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Centum pays out KSH 1 billion to employees
Rank: Member Joined: 6/15/2013 Posts: 301
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lochaes wrote:mawinder wrote:lochaes wrote:Cash flow issues at Two rivers? Why/link? material suppliers have not been paid for a while now. No link. word on the ground DJ and Mworia were very optimistic that mall would be open in September...that's two months back now. If you pass by the project it looks no where near completion. Maybe the slow down in completion may be a reflection of cash flow problems. And to me that mall seems a little bit out of the way from town. Why would I pass muthaiga mini market, village market, ridgeways mall and the new rosslyn Riviera and ciata city coming up to do grocery shopping etc when I can do all that in these malls that I have passed. They better have something special to pull in the clientele.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,838
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VituVingiSana wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:target1360 wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Why would James Mworia (& CK) have bought Centum shares in the 60s [or so he says] if he knew about the drama?
Naikuni/Mbugua stayed away from KQ shares coz they knew about the rot.
Mworia has much more to lose with his investment in Centum at the 60-ish entry price. maybe we should ask where the money to buy at sh 60 came from,just maybe Likely came from the bonus pool. being a large shareholder and having board seats often means that you are likely to benefit from skewed company deals that other shareholders know nothing about. remember the CMC guy Peter Muthoka and Andy Forwarder's deal? Andy Forwarders supposedly overcharged CMC by 1.5 billion because Peter was part of the board and could direct contracts to his company. This is the kind of stuff ordinary shareholders never know about. Don't compare yourself with significant shareholders and insiders if you're not sure about the backroom board deals. Peter Muthoka had voting clout [20% or so shareholding] on the board. His 'loss' on his 20% was adequately covered by the shady deals. The guy with the most to lose in Centum is CK with 25-30% if anyone else does anything fishy. @vvs - You are very familiar with Merali deals. This is how these things work. I set up company A which is publicly traded in the NSE. I sell all of you shares but I retain controlling shares (Like 30%). Unknown to you, I have companies B, C, D and E where the shareholding is me my wife, kids and girlfriends. Through my influence, companies B, C, D and E are awarded contracts by A which are extremely skewed in their favour. In due course we all lose money in company A only that the money has been "lost" to my companies! I cry with you in the morning then go celebrate with my wife and kids in the afternoon!!! To make sure employees don't payuka payuka ovyo, I can threaten them, employ selectively, put employees on a bonus galore or a combination of sorts! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,838
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target1360 wrote:MaichBlack wrote:Ericsson wrote:I mentioned in an earlier post in this topic the company will become a shell like uchumi;now the signs are starting to appear.Material suppliers haven't been paid.
The 38% stake of tow rivers owned by AVIC/CATIC;no money changed hands.Centum converted the amount of money they owed the contractor in unpaid dues to equity to settle the matter.
Contractor of Two Rivers Mall is CATIC whose parent company is AVIC.
Centum also has no room to borrow;debt is at limits and also the high interest rates have curtailed further borrowing 38% stake gone?? Just like that. Don't be surprised if this was the plan all along or/and someone has some interest in AVIC/CATIC through some intricate Web of shareholding or AVIC/CATIC have yet another agreement with some obscure company to cede 50% of their 38% to them!! Welcome to Nairobbery!!! so Centrum only owns 62% of the project! And the project is not complete yet! By the time it is done it might end up like the payslip of a Kenyan policeman. The shareholders will be called to be told what they HAD and given a breakdown of where it all went! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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Their debt level is getting out of hand with no tangible/credible revenue sources in the offing. Sidelines it is!!!!! Let those who have the will make money here, not me!!! Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2014 Posts: 1,420 Location: Bohemian Grove
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MaichBlack wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:target1360 wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Why would James Mworia (& CK) have bought Centum shares in the 60s [or so he says] if he knew about the drama?
Naikuni/Mbugua stayed away from KQ shares coz they knew about the rot.
Mworia has much more to lose with his investment in Centum at the 60-ish entry price. maybe we should ask where the money to buy at sh 60 came from,just maybe Likely came from the bonus pool. being a large shareholder and having board seats often means that you are likely to benefit from skewed company deals that other shareholders know nothing about. remember the CMC guy Peter Muthoka and Andy Forwarder's deal? Andy Forwarders supposedly overcharged CMC by 1.5 billion because Peter was part of the board and could direct contracts to his company. This is the kind of stuff ordinary shareholders never know about. Don't compare yourself with significant shareholders and insiders if you're not sure about the backroom board deals. Peter Muthoka had voting clout [20% or so shareholding] on the board. His 'loss' on his 20% was adequately covered by the shady deals. The guy with the most to lose in Centum is CK with 25-30% if anyone else does anything fishy. @vvs - You are very familiar with Merali deals. This is how these things work. I set up company A which is publicly traded in the NSE. I sell all of you shares but I retain controlling shares (Like 30%). Unknown to you, I have companies B, C, D and E where the shareholding is me my wife, kids and girlfriends. Through my influence, companies B, C, D and E are awarded contracts by A which are extremely skewed in their favour. In due course we all lose money in company A only that the money has been "lost" to my companies! I cry with you in the morning then go celebrate with my wife and kids in the afternoon!!! To make sure employees don't payuka payuka ovyo, I can threaten them, employ selectively, put employees on a bonus galore or a combination of sorts! Such deals are the norm in Kenya. Like Merali who build two real estate projects with cash from ECB then the loans were written off before it was sold.So in any investment do lots of due diligence to safeguard your cash.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
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Centum is a slaughter house, wait and see.
