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ArtCaffe - The Racist Hotel at it Again
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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Impunity wrote:Wendz wrote:masukuma wrote:This matter is serious and what sickens me most is that people accept and rationalise being dictated to about their place in ecosystem... in their own effing country! Ni kama mgeni akuje kwako aanze kukupatia masharti... priss. ama munangoja ile "nyumba" and "shoe" muliambiliwa kwa "I got Shoes"? Mimi huwa natafuta these oppotunities za kufanyiwa tumadharau kwetu.... kama kwao siitikii kufanyiwa tu madharau bila kuongea ni kwetu? Can there be a better reason to land in Jail than that? Reminds me of a story about some white woman who was at Nakumatt Junction and the child was innocently smiling and laughing with a local child and then the white woman scolded the child aloud saying "how many times must I tell you not to play and talk with Niggas?".... and??????? huh!! I hope the parent to the black kid did something.... she's so damn lucky it wasn't my kid... She'd board the next flight out of here... Reminds me of one time I went to Village Market and paid for my son to play, and some are they white or pick by the way? kids started shoving him around to get out...... ooooooh.... how I stormed that play pen.... and I looked forward to those pink mothers and fathers to come say one word! They'd never seen such mother hen. For me, that's a totally no go zone irrespective of who you are..... Siwezi. And what is wrong being called a nigga? You will always remain nyeuthi in color even if they called you mweupe kama RAO (pun for pamaba)! I wouldn't want to be white or whatever its called for the life of me, and am proud to be called African. me and you know what nigga means and we cant even pretend to believe it means "African" in a nice way. Call me black, it is alright. I am and I am happy with it. but just don't use derogatory words on me, that's all.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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I think that it's similar to being called kihii... Innocent and jocular when a father refers to his son. Nasty when Moses kuria uses it to "put Raila in his place" All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2014 Posts: 231
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Wendz wrote:Impunity wrote:Wendz wrote:masukuma wrote:This matter is serious and what sickens me most is that people accept and rationalise being dictated to about their place in ecosystem... in their own effing country! Ni kama mgeni akuje kwako aanze kukupatia masharti... priss. ama munangoja ile "nyumba" and "shoe" muliambiliwa kwa "I got Shoes"? Mimi huwa natafuta these oppotunities za kufanyiwa tumadharau kwetu.... kama kwao siitikii kufanyiwa tu madharau bila kuongea ni kwetu? Can there be a better reason to land in Jail than that? Reminds me of a story about some white woman who was at Nakumatt Junction and the child was innocently smiling and laughing with a local child and then the white woman scolded the child aloud saying "how many times must I tell you not to play and talk with Niggas?".... and??????? huh!! I hope the parent to the black kid did something.... she's so damn lucky it wasn't my kid... She'd board the next flight out of here... Reminds me of one time I went to Village Market and paid for my son to play, and some are they white or pick by the way? kids started shoving him around to get out...... ooooooh.... how I stormed that play pen.... and I looked forward to those pink mothers and fathers to come say one word! They'd never seen such mother hen. For me, that's a totally no go zone irrespective of who you are..... Siwezi. And what is wrong being called a nigga? You will always remain nyeuthi in color even if they called you mweupe kama RAO (pun for pamaba)! I wouldn't want to be white or whatever its called for the life of me, and am proud to be called African. me and you know what nigga means and we cant even pretend to believe it means "African" in a nice way. Call me black, it is alright. I am and I am happy with it. but just don't use derogatory words on me, that's all. @Impunity, heshimu @Wendz tafadhali. Be polite and put your opinions across in a less abrasive manner. "Occasionally I drop a tea cup to shatter on the floor. On purpose. I am not satisfied when it does not gather itself up again. Someday perhaps that cup will come together."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,325 Location: Masada
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Bykhovets wrote:Wendz wrote:Impunity wrote:Wendz wrote:masukuma wrote:This matter is serious and what sickens me most is that people accept and rationalise being dictated to about their place in ecosystem... in their own effing country! Ni kama mgeni akuje kwako aanze kukupatia masharti... priss. ama munangoja ile "nyumba" and "shoe" muliambiliwa kwa "I got Shoes"? Mimi huwa natafuta these oppotunities za kufanyiwa tumadharau kwetu.... kama kwao siitikii kufanyiwa tu madharau bila kuongea ni kwetu? Can there be a better reason to land in Jail than that? Reminds me of a story about some white woman who was at Nakumatt Junction and the child was innocently smiling and laughing with a local child and then the white woman scolded the child aloud saying "how many times must I tell you not to play and talk with Niggas?".... and??????? huh!! I hope the parent to the black kid did something.... she's so damn lucky it wasn't my kid... She'd board the next flight out of here... Reminds me of one time I went to Village Market and paid for my son to play, and some are they white or pick by the way? kids started shoving him around to get out...... ooooooh.... how I stormed that play pen.... and I looked forward to those pink mothers and fathers to come say one word! They'd never seen such mother hen. For me, that's a totally no go zone irrespective of who you are..... Siwezi. And what is wrong being called a nigga? You will always remain nyeuthi in color even if they called you mweupe kama RAO (pun for pamaba)! I wouldn't want to be white or whatever its called for the life of me, and am proud to be called African. me and you know what nigga means and we cant even pretend to believe it means "African" in a nice way. Call me black, it is alright. I am and I am happy with it. but just don't use derogatory words on me, that's all. @Impunity, heshimu @Wendz tafadhali. Be polite and put your opinions across in a less abrasive manner. Yeye ni nyeuthi kama used oil from Bulldozer, hata akikuwa marinated with Jik overnight. To be called Nogga is more or less the way we call wazungus "pua refu". Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Time to be coldly objective and logical .....The truth is, if you sued ArtCaffe for racism and/or discrimination, you wouldn't succeed. They do not bar you at the door neither is it a criminal offense for workers of an establishment to ignore you. So you stroll in, sit, and perhaps 35 minutes down the line a waiter will take your order, leave you to steam for another 45 minutes before your order is delivered. You will shout yourself hoarse about the ignominy of it all, but no crime done, not one you can prove in any court on this land anyway. If you were foolish enough to try, the case would be easily swatted away with simple defenses such as these "being hard economic times and therefore not enough for personnel to provide the service you would like".
