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Madaga.. An example of failed state
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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PeterReborn wrote:Kratos wrote:Alba wrote:Kenyans are an interesting bunch. To most Kenyans, Having a member of your tribe in power is more important than addressing issues like crime, heavy traffic, poor health facilities, poor security etc.
When you mention that Kenya's penchant for tribal voting is a cancer, the tribalism apologists like petereborn, murchr, kratos and others will quickly attack you and justify Kenya's tribal voting by pointing to other countries.
Its like saying my neighbour drinks poison so why can't I ?
Imagine your child coming home saying: "My friends cross the street without looking so why can't I"?
Thats what the tribalism apologists on wazua do. As sad as the issue is, you have a very narrow focus on real issues. There is nothing personal that any politician from any divide would have done to prevent Madaga's situation from happening other than the medical staff and administration at KNH. You keep barking about tribalism, whilst its a genuine concern IT IS NOT THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL PROBLEMS! Read the stories below and tell me how TRIBALISM influenced it. Quote: Texas Man Dies After Waiting 16 Hours for Treatment in ER Simon Gutierrez,
SAN ANTONIO --
A spokeswoman for University Hospital has confirmed a man who witnesses say waited close to 16 hours in the emergency room died Tuesday morning.
Alfred Garza, who said he spoke to the man while also awaiting treatment, said the man was in obvious pain and told him he had been waiting in the ER since 8:00 a.m. Monday.
Garza said he noticed the man in distress at about midnight and asked a nurse to check his vital signs.
"She stood up and went and talked to another nurse, and they just stood at the window and looked at him," said Garza.
Garza said he sat next to the man a half-hour later and noticed he appeared to have stopped breathing. This time, he said he was able to get a nurse to attend to him. Quote:Reports have emerged that a man died in a hospital waiting room in New York City more than eight hours after he sought emergency care.
According to multiple reports, 30-year-old John Verrier entered the emergency room of St. Barnabas Hospital in the Bronx at around 10 p.m. on Jan. 12 complaining about a rash. He was found dead in the waiting room about 6:40 a.m. the next day when a guard failed to wake him up.
St. Barnabas Hospital spokesperson Steve Clark confirmed the timeline around Verrier's death to CBS News, but said the details of what actually happened had been glossed over by many.
“Probably this scenario in this shape and form has happened in any big hospital in New York City,” he said. Quote:Family of man who died waiting in ER can sue, court rules
WINNIPEG -- Manitoba's highest court has ruled that the family of a man who died during a 34-hour hospital emergency room wait can sue the health authority for a breach of charter and privacy rights.
Lower courts struck out the heart of the lawsuit filed by the family of Brian Sinclair, ruling his loved ones couldn't sue because those rights died with him in 2008. Lawyers for Sinclair's family argued it was absurd that the family of a man who died because he didn't receive proper care couldn't sue because he was dead. The reason I have randomly quoted stories from the internet is because your tired one line narrative that tribalism is to blame for all our problems and that people like me (as if you personally know me) are responsible is as lame as they come. If you do not want to be challenged on the validity of your arguments its better you keep to your arm chair analysis of Kenyan football where you think Nyamweya is the problem.  I have absolutely nothing else to add.I refuse to engage myself with shallow minded fellows who blames Uhuru or Raila when they cant get an erection.We need to address the specific issues and provide specific solutions. We can start by having Kidero give us a detailed account of how he has spent the county billions meant for healthcare. I see other governors buying dialysis machines, incubators, ambulances etc for their county hospitals. Can kidero give us an inventory of all equipment bought since 2013. Also which hospitals received the said equipment. And how many county hospitals are there in each constituency Also how many doctors, nurses have been hired or are under payroll. Nairobians shouldnt be spending billions visiting private clinics and quacks while kidero is sitting on healthcare billions meant for them. Why should nairobians be visiting Machakos, Thika, Kiambu, kajiado etc county hospitals for treatment, when nairobi receives more money than those counties?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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murchr wrote:hardwood wrote:What has Kidero done with the billions allocated to Nairobi each year? Each year he gets billions for healthcare. So which county hospital are nairobians supposed to go to when they get sick? And dont say Kenyatta coz that is a national referral hospital.
