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enyands
#81 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 5:55:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins

Well, who is the fool here?
In general terms, we (Kenya, EAC, Africa) do not believe in R&D. Let's look at farming. We are still using implements used 1,000 years ago. While the Americans are starting to use tractors with GPS on mega-farms, our farmers [with 3 wives & 20 kids] are sub-dividing 10 acre plots into 1 acre plots.

How many engineers does Kenya produce?
How many does China produce? Or India? These were also 3rd world [India still is] in 1963. What about South Korea? Even North Korea?

Can a Kenyan firm assemble [not even manufacture] a cost-effective kabambe mobile phone?

Back to the core topic...

EABL - A solid firm with a pedigree. It sells an ancient product but innovates thanks to support from its parent.

Bamburi - Cement has been produced for millennia but new technologies are changing the game. New products, new types of cement and new applications. Support from extensive R&D conducted by its parent.

*BTW, Equity is changing the game & has decimated BBK & SCBK by being INNOVATIVE. That is what counts not expecting favors just because a firm is 'local' coz that line is old. Look at Kenya's protected sugar producers. The only reason I don't have Equity as a 'lifetime' stock is coz of the uncertain succession.*


Some of us Africans need to travel and see how people out there reason and do things . People are closed minded because they Haven't seen how let's say simple transport system is managed in developed countries hata farming . Tusiende mbali Anza na education system - we are trained to be faithful employees and never innovators or entrepreneurs.most companies that have succeeded have a leaders who have either been educated or mentored by someone outside "kenya". Tufungue macho.
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murchr
#82 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 6:21:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
enyands wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins

Well, who is the fool here?
In general terms, we (Kenya, EAC, Africa) do not believe in R&D. Let's look at farming. We are still using implements used 1,000 years ago. While the Americans are starting to use tractors with GPS on mega-farms, our farmers [with 3 wives & 20 kids] are sub-dividing 10 acre plots into 1 acre plots.

How many engineers does Kenya produce?
How many does China produce? Or India? These were also 3rd world [India still is] in 1963. What about South Korea? Even North Korea?

Can a Kenyan firm assemble [not even manufacture] a cost-effective kabambe mobile phone?

Back to the core topic...

EABL - A solid firm with a pedigree. It sells an ancient product but innovates thanks to support from its parent.

Bamburi - Cement has been produced for millennia but new technologies are changing the game. New products, new types of cement and new applications. Support from extensive R&D conducted by its parent.

*BTW, Equity is changing the game & has decimated BBK & SCBK by being INNOVATIVE. That is what counts not expecting favors just because a firm is 'local' coz that line is old. Look at Kenya's protected sugar producers. The only reason I don't have Equity as a 'lifetime' stock is coz of the uncertain succession.*


Some of us Africans need to travel and see how people out there reason and do things . People are closed minded because they Haven't seen how let's say simple transport system is managed in developed countries hata farming . Tusiende mbali Anza na education system - we are trained to be faithful employees and never innovators or entrepreneurs.most companies that have succeeded have a leaders who have either been educated or mentored by someone outside "kenya". Tufungue macho.


Very true indeed. We have been raised to not challenge the status quo. Anyway, my 2 stocks tho not for life but for the long-term until the environment changes 1. Safcom - Because the world now revolves around big data and 2. EABL
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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Ericsson
#83 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 6:36:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
@VituVingiSana
You are going overboard in your statement and sarcasm.
If a large reinsurer is looking at investing in Africa let them come and start from scratch just like KCB,Equity did in Rwanda and Uganda.
KK did in Ethiopia and Uganda.
There are also the local oil companies and the two work to compete for the market.
Let EABL and Keroche compete at the same footing;not Keroche being sabotaged by gava at the expense of EABL.
By the way the following foreign re insurance companies are in operational in Kenya
Ghana Reinsurance
Continental Re from Nigeria
Swiss Re
Munich Reinsurance from Germany
Hannover Re
Africa Re
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Ericsson
#84 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 6:41:15 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
When an opportunity for an acquisition presents itself jump for the opportunity.
There is no free thing in this world;even in the west the local companies are given preferential treatment compared to foreign owned.

Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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sparkly
#85 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 8:50:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Othelo wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins

I have always wondered why Africa cannot organise themselves and create some serious trading block and development fund!!!


Exactly!

Trade between Africa and the west is heavily tilted in favour of the west. The west buys raw materials (never finished goods) then sells back finished goods.

African products are faced with Tariff and Non tariff barriers in the west.

Intra African trade on mutually beneficial terms can fast track development. e.g. South Sudan to sell oil to Kenya, Kenyan banks to provide development capital in SS.
Life is short. Live passionately.
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enyands
#86 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 9:21:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
sparkly wrote:
Othelo wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins

I have always wondered why Africa cannot organise themselves and create some serious trading block and development fund!!!


Exactly!

Trade between Africa and the west is heavily tilted in favour of the west. The west buys raw materials (never finished goods) then sells back finished goods.

African products are faced with Tariff and Non tariff barriers in the west.

Intra African trade on mutually beneficial terms can fast track development. e.g. South Sudan to sell oil to Kenya, Kenyan banks to provide development capital in SS.



This is practical written wise ,but on the ground just to let you know the west Will never allow this to happen.kwani where do you think they will sell their finished product if you depend on each other.should someone try that sinister move they will slap you with bans and trade embargos. Ask Gaddafi.he tried to make sure that Africa depends on herself ...they got rid of him very fast. We need people like Tom Sankara and the pan African leaders .
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sparkly
#87 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 9:30:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
enyands wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Othelo wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins

I have always wondered why Africa cannot organise themselves and create some serious trading block and development fund!!!


