kizee do you know the meaning of systematic or are you just going by what victor conte said?

I am talking about the definition used by IAAF / IOC and WADA.

Based on your posts above I'm guessing you do not know the meaning. Use google. Stop depending on that liar/ charlatan/ convicted criminal known as victor conte

@kizee
You must be laughing at yourself. You are exposing the fact that you do not even know the meaning of this word.

That is not the definition of systematic that is used by IAAF, WADA and IOC. If it was then the USA would be the first country banned for systematic doping.

Note: I did not ask you to provide the dictionary definition. You need to prove that you know the meaning of the word as used in this context. If you bothered to read this thread you would know the meaning.

No credible news outlet be it BBC or NBC has accused the US of systematic doping.

Go back to the drawing board. You clearly do not know the meaning of the word systematic as used in this context.

And while you are going back to the drawing board, ask yourself why Russia is the only country that has been accused of systematic doping and even prime minister Putin has admitted that there is systematic doping in Russia

How clueless. This statement proves once and for all that you do not know the meaning of systematic doping. It has nothing to do with sophistication nor professionalism nor succesful. If that were the case then all countries would be banned for systematic doping be it India or Kenya or Morocco.

Systematic doping when used in this context simply means a state sponsored doping program or state sanctioned doping program. A basic google search would have told you that it is typically used to describe East Germany and now Russia.

Look men. Russia is not being banned because their system is sophisticated or successful as you are trying to claim. They are being banned because the doping was controlled, mandated and designed by the state authorities. In some cases, athletes were forced to dope. The Russian sports ministry was in charge of the doping program. FSB which is their equivalent of Kenya's CID was also involved.

That is the meaning of systematic doping. Do some basic research next time and you will not end up making a clown of yourself. Your research should have started with articles like this so you can get a basic understanding.

https://www.washingtonpo...1ae2e4f50f76_story.html

why not provide links from wada, or iaaf or whatever those athletics bodies are called about the definition, you might just be trying to redefine a word.

Systematic is an English word, I have never heard of word used in reports that mean something different, have you read that report, is there a disclaimer redefining the word. Just asking

Nakujua

Every country has athletes who think it is normal to dope. In fact in some sports it is indeed normal to dope. When the likes of Lance Armstrong are asked why the dope, the answer is always "Everyone does it".

Russia is NOT being banned because they think it is normal to dope. Russia is being banned because the very officials who are expected to prevent doping are the ones providing athletes with dope and in some cases even coercing athletes to dope.

It is systematic in the sense that practically every athlete in the Russian system is doping under the direction of officials.

Doping in America and most other countries is done under the table. Each athlete is on his or her own and must find their own suppliers. That is not Systematic. That is individual doping.

Again systematic has nothing to do with organized or successful or sophisticated as kizee was trying to claim. If it was then every country should be banned. Even Kenyan dopers are sophisticated and succesful as are Indian and Mexican dopers.

"In a sense, I don't care whether you're there with clean athletes if the only reason is fear of getting caught, as opposed to thinking that's the right thing to do. Listen, Russia built Sochi in seven years. This is child's play."

The dictionary definition is irrelevant in this case. If you use the dictionary definition then all countries should be immediately banned, not just Russia. How come this concept is so difficult for people to understand?



1. Doping is big business in every country so your point is irrelevant.
2. Doping requires planning in every country so I am not sure what your point is.

American track athletes do their doping under the table. Can you give us an example of an athlete that engaged in systematic doping in the last 15 years? Remember this discussion is about athletics. Not cycling. Not baseball.

If you can provide an example of systematic doping by a track athlete in America since the year 2000 you win.

sawa @Alba umeshinda you even specify the period you want us to consider post 2000, and even for that apart from gatlin and gay you still have the issue of tim in 2001, you want to redefine the word systematic since it does not fit your narrative.

Sawa in the usa hakuna systematic doping either-way they do not even have a sports ministry.

I feel your frustration with Alba. I understand what it feels like to debate with one who has to 'win' at all costs all the time.

Pound said it was inconceivable that the Russian sports minister, Vitaly Mutko, was not aware of the scale of the problem.

The Wada report said the Russian anti-doping agency was under improper influence from Mutko’s ministry, that it had given athletes advance notice of tests and that its employees “routinely” took bribes from athletes to cover up doping.

The report alleged "systemic" collusion between Russian athletes and the country's federation and anti-doping authorities and a "deeply-rooted culture of cheating" that enabled athletes to take performance-enhancing drugs without fear of being tested.

Those allegations were among hundreds contained in a report released Monday by the World Anti-Doping Agency. Across 323 pages, it implicates athletes, coaches, trainers, doctors and various Russian institutions, laying out what is very likely the most extensive state-sponsored doping program since the notorious East German regime of the 1970s.

The systematic doping began in 1974 when Party leaders met with the East German Sports Performance Committee to decide how best to guarantee gold medals and international glory.

Monday’s report implicates coaches, doctors, athletes, Russia’s anti-doping agency, and an accredited Moscow laboratory that oversaw testing for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. It describes cover-ups, destruction of test samples, and payments to conceal results. Additionally, athletes were told when they would be tested, taking away the element of surprise that has proven key in catching doping violations.

There is no sign of intelligent life here.


The dictionary definitions is : done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical.

I will concede this debate if kratos and others can tell me:

1. Based on this definition of systematic doping Which countries are doing systematic and which ones are unsystematic

So based on that definition, please tell me which country is engaging in doping that is not done according to a fixed plan

2. Why is Russia the only country being banned for systematic doping?

My contention is simple: All doping is organized and done according to plan. So if the dictionary definition applies, then every country is engaging in systematic doping and every country should be banned.

In fact Kenya should be among the 1st one banned. Rita Jeptoo's doping was very sophsiticated and planned. She doped for 4 years without being caught. Many other Kenyans still have not been caught.

Perhaps Kratos and others can explain which country is unsystematic