What does he do with the billions allocated to run county hospitals? Mama Lucy, Mbagathi, the list is here but none of these is worth its salt. They all need an upgrade He should be using the billions he gets each year to upgrade them just like mutua and other governors have done in their areas. County hospitals in nairobi should be model hospitals where other countys can learn from. BTW did kidero receive the hitech equipment that was being leased to counties, and which county hospitals received the equip?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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There are so many ways to make hospitals efficient and paying doctors and nurses "adequately" is on the bottom of the list. Healthcare in India is a success yet the doctors there are paid on the same payscale as Kenyans. The poor health status has to do with culture first and Education. On culture...the Kenyan attitude is "what is there for me" We careless about life. Very few docs will care to research and give you a proper diagnosis. For instance when you go to a doc, you will tell him what you feel and trust me if you tell him,...." I think I have Malaria" he will give you a malaria test and prescription. That is the main reason why there's a high rate of mis-diagnosis. Secondly, our docs like every other Kenyans are thieves. If you care to go to their clinics in town, you'll find them using stuff marked MOH from bed-sheets to equipment. How many times have you come across some drugs marked "NOT FOR SALE" and "GOK"? They will make sure the x-ray machine in the hospital is not working so that they can refer you to their labs..so when we criticize politicians we should also blame ourselves to an extend. For government hospitals to run efficiently, they will have to automate...and am sure this would get the highest resistance but there's no two ways about it. All hospitals will need to be connected to a P2P system.( Welcome Alma.. )I find it rather absurd that hospitals procure drugs in anticipation that people will eventually get sick. How do you put a measure to how many people will suffer from cholera? Am not saying that there should be no drugs but it can be done more efficiently taking away pilferage if not minimizing it. Devolving healthcare was the best decision ever made...thats a discussion for another day. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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hardwood wrote:murchr wrote:hardwood wrote:What has Kidero done with the billions allocated to Nairobi each year? Each year he gets billions for healthcare. So which county hospital are nairobians supposed to go to when they get sick? And dont say Kenyatta coz that is a national referral hospital.
What does he do with the billions allocated to run county hospitals? Mama Lucy, Mbagathi, the list is here but none of these is worth its salt. They all need an upgrade He should be using the billions he gets each year to upgrade them just like mutua and other governors have done in their areas. County hospitals in nairobi should be model hospitals where other countys can learn from. BTW did kidero receive the hitech equipment that was being leased to counties, and which county hospitals received the equip? Go to his FB page...iko picha or the governor thread here "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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Quote:The organisations including the Health NGOs Network have also asked MPs to “accelerate” and pass the draft Health Bill 2014 currently in Parliament.
They say among other things, the Bill states that private and public hospitals have an obligation to provide emergency services and liable to pay a fine of up to Sh3 million should they fail to do so.
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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murchr wrote:There are so many ways to make hospitals efficient and paying doctors and nurses "adequately" is on the bottom of the list. Healthcare in India is a success yet the doctors there are paid on the same payscale as Kenyans. The poor health status has to do with culture first and Education.On culture...the Kenyan attitude is "what is there for me" We careless about life. Very few docs will care to research and give you a proper diagnosis. For instance when you go to a doc, you will tell him what you feel and trust me if you tell him,...." I think I have Malaria" he will give you a malaria test and prescription. That is the main reason why there's a high rate of mis-diagnosis. Secondly, our docs like every other Kenyans are thieves. If you care to go to their clinics in town, you'll find them using stuff marked MOH from bed-sheets to equipment. How many times have you come across some drugs marked "NOT FOR SALE" and "GOK"? They will make sure the x-ray machine in the hospital is not working so that they can refer you to their labs..so when we criticize politicians we should also blame ourselves to an extend. For government hospitals to run efficiently, they will have to automate...and am sure this would get the highest resistance but there's no two ways about it. All hospitals will need to be connected to a P2P system.( Welcome Alma.. )I find it rather absurd that hospitals procure drugs in anticipation that people will eventually get sick. How do you put a measure to how many people will suffer from cholera? Am not saying that there should be no drugs but it can be done more efficiently taking away pilferage if not minimizing it. Devolving healthcare was the best decision ever made...thats a discussion for another day. kwani how many doctors do we have in kenya, leave alone in the public sector. India has many docs, and they are mostly focused in the urban areas. In the rural India things are thick. Its like visiting agha khan and nairobi hospital then passing through Machakos and thika level5 and declaring kenya has the best health care system.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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dunkang wrote:
Boss, the way you push this "tribalism" agenda makes you sound more like a sour loser and a bigger tribalist than a "concerned citizen".
