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Friday 27th is therefore my leave day!!!!!!!
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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masukuma wrote:by the way... what is the point of a "language"? it's to communicate - right? for better or for worse we have english spoken more widely... is knowledge of english an asset? Do you see a future where a person in Kenya will not know how to speak english? if a language's primary reason of being is communication - why not embrace a widely spoken one? our children will learn these things... they will look around and pick a predominant language upende usipende! kinda like I did myself... Kikuyu is the language my mum and dad spoke to me in the evening.... as soon as I stepped out of that door I met all manner of people... in our plot and in school and church.... for 8-10 hours i was immersed in swahili/sheng and in the evening again.... kikuyu for like 4hours or less. My brother and I spoke swahili to each other and answered back in swahili! the only time i felt lack of knowing kikuyu was a problem was when I travelled to shags... my kids will not travel to that "shags" they will travel to Nakuru town as their shags or Mombasa as their shags - they will not feel the need to speak that language. most of us have travelled long distances from where we were born originally and look around... this will be shags for your grandchildren.... apartments and gated communities. someone will call donholm shags! this is of course assuming that they will care to travel to shags! most are confusing language for culture, but even for culture whats the need of it, if all it does is to create divisions. If aping another culture will unite us then that would be better. I am sure English in its current form was not the original language of the early Britons.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
most are confusing language for culture, but even for culture whats the need of it, if all it does is to create divisions. If aping another culture will unite us then that would be better. I am sure English in its current form was not the original language of the early Britons.
nah.. english as it is now is very different from the english of 100 years ago. or even 500 years ago. but english underwent radical changes during the time that the anglo saxons were under the norman (french) invasion. Early britons were the celtic tribes (think scottish, welsh and others who have been killed off or assimilated). "english" was more germanic before (check out old english) and has been reformed over and over. the anglo-saxons brought it from the european mainland and slowly by slowly it picked words from different cultures. no one says "peradventure" anymore or counts ages in "scores". people think of it as 'aping' and it's not! it's doing what humans do best... deciding between 2 things - based on practicality! By the way culture is more subtle not like traditions (the Mardi grases and Halloweens , lamu ceremonies , kurashia or circumcision ceremonies). Culture is more subtle - you only get to know it when immersed in another one.  All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,581
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So if i take the constitutional position on culture i am making a mistake, no! this one was done under the weight of Kenyan philosophy, this is better than science, or any attempts to argue "logically", these philosophers, they were looking into the future not backwards,better invest and promote the old old culture in this modern setting, see what you'll loose, if you can speak 4 languages the better, but it's better to add jaluo, kalenjin etc as the extra language than japanese, chinese, e.t.c where you would all be but a tourist if you are a successful person, in any case our very good Kenyan english is enough, but if you add luo, you can attend a gor mahia game and gather useful intel.... Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/23/2012 Posts: 32
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/7/2007 Posts: 838
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This is simply amazing. Equating spoken language to being backward. You can make an interesting study @hamburglar. I wonder whether the Irish who speak Celtic are called backward by their own people because English is more widely spoken there. Or the Swedish who don't speak English being taken as more learned. Hahaha...I feel you have never left your cocoon to realise how rich African culture really is. You simply have never been exposed to true culture. WHO DARES WINS
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/7/2007 Posts: 838
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masukuma wrote:marko wrote:masukuma wrote:murchr wrote:As the Wahenga said, muacha mila ni mtumwa.
I would have loved to have some of these wahengas showing up over here!! the y would be shocked! somehow we tend to think of these wahangas as all wise people kumbe they were fishermen who never travelled 200kms away from their homes. Maybe back then it was useful to have a cultural identity.... right now? it's as useful as fresh breath is to a telephone operator. @Masukuma. Most of the modern day wahengas I am sure you revere, the Machiavelli's, Plato's, Socrates, Da Vincis, Newtons etc etc never travelled more than 200 kms out of their villages. these are not modern wahengas... they would still be collecting jaws from the floor if they came here NOW not even gone to Europe or America. The youngest of these people lived 300 years ago - way before the Kikuyus settled around Mt Kenya. Some of these wahengas are so old that our wahengas are even younger!! The fallacy we have is that there was a golden age in some era passed!! THIS IS THE GOLDEN AGE!! Don't live a modern life looking behind... there is nothing but ignorance and brutishness there and the occasional nugget that makes us romanticize the ages gone by. Everything you use and do now..including those computers came from those 300 year old men. WHO DARES WINS
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/7/2007 Posts: 838
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Anti_Burglar wrote:marko wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:Marko, if you think culture, democracy and politics are properly compartmentalized in this country you need to go back to sleep. I wish you sweet dreams. Why don't you present your argument? You have practically said nothing there. You remind me of those days people used to post full-stops and the word ditto just to get more post numbers on the record. I'm sorry you have missed it. I wish I spoke someone who was awake. I regret my wasted post. Still not saying much I am afraid. WHO DARES WINS
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/7/2007 Posts: 838
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Swenani wrote:marko wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:Marko, if you think culture, democracy and politics are properly compartmentalized in this country you need to go back to sleep. I wish you sweet dreams. Why don't you present your argument? You have practically said nothing there. You remind me of those days people used to post full-stops and the word ditto just to get more post numbers on the record. Ditto  .  WHO DARES WINS
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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@masukuma, siku hizi you are on fire. If you are not teaching at a university, it's a great shame.
People are arguing as if culture = old traditions. As if culture is static. But culture is simply the way of life of a people at a particular point in time. I always smile anytime I hear someone talking of a non-existent concept like kikuyu culture. Now can anyone honestly claim there is any homogeneity between the way of life of Njenga Karume's family and that of Philip Ndegwa ? They are both kikuyus in the same class. Now throw in a poor family in Ndudori.
Their values, language, worldview, practices, standpoint on issues confronting them is so different that you cannot lump them together as a homogeneous group bound by culture.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/7/2007 Posts: 838
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Even the Pope in his address at the mass at UON asked the youth to use their strong African traditions as a guide in their life.. WHO DARES WINS
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Friday 27th is therefore my leave day!!!!!!!
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