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Baba defends Kanyari & 310
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Othelo wrote:masukuma wrote:murchr wrote:
@Masukuma, and why dont we apply the same rules for NGOs?
you are fixed in dogma... believing the way you practice religion is the way others practice. There is no relation between NGOs and Churches... Think of Iike kitu ya jiggers or Beyond Zero... their output is measurable since THEY DO IT THEMSELVES. Churches are different.... they don't DO IT THEMSELVES.... the individual noted in the first lines of the constitution does. Religion is clear... don't blame me... blame that guy! ask that guy!! we are just mouthpieces... we don't do anything for you! Infact for religion it is between you and your God and mostly it is 'you' whose faith is not strong enough. Sometimes it can also be said that you are in the 'wait' mode and you need to be patient with God himself (it is never with the man of God)!!! he just receives the cash coz God cannot receive it himself!!!  All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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masukuma wrote:Othelo wrote:masukuma wrote:murchr wrote:
@Masukuma, and why dont we apply the same rules for NGOs?
you are fixed in dogma... believing the way you practice religion is the way others practice. There is no relation between NGOs and Churches... Think of Iike kitu ya jiggers or Beyond Zero... their output is measurable since THEY DO IT THEMSELVES. Churches are different.... they don't DO IT THEMSELVES.... the individual noted in the first lines of the constitution does. Religion is clear... don't blame me... blame that guy! ask that guy!! we are just mouthpieces... we don't do anything for you! Infact for religion it is between you and your God and mostly it is 'you' whose faith is not strong enough. Sometimes it can also be said that you are in the 'wait' mode and you need to be patient with God himself (it is never with the man of God)!!! he just receives the cash!!! stop treating giving as a bribe!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:masukuma wrote:Othelo wrote:masukuma wrote:murchr wrote:
@Masukuma, and why dont we apply the same rules for NGOs?
you are fixed in dogma... believing the way you practice religion is the way others practice. There is no relation between NGOs and Churches... Think of Iike kitu ya jiggers or Beyond Zero... their output is measurable since THEY DO IT THEMSELVES. Churches are different.... they don't DO IT THEMSELVES.... the individual noted in the first lines of the constitution does. Religion is clear... don't blame me... blame that guy! ask that guy!! we are just mouthpieces... we don't do anything for you! Infact for religion it is between you and your God and mostly it is 'you' whose faith is not strong enough. Sometimes it can also be said that you are in the 'wait' mode and you need to be patient with God himself (it is never with the man of God)!!! he just receives the cash!!! stop treating giving as a bribe!! it's not a bribe!! it's an instruction to the person we are talking about... it's 'for his good' ps. one of the terms and conditions we are talking about is that - he (mostly she) needs to do it 'cheerfully' ! not getting your objectives could be because you gave but not cheerfully (na pesa imeshaa enda) . anyway... I tend to think that what pisses people off is that the agent gets the money from people NOW and the people who need/want the blessings get their blessing at time X (Tx) where Tx is some date in the future and the futre happens to be infinte! Personally I just give sadaka... sitoi tithes kabisa... Kama tithes make people rich ningependa kujua Bill Gates alitoa ngapi! or anyone in the Forbes list! Ama Chinese or Indians lol! anyway... I think here we suffer from a morphed worldview coz the people who make it in church extrapolate their 'making it' to be because of the giving! but they are statistically the same as people who 'make it' in our economy outside 'giving'. Anyway that is for another discussion... my point... watu watoe! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@masukuma, if the person is an agent, then he/she can deliver the promise within reasonable time X. Anyway, this belief is reinforced by the testimonies. The claim that time X is infinite is the crime. Else how would the nabii determine the causal link?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:
@masukuma, if the person is an agent, then he/she can deliver the promise within reasonable time X. Anyway, this belief is reinforced by the testimonies. The claim that time X is infinite is the crime. Else how would the nabii determine the causal link?