Exactly!

Trade between Africa and the west is heavily tilted in favour of the west. The west buys raw materials (never finished goods) then sells back finished goods.

African products are faced with Tariff and Non tariff barriers in the west.

Intra African trade on mutually beneficial terms can fast track development. e.g. South Sudan to sell oil to Kenya, Kenyan banks to provide development capital in SS.



This is practical written wise ,but on the ground just to let you know the west Will never allow this to happen.kwani where do you think they will sell their finished product if you depend on each other.should someone try that sinister move they will slap you with bans and trade embargos. Ask Gaddafi.he tried to make sure that Africa depends on herself ...they got rid of him very fast. We need people like Tom Sankara and the pan African leaders .


It's very possible and its happening. Uganda is now No. 1 destination of Kenyan exports.
Life is short. Live passionately.
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VituVingiSana
#88 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 10:13:44 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
@VituVingiSana
You are going overboard in your statement and sarcasm.
Not at all. I am looking forward. Thinking outside the box is free.
If a large reinsurer is looking at investing in Africa let them come and start from scratch
Why should a small or medium or large re-insurer be forced to start from scratch? If they pay a 'market' (or above market) price they can & should buy in. If anything we should be proud that we have built firms that are interesting as takeovers. KenyaRe bought a minority stake in UgandaRe. What if some Ugandans huffed & puffed & said KenyaRe (the foreigner) can't buy shares in UgandaRe?

Look at Equity Bank which managed to raise 11bn in 2008(?) from Helios. Today almost 40% of Equity is foreign owned but has created KENYAN billionaires in the process because FOREIGNERS are paying 'high' prices.

And YOU have the chance to compete AGAINST a foreign buyer for any of my shares. Look at Rea Vipingo where 2 local groups COMPETED against Rea the parent. Whoever paid the most won.
just like KCB,Equity did in Rwanda and Uganda.
Please stop lying to Wazuans. Equity bought out Uganda Microfinance Ltd
https://en.wikipedia.org...ity_Bank_Uganda_Limited
KK did in Ethiopia and Uganda.
Please stop lying to Wazuans. KK bought out some of Shell's petrol stations.
There are also the local oil companies and the two work to compete for the market.
Let EABL and Keroche compete at the same footing;not Keroche being sabotaged by gava at the expense of EABL.
Nonsense. The story goes much further & I explained it in an earlier post. Plus KBL came under Diageo's control when KENYANS refused to fully participate in Rights & Scrips Issues when EABL/KBL was raising funds in the 90s.
By the way the following foreign re insurance companies are in operational in Kenya
Ghana Reinsurance
Continental Re from Nigeria
Swiss Re
Munich Reinsurance from Germany
Hannover Re
Africa Re [I think KenyaRe has shares in it]
Good for them. I hope one of them offers me a huge premium for my KenyaRe. I will tender my shares pap! You can keep yours. Or even better compete against the 'foreigner' for my shares.


ScanGroup - Bharat built up the firm & over time sold 51% to WPP at a great price which made him a billionaire while making many other shareholders millionaires.

CFC/Heritage - Sold to the South Africans making Njonjo, Kiereini, etc millions if not billions. That did not stop Equity from growing.

Personally, I would love to see KK, KenRe, Unga, I&M, [among others] etc 'taken over' for a huge premium. I would cash out and look for other opportunities. Perhaps the proceeds from KK can be invested in Hashi. The proceeds from KenRe into Britam. The proceeds from Unga into Broadway/Festive or Flame Tree. The proceeds from I&M into NIC/DTB/Equity/KCB... I invest on the NSE to make money not push social [& fake patriotic] causes.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Ericsson
#89 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 10:30:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
@VituVingiSana
I can't argue with you;you think things work perfectly in this world;that is textbook.
What did equity acquire in Rwanda read keenly before replying with emotions.
Did you read this comment before replying
"When an opportunity for an acquisition presents itself jump for the opportunity."

The stake Kenya Re has in Africa Re is inconsequential and not something to write about.
If you are tired of your Kenya Re shares put them in the NSE platform where you bought them not these useless foreigners you keep praising them.
"the problem with an african is that he has taught himself that he can't do anything only the white skin can."

For equity bank I have my own reservations.Incase it goes under what assets are there to hold or sell;
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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VituVingiSana
#90 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 10:31:43 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Othelo wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins

I have always wondered why Africa cannot organise themselves and create some serious trading block and development fund!!!


Exactly!

Trade between Africa and the west is heavily tilted in favour of the west. The west buys raw materials (never finished goods) then sells back finished goods.

African products are faced with Tariff and Non tariff barriers in the west.

Intra African trade on mutually beneficial terms can fast track development. e.g. South Sudan to sell oil to Kenya, Kenyan banks to provide development capital in SS.


Let's be realistic. Kenyan banks are not in SS to invest for the long-term. If you look at the DETAILED information in the SS operations of KCB & Equity, the large profit lines are TRANSACTION fees and FOREIGN EXCHANGE GAINS.

As for the SS oil... Kenya offered a 'path' for SS through Kenya with SS funding the pipeline but they decided to continue using Sudan. An oil pipeline is not a bandia pipe that a bandia plumber can put up. Plus someone has to fund it and SS should have done so but they did not.

Bottomline: Africans don't want to help Africans. It's the reality.

Northern Tanzania is better served by Kenya for many of its goods eg petroleum but... And instead of cooperating with Kenyans, the Tanzanians hate us. It's almost the same in West Africa where most countries hate Nigeria's guts instead of exporting food to Nigeria [which imports basic commodities].

Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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