From FKF elections to Mama Mboga's bundle of Sukuma Wiki to everything under the sun, its tribalism, tribalism, tribalism.
With you tribalism paranoia, I can surely bet that you always buy from and sell to your tribesmen.
You tribalism defenders never cease to amaze me with your twisted logic. Tribalism is Kenya's biggest cancer and has been since we became independent. And you lot come up with every twisted excuse to defend it. Secondly I do not live in Kenya and rarely meet other Kenyans so the idea that I only buy from Kenyans is bogus. In fact living overseas and seeing people vote on issues and thus getting those issues addressed is what made me see how silly Kenyans are. You saw Kenyans turn on each other with matchetes in 2008, you saw businesses burned down, you see incompetent clowns running the country down, you see thieves looting the treasury all driven by tribalism and you still think tribalism is not an issue. This is beyond laughable.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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murchr wrote:There are so many ways to make hospitals efficient and paying doctors and nurses "adequately" is on the bottom of the list. Healthcare in India is a success yet the doctors there are paid on the same payscale as Kenyans. The poor health status has to do with culture first and Education. On culture...the Kenyan attitude is "what is there for me" We careless about life. Very few docs will care to research and give you a proper diagnosis. For instance when you go to a doc, you will tell him what you feel and trust me if you tell him,...." I think I have Malaria" he will give you a malaria test and prescription. That is the main reason why there's a high rate of mis-diagnosis. Secondly, our docs like every other Kenyans are thieves. If you care to go to their clinics in town, you'll find them using stuff marked MOH from bed-sheets to equipment. How many times have you come across some drugs marked "NOT FOR SALE" and "GOK"? They will make sure the x-ray machine in the hospital is not working so that they can refer you to their labs..so when we criticize politicians we should also blame ourselves to an extend. For government hospitals to run efficiently, they will have to automate...and am sure this would get the highest resistance but there's no two ways about it. All hospitals will need to be connected to a P2P system.( Welcome Alma.. )I find it rather absurd that hospitals procure drugs in anticipation that people will eventually get sick. How do you put a measure to how many people will suffer from cholera? Am not saying that there should be no drugs but it can be done more efficiently taking away pilferage if not minimizing it. Devolving healthcare was the best decision ever made...thats a discussion for another day. Couldn't agree more.We went for a needs analysis meeting in our of our public hospitals and the resistance we got was out of this world.The employs run parallel systems and most of them are manual.They have manual receipts and there is no system to manage issuance of receipt and issue of medicines.They gave us some ridiculous requirement to derail the process and you could tell they are prepared to do whatever it takes not to automate the processes.What is required is political will by the top management to automate the processes if we are to reduce wastage and manage the eating. Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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Alba wrote:dunkang wrote:
Boss, the way you push this "tribalism" agenda makes you sound more like a sour loser and a bigger tribalist than a "concerned citizen".
From FKF elections to Mama Mboga's bundle of Sukuma Wiki to everything under the sun, its tribalism, tribalism, tribalism.
With you tribalism paranoia, I can surely bet that you always buy from and sell to your tribesmen.