If you quit when it was at 65.00 you are good to go , congrats
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,349 Location: Nairobi
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MaichBlack wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:target1360 wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Why would James Mworia (& CK) have bought Centum shares in the 60s [or so he says] if he knew about the drama?
Naikuni/Mbugua stayed away from KQ shares coz they knew about the rot.
Mworia has much more to lose with his investment in Centum at the 60-ish entry price. maybe we should ask where the money to buy at sh 60 came from,just maybe Likely came from the bonus pool. being a large shareholder and having board seats often means that you are likely to benefit from skewed company deals that other shareholders know nothing about. remember the CMC guy Peter Muthoka and Andy Forwarder's deal? Andy Forwarders supposedly overcharged CMC by 1.5 billion because Peter was part of the board and could direct contracts to his company. This is the kind of stuff ordinary shareholders never know about. Don't compare yourself with significant shareholders and insiders if you're not sure about the backroom board deals. Peter Muthoka had voting clout [20% or so shareholding] on the board. His 'loss' on his 20% was adequately covered by the shady deals. The guy with the most to lose in Centum is CK with 25-30% if anyone else does anything fishy. @vvs - You are very familiar with Merali deals. This is how these things work. I set up company A which is publicly traded in the NSE. I sell all of you shares but I retain controlling shares (Like 30%). Unknown to you, I have companies B, C, D and E where the shareholding is me my wife, kids and girlfriends. Through my influence, companies B, C, D and E are awarded contracts by A which are extremely skewed in their favour. In due course we all lose money in company A only that the money has been "lost" to my companies! I cry with you in the morning then go celebrate with my wife and kids in the afternoon!!! To make sure employees don't payuka payuka ovyo, I can threaten them, employ selectively, put employees on a bonus galore or a combination of sorts! Similar to what was done at Uchumi, eh? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
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Suposing you own a bar and you always drink in this bar of your
Supose you buy the beer at 300 bob like all the other patrons and that the actual cost of the beer is 100.
What cost do you inccurr of the beer you drink. Answer 100 bob
Why so. Beause at the end of the month you get back the profit meaning you even get refunded the 200 above the 100 bob actual cost
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,824 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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VituVingiSana wrote:MaichBlack wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:
Likely came from the bonus pool.
being a large shareholder and having board seats often means that you are likely to benefit from skewed company deals that other shareholders know nothing about.
remember the CMC guy Peter Muthoka and Andy Forwarder's deal? Andy Forwarders supposedly overcharged CMC by 1.5 billion because Peter was part of the board and could direct contracts to his company.
This is the kind of stuff ordinary shareholders never know about. Don't compare yourself with significant shareholders and insiders if you're not sure about the backroom board deals.
Peter Muthoka had voting clout [20% or so shareholding] on the board. His 'loss' on his 20% was adequately covered by the shady deals. The guy with the most to lose in Centum is CK with 25-30% if anyone else does anything fishy. @vvs - You are very familiar with Merali deals. This is how these things work. I set up company A which is publicly traded in the NSE. I sell all of you shares but I retain controlling shares (Like 30%). Unknown to you, I have companies B, C, D and E where the shareholding is me my wife, kids and girlfriends. Through my influence, companies B, C, D and E are awarded contracts by A which are extremely skewed in their favour. In due course we all lose money in company A only that the money has been "lost" to my companies! I cry with you in the morning then go celebrate with my wife and kids in the afternoon!!! To make sure employees don't payuka payuka ovyo, I can threaten them, employ selectively, put employees on a bonus galore or a combination of sorts! Similar to what was done at Uchumi, eh? Exactly. Ciano and team were the CEO and managers yet they were also the main suppliers. Do you think they care when share price tanks? NO! Corporate Kenya is worse than GoK. Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,301 Location: kenya
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MaichBlack wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:target1360 wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Why would James Mworia (& CK) have bought Centum shares in the 60s [or so he says] if he knew about the drama?
Naikuni/Mbugua stayed away from KQ shares coz they knew about the rot.
Mworia has much more to lose with his investment in Centum at the 60-ish entry price. maybe we should ask where the money to buy at sh 60 came from,just maybe Likely came from the bonus pool. being a large shareholder and having board seats often means that you are likely to benefit from skewed company deals that other shareholders know nothing about. remember the CMC guy Peter Muthoka and Andy Forwarder's deal? Andy Forwarders supposedly overcharged CMC by 1.5 billion because Peter was part of the board and could direct contracts to his company. This is the kind of stuff ordinary shareholders never know about. Don't compare yourself with significant shareholders and insiders if you're not sure about the backroom board deals. Peter Muthoka had voting clout [20% or so shareholding] on the board. His 'loss' on his 20% was adequately covered by the shady deals. The guy with the most to lose in Centum is CK with 25-30% if anyone else does anything fishy. @vvs - You are very familiar with Merali deals. This is how these things work. I set up company A which is publicly traded in the NSE. I sell all of you shares but I retain controlling shares (Like 30%). Unknown to you, I have companies B, C, D and E where the shareholding is me my wife, kids and girlfriends. Through my influence, companies B, C, D and E are awarded contracts by A which are extremely skewed in their favour. In due course we all lose money in company A only that the money has been "lost" to my companies! I cry with you in the morning then go celebrate with my wife and kids in the afternoon!!! To make sure employees don't payuka payuka ovyo, I can threaten them, employ selectively, put employees on a bonus galore or a combination of sorts! @maichblack this is true. I have thought through what you have stated and it makes a lot sense. so the small companies offering contracts can get good returns than the share value that someone has.so his stake in that company is just for "face mask. sad sad
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