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Tribulations of a Kenyan contractor doing state jobs...
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Kaigangio wrote:limanika wrote:Overall thread title should have been 'tribulations of taxpayer'. Oftentimes these contracting companies were formed by same govt officials thro proxy, hence they happily ride through these 'tribulations ' @limanika...the guy who is actually facing tribulations here is the contractor. Sadly, the tribulations are coming from the taxpayers themselves.  The difference is the same from where i sit, in the final analysis the taxpayer foots the entire bill for work not done..
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Kaigangio wrote:Othelo wrote:Baratang wrote:Kaigangio wrote:…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over… That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job?  Boss tuliza boli.....  @baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m. As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16mThe contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet. This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows 20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/15/2015 Posts: 817
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Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Othelo wrote:Baratang wrote:Kaigangio wrote:…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over… That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job? Boss tuliza boli..... @baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m. As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16mThe contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet. This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows 20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes you seem to be very deep in this corruptions business.lets us more !
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
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Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Othelo wrote:Baratang wrote:Kaigangio wrote:…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over… That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job? Boss tuliza boli..... @baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m. As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16mThe contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet. This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows 20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes @swenani...You don't calculate it that way. You see, the variations (extra works) have not been approved by the ministry yet and there is no guarantee that they will ever be approved. A variation that has not been approved is never paid for... In actual fact, the contractor may be down by more than kshs 16m because of the amounts spent on carrying out the extra works namely rocks excavations!! perhaps if the value of the two variations so far is kahs 56m, if we apply a 50% mark-up, then the contractor has spent about kshs 25m on rock excavations. So the contractor is down by kshs 16m + kshs 25m = kshs 41mpole sana kwa contractor. Upto here the contractor is very innocent so far... ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Kaigangio wrote:Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Othelo wrote:Baratang wrote:Kaigangio wrote:…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over… That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job? Boss tuliza boli..... @baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m. As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16mThe contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet. This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows 20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes @swenani...You don't calculate it that way. You see, the variations (extra works) have not been approved by the ministry yet and there is no guarantee that they will ever be approved. A variation that has not been approved is never paid for... In actual fact, the contractor may be down by more than kshs 16m because of the amounts spent on carrying out the extra works namely rocks excavations!! perhaps if the value of the two variations so far is kahs 56m, if we apply a 50% mark-up, then the contractor has spent about kshs 25m on rock excavations. So the contractor is down by kshs 16m + kshs 25m = kshs 41mpole sana kwa contractor. Upto here the contractor is very innocent so far... Are the works variation supposed to be approved before fact or after fact? The contractor is not innocent,with all those bribes paid out you think he is innocent, he should have walked away the first instance he was asked to bribe! He is unethical and should choke on his/her breakfast table, s/he is one among many of the kenyans who are running this country down. If you do not pay bribes, there will be no takes If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
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Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Othelo wrote:Baratang wrote:Kaigangio wrote:…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over… That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job? Boss tuliza boli..... @baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m. As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16mThe contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet. This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows 20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes @swenani...You don't calculate it that way. You see, the variations (extra works) have not been approved by the ministry yet and there is no guarantee that they will ever be approved. A variation that has not been approved is never paid for... In actual fact, the contractor may be down by more than kshs 16m because of the amounts spent on carrying out the extra works namely rocks excavations!! perhaps if the value of the two variations so far is kahs 56m, if we apply a 50% mark-up, then the contractor has spent about kshs 25m on rock excavations. So the contractor is down by kshs 16m + kshs 25m = kshs 41mpole sana kwa contractor. Upto here the contractor is very innocent so far... Are the works variation supposed to be approved before fact or after fact? The contractor is not innocent,with all those bribes paid out you think he is innocent, he should have walked away the first instance he was asked to bribe! He is unethical and should choke on his/her breakfast table, s/he is one among many of the kenyans who are running this country down. If you do not pay bribes, there will be no takes You see @swenani the instruction to carry out the rock excavations had been issued by the ministry, but there was no ministry representative on site to confirm the extent of excavations. The quantities as given by the contractor had to be verified first before the variation was approved. As per that time, you either paid the bribe or you were out of business. A contract worth more than kshs 50m was very hard to come by. This one each and every tenderer was fighting nail and tooth to get it. You see, if he refused to pay the bribe at his tendered sum of kshs 160m, those guys would have given it to the third lowest at kshs 258m. Kwisha maneno!! The only question therefore that we should ask for now is will he execute the contract as per the specification and within the revised completion date? ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 299 Location: kenya
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Quote:Kaigangio wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Othelo wrote:
Baratang wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over…
That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job?d'oh! d'oh!