You tribalism defenders never cease to amaze me with your twisted logic. Tribalism is Kenya's biggest cancer and has been since we became independent. And you lot come up with every twisted excuse to defend it. Secondly I do not live in Kenya and rarely meet other Kenyans so the idea that I only buy from Kenyans is bogus. In fact living overseas and seeing people vote on issues and thus getting those issues addressed is what made me see how silly Kenyans are. You saw Kenyans turn on each other with matchetes in 2008, you saw businesses burned down, you see incompetent clowns running the country down, you see thieves looting the treasury all driven by tribalism and you still think tribalism is not an issue. This is beyond laughable. So, you even don't live in Kenya. That explains a lot. Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Alba wrote:dunkang wrote:
Boss, the way you push this "tribalism" agenda makes you sound more like a sour loser and a bigger tribalist than a "concerned citizen".
From FKF elections to Mama Mboga's bundle of Sukuma Wiki to everything under the sun, its tribalism, tribalism, tribalism.
With you tribalism paranoia, I can surely bet that you always buy from and sell to your tribesmen.
You tribalism defenders never cease to amaze me with your twisted logic. Tribalism is Kenya's biggest cancer and has been since we became independent. And you lot come up with every twisted excuse to defend it. Secondly I do not live in Kenya and rarely meet other Kenyans so the idea that I only buy from Kenyans is bogus. In fact living overseas and seeing people vote on issues and thus getting those issues addressed is what made me see how silly Kenyans are. You saw Kenyans turn on each other with matchetes in 2008, you saw businesses burned down, you see incompetent clowns running the country down, you see thieves looting the treasury all driven by tribalism and you still think tribalism is not an issue. This is beyond laughable. explains the Antics - very characteristic of diaspora KenyansAll Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 12/18/2012 Posts: 94
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I have two questions...
1. Doesn't the ambulance call ahead to find a bed before they transport the patient to a hospital only to be turned away?
2. Don't hospitals have Emergency units that can stabilize a patient while an ICU bed is located?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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@tara, questions to ponder.... LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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Tara wrote:I have two questions...
1. Doesn't the ambulance call ahead to find a bed before they transport the patient to a hospital only to be turned away?
2. Don't hospitals have Emergency units that can stabilize a patient while an ICU bed is located? such questions are not allowed on this forum you should ask 1. why has uhuru failed 2. is raila the reason ambulances don't work when you ask questions like yours, we know you are a fixer. too much thinking on our part will make us zoombies Welcome Officially to wazua. Where we'd rather buy stocks than think of our stupidity. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2014 Posts: 231
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Tara wrote:I have two questions...
1. Doesn't the ambulance call ahead to find a bed before they transport the patient to a hospital only to be turned away?
2. Don't hospitals have Emergency units that can stabilize a patient while an ICU bed is located? 1. Yes they do call. FYI only. KNH cannot decline a patient whose care can only be provided at KNH. All referrals are received at A&E (Casualty) and then admitted (if a bed is available). In the counties, they often do not call. You'll be woken up at 3am by a referral from Matuu District Hospital (often a pregnant mother from Ekalakala with a ruptured uterus). 2. A&E exists at KNH but cannot offer ICU level care. Usually for patients on short observations e.g. sugar management in known diabetics. In the counties, well equipped A&E do not exist at all. "Occasionally I drop a tea cup to shatter on the floor. On purpose. I am not satisfied when it does not gather itself up again. Someday perhaps that cup will come together."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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alma1 wrote:Tara wrote:I have two questions...
1. Doesn't the ambulance call ahead to find a bed before they transport the patient to a hospital only to be turned away?
2. Don't hospitals have Emergency units that can stabilize a patient while an ICU bed is located? such questions are not allowed on this forum you should ask 1. why has uhuru failed 2. is raila the reason ambulances don't work when you ask questions like yours, we know you are a fixer. too much thinking on our part will make us zoombies Welcome Officially to wazua. Where we'd rather buy stocks than think of our stupidity. ALA!  "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 12/18/2012 Posts: 94
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Bykhovets wrote:Tara wrote:I have two questions...
1. Doesn't the ambulance call ahead to find a bed before they transport the patient to a hospital only to be turned away?
