was telling millions of landless squatters that the new Government did not have free land to give out. Majority of the squatters had been disinherited and displaced by the colonial government as punishment for supporting the Mau mau.

Leading by example, Kenyatta paid for the two parcels of land he had obtained for himself and his son. The amount he paid was a princely sum of Sh5,472. That’s for some 709 acres! Essentially, he was buying each acre for Sh7.70. At least it wasn’t free.

On July 9, 1966, while executing the powers vested in his office, Kenyatta officially transferred the land to himself. The title deed reads in part: ”The President of the Republic of Kenya on behalf of the Government of the Republic of Kenya grant unto His Excellency Mzee Jomo Kenyatta, President of Kenya (Post Office Box 125 Ruiru) the piece of land situated in Nairobi, containing 509 acres Land Reference Number 11493…”
The only condition the “Government” gave to Kenyatta was that the land be used for agricultural purposes only.

Kenyatta would repeat the script on November 14, 1966, and sign off some 200 acres to his beloved son Magana. Documents relating to Magana’s land indicate that the title was freehold. He shared the postal address with his father.
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
Ngalaka
#67 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 11:33:14 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Swenani wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
In the 60’s Kenya’s population was in the region of 10 million or thereabouts. Kenya's land mass was the same as it is today, now against a population of about 45 million.

It follows therefore that anybody who wanted to own land went ahead and owned it, in sizes that they thought was sufficient for their needs. Of course those who wanted to acquire land relinquished by the settlers had to buy it off. Other Land was readily available in Kenya, and most of it unclaimed - read free for occupation, all one needed to do was to settle there and begin cultivating it.

I take the view that Kenyatta committed no wrong by acquiring land – as no one has credibly demonstrated that he disposed them of their land through unlawful means.

The rest is politics – the so called sound bites.


Pointless!


I will gladly take up the point if you point it out to me.
Please indulge me
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Swenani
#68 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 11:41:29 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Ngalaka wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
In the 60’s Kenya’s population was in the region of 10 million or thereabouts. Kenya's land mass was the same as it is today, now against a population of about 45 million.

It follows therefore that anybody who wanted to own land went ahead and owned it, in sizes that they thought was sufficient for their needs. Of course those who wanted to acquire land relinquished by the settlers had to buy it off. Other Land was readily available in Kenya, and most of it unclaimed - read free for occupation, all one needed to do was to settle there and begin cultivating it.

I take the view that Kenyatta committed no wrong by acquiring land – as no one has credibly demonstrated that he disposed them of their land through unlawful means.

The rest is politics – the so called sound bites.


Pointless!


I will gladly take up the point if you point it out to me.
Please indulge me


See edited post above
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
Ngalaka
#69 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 12:05:39 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Swenani wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
In the 60’s Kenya’s population was in the region of 10 million or thereabouts. Kenya's land mass was the same as it is today, now against a population of about 45 million.

It follows therefore that anybody who wanted to own land went ahead and owned it, in sizes that they thought was sufficient for their needs. Of course those who wanted to acquire land relinquished by the settlers had to buy it off. Other Land was readily available in Kenya, and most of it unclaimed - read free for occupation, all one needed to do was to settle there and begin cultivating it.

I take the view that Kenyatta committed no wrong by acquiring land – as no one has credibly demonstrated that he disposed them of their land through unlawful means.

The rest is politics – the so called sound bites.


Pointless!


I will gladly take up the point if you point it out to me.
Please indulge me


See edited post above


I have seen the edited post. See my comments quoting the said post.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Ngalaka
#70 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2016 12:14:02 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Swenani wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
In the 60’s Kenya’s population was in the region of 10 million or thereabouts. Kenya's land mass was the same as it is today, now against a population of about 45 million.

It follows therefore that anybody who wanted to own land went ahead and owned it, in sizes that they thought was sufficient for their needs. Of course those who wanted to acquire land relinquished by the settlers had to buy it off. Other Land was readily available in Kenya, and most of it unclaimed - read free for occupation, all one needed to do was to settle there and begin cultivating it.

I take the view that Kenyatta committed no wrong by acquiring land – as no one has credibly demonstrated that he disposed them of their land through unlawful means.

The rest is politics – the so called sound bites.


Pointless!

Assuming I had powers to issue title deeds now and went to Turkana,Kiunga or Loitoktok and allocated myself massive land acreage since no one in that area owns a title deed or do not live there is that okay? Will anyone prove that I disposed them of any land?

The government holds land in trust for its citizens,when you as the head of GOK proceed to issue massive acreage of land to yourself just because no one lives or has a title deed to the same land is not okay

Quote:
Three years after Kenya’s independence in 1963, its iconic leader, Mzee Jomo Kenyatta, invoked the powers of his office to award himself a “small” farm in Juja, on the fringes of his Gatundu homeland, an hour north of Nairobi.

The “small” farm was 509 acres. In this spirit of fairness, the grand old man also gave his son, Peter Magana Kenyatta, 200 acres next to his land. Now the two could be neighbours.

At the time, the president was telling millions of landless squatters that the new Government did not have free land to give out. Majority of the squatters had been disinherited and displaced by the colonial government as punishment for supporting the Mau mau.

Leading by example, Kenyatta paid for the two parcels of land he had obtained for himself and his son. The amount he paid was a princely sum of Sh5,472. That’s for some 709 acres! Essentially, he was buying each acre for Sh7.70. At least it wasn’t free.

On July 9, 1966, while executing the powers vested in his office, Kenyatta officially transferred the land to himself. The title deed reads in part: ”The President of the Republic of Kenya on behalf of the Government of the Republic of Kenya grant unto His Excellency Mzee Jomo Kenyatta, President of Kenya (Post Office Box 125 Ruiru) the piece of land situated in Nairobi, containing 509 acres Land Reference Number 11493…”
The only condition the “Government” gave to Kenyatta was that the land be used for agricultural purposes only.

Kenyatta would repeat the script on November 14, 1966, and sign off some 200 acres to his beloved son Magana. Documents relating to Magana’s land indicate that the title was freehold. He shared the postal address with his father.


As I said in my initial post, If anyone presents CREDIBLE grounds on impropriety at the time of acquiring the land - I would take my words back.

In that spirit, kindly provide us the link to the source of your quote!

I hope it is credible, though the tenor of its language is a sell out.

I wish to keep an open mind though.



Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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