Boss tuliza boli..... smile
@baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m.
As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16m
The contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet.Sad
This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows
20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million
Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes
@swenani...You don't calculate it that way. You see, the variations (extra works) have not been approved by the ministry yet and there is no guarantee that they will ever be approved. A variation that has not been approved is never paid for...
In actual fact, the contractor may be down by more than kshs 16m because of the amounts spent on carrying out the extra works namely rocks excavations!! perhaps if the value of the two variations so far is kahs 56m, if we apply a 50% mark-up, then the contractor has spent about kshs 25m on rock excavations.
So the contractor is down by kshs 16m + kshs 25m = kshs 41m
pole sana kwa contractor.
Upto here the contractor is very innocent so far...
Are the works variation supposed to be approved before fact or after fact?
The contractor is not innocent,with all those bribes paid out you think he is innocent, he should have walked away the first instance he was asked to bribe!
He is unethical and should choke on his/her breakfast table, s/he is one among many of the kenyans who are running this country down.
If you do not pay bribes, there will be no takes No single thriving contractor in Kenya who deals with the public sector can speak against bribery because that what they thrive on.Its either you participate or perish. Even Ching Kun have mastered the art and joined the bad-wagon.The Chinese send their agents fix deals way before the tender processes is finalized.I guess thats how "business" in the government is done.Hata ile ya nusu mkate.Though they would want us to think differently.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Kaigangio wrote:Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Othelo wrote:Baratang wrote:Kaigangio wrote:…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over… That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job? Boss tuliza boli..... @baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m. As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16mThe contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet. This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows 20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes @swenani...You don't calculate it that way. You see, the variations (extra works) have not been approved by the ministry yet and there is no guarantee that they will ever be approved. A variation that has not been approved is never paid for... In actual fact, the contractor may be down by more than kshs 16m because of the amounts spent on carrying out the extra works namely rocks excavations!! perhaps if the value of the two variations so far is kahs 56m, if we apply a 50% mark-up, then the contractor has spent about kshs 25m on rock excavations. So the contractor is down by kshs 16m + kshs 25m = kshs 41mpole sana kwa contractor. Upto here the contractor is very innocent so far... Are the works variation supposed to be approved before fact or after fact? The contractor is not innocent,with all those bribes paid out you think he is innocent, he should have walked away the first instance he was asked to bribe! He is unethical and should choke on his/her breakfast table, s/he is one among many of the kenyans who are running this country down. If you do not pay bribes, there will be no takes You see @swenani the instruction to carry out the rock excavations had been issued by the ministry, but there was no ministry representative on site to confirm the extent of excavations. The quantities as given by the contractor had to be verified first before the variation was approved. As per that time, you either paid the bribe or you were out of business. A contract worth more than kshs 50m was very hard to come by. This one each and every tenderer was fighting nail and tooth to get it. You see, if he refused to pay the bribe at his tendered sum of kshs 160m, those guys would have given it to the third lowest at kshs 258m. Kwisha maneno!! The only question therefore that we should ask for now is will he execute the contract as per the specification and within the revised completion date? Yote tisa..kumi ni, 1.He would not have died of hunger,if he would have walked away.If all the contractors were ethical and refused to pay bribes, GOk would have issued the contract without expecting bribes 2.If the instructions were issued by the ministry,then there was a possibility of him getting paid for the variations even if it would have been adjusted downwards/upwards. But I'm writing this from an ideal perspective which is not the reality in Kenya...Bottomline is that the contract should not complain whether he makes profit or a loss If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
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popat wrote:Quote:Kaigangio wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Othelo wrote:
Baratang wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over…
That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job?d'oh! d'oh!
Boss tuliza boli..... smile
@baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m.
As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16m
The contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet.Sad
This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows
20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million
Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes
@swenani...You don't calculate it that way. You see, the variations (extra works) have not been approved by the ministry yet and there is no guarantee that they will ever be approved. A variation that has not been approved is never paid for...
In actual fact, the contractor may be down by more than kshs 16m because of the amounts spent on carrying out the extra works namely rocks excavations!! perhaps if the value of the two variations so far is kahs 56m, if we apply a 50% mark-up, then the contractor has spent about kshs 25m on rock excavations.