he delivers the promise that his master (who choses when and if to answer queries) will determine the time X. The reasonableness is determined by the master not the agent. Time X is not infinite it exists sometime between now and the end of an infinite future. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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masukuma wrote:murchr wrote:
@Masukuma, and why dont we apply the same rules for NGOs?
you are fixed in dogma... believing the way you practice religion is the way others practice. There is no relation between NGOs and Churches... Think of Iike kitu ya jiggers or Beyond Zero... their output is measurable since THEY DO IT THEMSELVES. Churches are different.... they don't DO IT THEMSELVES.... the individual noted in the first lines of the constitution does. Religion is clear... don't blame me... blame that guy! ask that guy!! we are just mouthpieces... we don't do anything for you! You went waaaayyyy off. Let me paraphrase the question AGAIN. If the govt regulates the workings of NGOs who like churches receive monies from willing donors, why cant the same law apply to religious organizations for transparency's sake esp in these times where money laundery is a problem? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:
@masukuma, if the person is an agent, then he/she can deliver the promise within reasonable time X. Anyway, this belief is reinforced by the testimonies. The claim that time X is infinite is the crime. Else how would the nabii determine the causal link?
he delivers the promise that his master (who choses when and if to answer queries) will determine the time X. The reasonableness is determined by the master not the agent. Time X is not infinite it exists sometime between now and the end of an infinite future. Unfortunately this isn't the case. Most if not all agents put a claim to power and state it clearly. The words cause some people to believe in them and act in suggested ways. 'Tuma 310, saa hii!' If it's a matter of Christianity, then it is indeed believed that those with the holy spirit can heal, for example. So, the excuse you're offering is contradictory to the position that these agents hold, and the authority (master) they claim.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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PeterReborn wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:PeterReborn wrote:If Uhuru wants to see another term he needs to forget about regulating the church.Africans are notoriously religious and the last thing the state wants to do is to compete with this spirituality.
Demanding that the church ministers must have university degrees is nonsense.Kwani the disciples and apostles had degrees?
The freedom of worship is a fundamental right enshrined in our constitution and the garment cannot take away this right.
Those who want to give their money willingly to the church is their right and should actually be encouraged.It helps in bridging the haves and have not.The money donated is used in building schools,hospitals and other social amenities that helps in the welfare of the community.
The few elements tarnishing the good name of the church should be dealt with individually as per the law and there is no need to put a blanket legislation to punish the whole church.The state cannot and will not win this war. where do the new rules say church ministers must have university degrees. its okay to point out a bad law, but I think its prudent to point out facts, you can read the rules published, God has blessed you with access to information and an education so that you can make informed decisions, while its okay not to question what your pastor says, but some little reading is vital. You can call it degree,diploma or any other other academic accreditation from a registered theological institution.You don't need to go school so that you can teach the word of God.It is a vocation. I think the degree requirement is appropriate. Firstly, many if not most of the people targeted by these proposed laws even without prompting try very hard to be referred to as 'Doctors' and those who don't use this title make sure they have a degree or diploma. That's the metaphor that's working with the masses. So probing the claims of having a degree or being a doctor is appropriate in finding those whose intent is defraud and endanger citizen's lives.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/...oil-as-miracle-cure.htmlQuote:A FAKE “Archbishop” is flogging olive oil from Aldi as a wonder cure for cancer.
Gilbert Deya, 63, is also fleecing gullible church-goers with cash-for-miracles scams.
Incredibly, this is happening in 21st-century London.
Deya, who calls himself the Archbishop of Peckham, rakes in millions running dodgy evangelical churches in the UK.
This despite a ten-year battle to return him to his native Kenya to face baby-stealing charges.
Our two-month undercover investigation caught him and his pastors falsely selling olive oil from Aldi as a cure for cancer and HIV, and charging to perform “miracles” and to ensure infertile women conceive.
Horrified MP David Lammy last night branded Deya a “pernicious crook”.
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