2. Don't hospitals have Emergency units that can stabilize a patient while an ICU bed is located? 1. Yes they do call. FYI only. KNH cannot decline a patient whose care can only be provided at KNH. All referrals are received at A&E (Casualty) and then admitted (if a bed is available). In the counties, they often do not call. You'll be woken up at 3am by a referral from Matuu District Hospital (often a pregnant mother from Ekalakala with a ruptured uterus). 2. A&E exists at KNH but cannot offer ICU level care. Usually for patients on short observations e.g. sugar management in known diabetics. In the counties, well equipped A&E do not exist at all. So KNH has a limited number of beds (did I see 21?) So if there was lets say a plane crash in Nairobi and 250 critically injured people needed to be admitted to ICU, where would they go?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,979
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Tara wrote:Bykhovets wrote:Tara wrote:I have two questions...
1. Doesn't the ambulance call ahead to find a bed before they transport the patient to a hospital only to be turned away?
2. Don't hospitals have Emergency units that can stabilize a patient while an ICU bed is located? 1. Yes they do call. FYI only. KNH cannot decline a patient whose care can only be provided at KNH. All referrals are received at A&E (Casualty) and then admitted (if a bed is available). In the counties, they often do not call. You'll be woken up at 3am by a referral from Matuu District Hospital (often a pregnant mother from Ekalakala with a ruptured uterus). 2. A&E exists at KNH but cannot offer ICU level care. Usually for patients on short observations e.g. sugar management in known diabetics. In the counties, well equipped A&E do not exist at all. So KNH has a limited number of beds (did I see 21?) So if there was lets say a plane crash in Nairobi and 250 critically injured people needed to be admitted to ICU, where would they go? God forbid some Nrb Hosp, others Agakhan, Karen, etc...but the majority would D.I.E. Sad, but true.... "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 2,849 Location: Rupi
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Tara wrote:Bykhovets wrote:Tara wrote:I have two questions...
1. Doesn't the ambulance call ahead to find a bed before they transport the patient to a hospital only to be turned away?
2. Don't hospitals have Emergency units that can stabilize a patient while an ICU bed is located? 1. Yes they do call. FYI only. KNH cannot decline a patient whose care can only be provided at KNH. All referrals are received at A&E (Casualty) and then admitted (if a bed is available). In the counties, they often do not call. You'll be woken up at 3am by a referral from Matuu District Hospital (often a pregnant mother from Ekalakala with a ruptured uterus). 2. A&E exists at KNH but cannot offer ICU level care. Usually for patients on short observations e.g. sugar management in known diabetics. In the counties, well equipped A&E do not exist at all. So KNH has a limited number of beds (did I see 21?) So if there was lets say a plane crash in Nairobi and 250 critically injured people needed to be admitted to ICU, where would they go? 21 beds for the largest referral hospital in the region SMH Lord, thank you!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Euge wrote:Tara wrote:Bykhovets wrote:Tara wrote:I have two questions...
1. Doesn't the ambulance call ahead to find a bed before they transport the patient to a hospital only to be turned away?
2. Don't hospitals have Emergency units that can stabilize a patient while an ICU bed is located? 1. Yes they do call. FYI only. KNH cannot decline a patient whose care can only be provided at KNH. All referrals are received at A&E (Casualty) and then admitted (if a bed is available). In the counties, they often do not call. You'll be woken up at 3am by a referral from Matuu District Hospital (often a pregnant mother from Ekalakala with a ruptured uterus). 2. A&E exists at KNH but cannot offer ICU level care. Usually for patients on short observations e.g. sugar management in known diabetics. In the counties, well equipped A&E do not exist at all. So KNH has a limited number of beds (did I see 21?) So if there was lets say a plane crash in Nairobi and 250 critically injured people needed to be admitted to ICU, where would they go? 21 beds for the largest referral hospital in the region SMH Thats Kenya for you.... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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The main problem is not the tribalism or the corruption.It is the middle class who just sit and yap as the garment is raping them and not offering any tangible solutions to this country. We have private cars for public transport problems,medical covers for the public hospital problems and private schools for the public education problems.We pay most of the taxes and sit here and do nothing. We have very brilliant minds in this forum why not put those minds in use and involve ourselves in leadership. There is a thread on Wazuans interested in politics but seems only Mawinder will be our next MP. We need to walk the talk and be part of the solution. Consistency is better than intensity
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