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It is Impossible to Have a Worse Government
limanika
#11 Posted : Wednesday, December 09, 2015 1:33:24 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Kyt you remind me of some coffee/tea farmers up country. When they receive payment they start wondering 'now what will I do to spend this money? He ends up going on vacation in coast/ drinks every day. A few months down the line he's broke. But this is ok since it's your own money, imagine something like eurobond going through similar fate with its handlers.
mkenyan
#12 Posted : Wednesday, December 09, 2015 1:57:23 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,885
tycho wrote:
The current government may be a flop, but running to another option who by the way hasn't offered any solutions is a joke. You were doing better by abstaining to vote, @alma.

this is one of those dumb statements i come across and i always wonder whether people just regurgitate stuff they have heard or been told. how would you expect them to offer solutions when they are not in government? by starting their own police force for example? or having a second government?
Swenani
#13 Posted : Wednesday, December 09, 2015 2:02:17 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
limanika wrote:
Kyt you remind me of some coffee/tea farmers up country. When they receive payment they start wondering 'now what will I do to spend this money? He ends up going on vacation in coast/ drinks every day. A few months down the line he's broke. But this is ok since it's your own money, imagine something like eurobond going through similar fate with its handlers.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
tycho
#14 Posted : Wednesday, December 09, 2015 2:22:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
mkenyan wrote:
tycho wrote:
The current government may be a flop, but running to another option who by the way hasn't offered any solutions is a joke. You were doing better by abstaining to vote, @alma.

this is one of those dumb statements i come across and i always wonder whether people just regurgitate stuff they have heard or been told. how would you expect them to offer solutions when they are not in government? by starting their own police force for example? or having a second government?


A statement can't be dumb. Without succumbing to the temptation of turning this into an argument against the person, I'll remind you that for one to get to government he/she has to be a part of a political organization, must engage the voters by explaining him/herself with regards to the issues that are outstanding and offer tentative solutions. Then voters choose if they like the proposals and give the candidate a mandate to execute the proposals. These proposals are the 'solutions'. So as per my explanation one doesn't need to have a second government or a private militia as you're thinking.

nakujua
#15 Posted : Wednesday, December 09, 2015 4:52:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
mkenyan wrote:
tycho wrote:
The current government may be a flop, but running to another option who by the way hasn't offered any solutions is a joke. You were doing better by abstaining to vote, @alma.

this is one of those dumb statements i come across and i always wonder whether people just regurgitate stuff they have heard or been told. how would you expect them to offer solutions when they are not in government? by starting their own police force for example? or having a second government?


A statement can't be dumb. Without succumbing to the temptation of turning this into an argument against the person, I'll remind you that for one to get to government he/she has to be a part of a political organization, must engage the vo@ters by explaining him/herself with regards to the issues that are outstanding and offer tentative solutions. Then voters choose if they like the proposals and give the candidate a mandate to execute the proposals. These proposals are the 'solutions'. So as per my explanation one doesn't need to have a second government or a private militia as you're thinking.


Interesting, I like @tycho point.
But its the name calling that puts some of, I mean having a civil debate void of extreme emotions especially when it comes to ones political likes and dislike would be great, whether one is supporting the government, opposition, or the fringe players akina mk, pk, mm or dida.

It doesn't hurt listening and digging up why one's view are the way they are.
mkenyan
#16 Posted : Wednesday, December 09, 2015 5:38:28 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,885
tycho wrote:
mkenyan wrote:
tycho wrote:
The current government may be a flop, but running to another option who by the way hasn't offered any solutions is a joke. You were doing better by abstaining to vote, @alma.

this is one of those dumb statements i come across and i always wonder whether people just regurgitate stuff they have heard or been told. how would you expect them to offer solutions when they are not in government? by starting their own police force for example? or having a second government?


A statement can't be dumb. Without succumbing to the temptation of turning this into an argument against the person, I'll remind you that for one to get to government he/she has to be a part of a political organization, must engage the voters by explaining him/herself with regards to the issues that are outstanding and offer tentative solutions. Then voters choose if they like the proposals and give the candidate a mandate to execute the proposals. These proposals are the 'solutions'. So as per my explanation one doesn't need to have a second government or a private militia as you're thinking.


really? same 'solutions' that the current people in government gave us before they were elected? are you honestly claiming that the 'other options' have not been full of such promises? even swenani and his choice are full of such solutions.
tycho
#17 Posted : Wednesday, December 09, 2015 6:07:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
mkenyan wrote:
tycho wrote:
mkenyan wrote:
tycho wrote:
The current government may be a flop, but running to another option who by the way hasn't offered any solutions is a joke. You were doing better by abstaining to vote, @alma.

this is one of those dumb statements i come across and i always wonder whether people just regurgitate stuff they have heard or been told. how would you expect them to offer solutions when they are not in government? by starting their own police force for example? or having a second government?


A statement can't be dumb. Without succumbing to the temptation of turning this into an argument against the person, I'll remind you that for one to get to government he/she has to be a part of a political organization, must engage the voters by explaining him/herself with regards to the issues that are outstanding and offer tentative solutions. Then voters choose if they like the proposals and give the candidate a mandate to execute the proposals. These proposals are the 'solutions'. So as per my explanation one doesn't need to have a second government or a private militia as you're thinking.


really? same 'solutions' that the current people in government gave us before they were elected? are you honestly claiming that the 'other options' have not been full of such promises? even swenani and his choice are full of such solutions.


They may not be the same 'solutions'. Think about the kinds of solutions given by Jubilee before getting elected, how were they processed? What was the level of engagement with the voters? What was the level of organization? For me, it's these issues that need some scrutiny.

Different people come up with different solutions, not all of them work, not all are effective or efficient; how do we find solutions that work? Such questions call for extensive engagement between solution providers and voters. Do we have a tradition for such engagement? As far as I can recall, our elections especially during the multi-party era have been populist and highly disorganized especially on the voter-candidate interface.

Realize the position you're left standing on @mkenyan: since even @swenani's choice is full of such solutions as those offered by the others, then we should toss a coin after eliminating those who've already been tried to choose the next government. Such a position has too many blind assumptions. Besides, politics is much more complicated.
kyt
#18 Posted : Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:32:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
@mkenyan; @tycho is right, the cord government is still not any better, if they can't govern their own party how do you expect them to govern a country? You that joke of solidarity fund? Shitty useless idea. Pathetic government that would have been cord
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
Swenani
#19 Posted : Thursday, December 10, 2015 8:41:56 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
kyt wrote:
@mkenyan; @tycho is right, the cord government is still not any better, if they can't govern their own party how do you expect them to govern a country? You that joke of solidarity fund? Shitty useless idea. Pathetic government that would have been cord



Who told you cord and jubilee are the only options? There is another option here
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
iris
#20 Posted : Thursday, December 10, 2015 11:07:24 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/11/2014
Posts: 228
Location: Nairobi
mkenyan wrote:
tycho wrote:
The current government may be a flop, but running to another option who by the way hasn't offered any solutions is a joke. You were doing better by abstaining to vote, @alma.

this is one of those dumb statements i come across and i always wonder whether people just regurgitate stuff they have heard or been told. how would you expect them to offer solutions when they are not in government? by starting their own police force for example? or having a second government?


@Mkenyan, agreed. I have come to believe most people who try hard to advance @tycho's reasoning are usually tribal apologists struggling to excuse the inexcusable. Only the government has the instruments and resources to fight corruption and offer solutions to other existing ills. All others are really extraneous and their contribution or lack of it has only minimal weight.

Good commentary here
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