So the contractor is down by kshs 16m + kshs 25m = kshs 41m
pole sana kwa contractor.
Upto here the contractor is very innocent so far...
Are the works variation supposed to be approved before fact or after fact?
The contractor is not innocent,with all those bribes paid out you think he is innocent, he should have walked away the first instance he was asked to bribe!
He is unethical and should choke on his/her breakfast table, s/he is one among many of the kenyans who are running this country down.
If you do not pay bribes, there will be no takes No single thriving contractor in Kenya who deals with the public sector can speak against bribery because that what they thrive on.Its either you participate or perish. Even Ching Kun have mastered the art and joined the bad-wagon.The Chinese send their agents fix deals way before the tender processes is finalized.I guess thats how "business" in the government is done.Hata ile ya nusu mkate.Though they would want us to think differently. You are very right @popat. If a contractor cannot play it like others in the field, then he has no business tendering for state jobs. ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
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Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Swenani wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Othelo wrote:Baratang wrote:Kaigangio wrote:…Even after receiving the cheques worth kshs 53m, the contractors financial problems/woes are far from over… That is a lot of money the contractor has received. Why would the contractor still be in problems at least on this job? Boss tuliza boli..... @baratang...You see at an average mark up of 15% the contractor has spent about kshs 46m on materials and labour. Don't forget before the contract started, the contractor had already spent kshs 21m. And then during the grand receiving of the cheques kshs 2m was expended. So total expenditure to date is actually kshs 69m. As of now the profit so far is kshs 53-kshs 69 = kshs -16mThe contractor is still down by kshs 16m, meaning he has not broken even yet. This is a wrong layman's accounting.The correct accrual accounting for profit to date is as follows 20M(works variation)+36 M(rock excavation variation)+53 M(invoiced certified workdone)-46M=63Million Even if you were to deduct the 23Million paid in bribes, the contractor has already made 40 Million in profit just for clearing the bushes @swenani...You don't calculate it that way. You see, the variations (extra works) have not been approved by the ministry yet and there is no guarantee that they will ever be approved. A variation that has not been approved is never paid for... In actual fact, the contractor may be down by more than kshs 16m because of the amounts spent on carrying out the extra works namely rocks excavations!! perhaps if the value of the two variations so far is kahs 56m, if we apply a 50% mark-up, then the contractor has spent about kshs 25m on rock excavations. So the contractor is down by kshs 16m + kshs 25m = kshs 41mpole sana kwa contractor. Upto here the contractor is very innocent so far... Are the works variation supposed to be approved before fact or after fact? The contractor is not innocent,with all those bribes paid out you think he is innocent, he should have walked away the first instance he was asked to bribe! He is unethical and should choke on his/her breakfast table, s/he is one among many of the kenyans who are running this country down. If you do not pay bribes, there will be no takes You see @swenani the instruction to carry out the rock excavations had been issued by the ministry, but there was no ministry representative on site to confirm the extent of excavations. The quantities as given by the contractor had to be verified first before the variation was approved. As per that time, you either paid the bribe or you were out of business. A contract worth more than kshs 50m was very hard to come by. This one each and every tenderer was fighting nail and tooth to get it. You see, if he refused to pay the bribe at his tendered sum of kshs 160m, those guys would have given it to the third lowest at kshs 258m. Kwisha maneno!! The only question therefore that we should ask for now is will he execute the contract as per the specification and within the revised completion date? Yote tisa..kumi ni, 1.He would not have died of hunger,if he would have walked away.If all the contractors were ethical and refused to pay bribes, GOk would have issued the contract without expecting bribes 2.If the instructions were issued by the ministry,then there was a possibility of him getting paid for the variations even if it would have been adjusted downwards/upwards. But I'm writing this from an ideal perspective which is not the reality in Kenya...Bottomline is that the contract should not complain whether he makes profit or a loss @swenani...in the 90s new development had already stagnated because there was only enough revenue available for the recurrent expenditure and not for anything else. The private sector was badly way off too. When too many people are competing for very few jobs, believe me, ethics are thrown through the window and the subjects enter the arena with bare knuckles. As for the variations, like you say, once verified it can be downgraded or upgraded depending on the actual scenario on the ground. However, the variation can never be paid for unless it is approved. Some variations goes to beyond the completion time of projects without being paid for if there is a dispute over the extent of the works. So can we all agree the contractor has been badly shafted so far at this point in time? ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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