What people experience here is contempt, discourtesy and disrespect. For these slights, there is no recourse, other than to take your money elsewhere and bitch in social media; and social media bitching clearly appears not to have any effect. Business at ArtCaffe continues apace. It is OK to complain and make others aware of your plight, but visiting repeatedly is a sign of a weak internal constitution. Mistreatment of customers is a widespread thing in Kenya - and it is not based on race only. But we find fiery voices only if there are links to white ownership/management which I find amusing. We are slaves to trends and fashion, so much that we insist on giving money to businesses that insult and humiliate us so as to be 'with it'. Just don't go to ArtCaffe. Have some self-respect. You may have money but those people don't want your money, why humiliate yourself?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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quicksand wrote:Time to be coldly objective and logical .....The truth is, if you sued ArtCaffe for racism and/or discrimination, you wouldn't succeed. They do not bar you at the door neither is it a criminal offense for workers of an establishment to ignore you. So you stroll in, sit, and perhaps 35 minutes down the line a waiter will take your order, leave you to steam for another 45 minutes before your order is delivered. You will shout yourself hoarse about the ignominy of it all, but no crime done, not one you can prove in any court on this land anyway. If you were foolish enough to try, the case would be easily swatted away with simple defenses such as these "being hard economic times and therefore not enough for personnel to provide the service you would like".
What people experience here is contempt, discourtesy and disrespect. For these slights, there is no recourse, other than to take your money elsewhere and bitch in social media; and social media bitching clearly appears not to have any effect. Business at ArtCaffe continues apace. It is OK to complain and make others aware of your plight, but visiting repeatedly is a sign of a weak internal constitution. Mistreatment of customers is a widespread thing in Kenya - and it is not based on race only. But we find fiery voices only if there are links to white ownership/management which I find amusing. We are slaves to trends and fashion, so much that we insist on giving money to businesses that insult and humiliate us so as to be 'with it'. Just don't go to ArtCaffe. Have some self-respect. You may have money but those people don't want your money, why humiliate yourself?
Tell this to @Masukuma, and he will call you a "kiguoya". Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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dunkang wrote:quicksand wrote:Time to be coldly objective and logical .....The truth is, if you sued ArtCaffe for racism and/or discrimination, you wouldn't succeed. They do not bar you at the door neither is it a criminal offense for workers of an establishment to ignore you. So you stroll in, sit, and perhaps 35 minutes down the line a waiter will take your order, leave you to steam for another 45 minutes before your order is delivered. You will shout yourself hoarse about the ignominy of it all, but no crime done, not one you can prove in any court on this land anyway. If you were foolish enough to try, the case would be easily swatted away with simple defenses such as these "being hard economic times and therefore not enough for personnel to provide the service you would like".
What people experience here is contempt, discourtesy and disrespect. For these slights, there is no recourse, other than to take your money elsewhere and bitch in social media; and social media bitching clearly appears not to have any effect. Business at ArtCaffe continues apace. It is OK to complain and make others aware of your plight, but visiting repeatedly is a sign of a weak internal constitution. Mistreatment of customers is a widespread thing in Kenya - and it is not based on race only. But we find fiery voices only if there are links to white ownership/management which I find amusing. We are slaves to trends and fashion, so much that we insist on giving money to businesses that insult and humiliate us so as to be 'with it'. Just don't go to ArtCaffe. Have some self-respect. You may have money but those people don't want your money, why humiliate yourself?
Tell this to @Masukuma, and he will call you a "kiguoya". of course we will never agree on this - you have been trained... you know your place... good for you! I have not.... All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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@masukuma and @wendz, it's not that we are cowards who have been conditioned to know our place in the pecking order. We just know which fights are worth fighting and this is not one of them. Everyone seems to agree that the nyeuthi is at the bottom of the food chain. The nyeuthi hardly disappoints and has proven over and over that indeed that is where he belongs. @quicksand,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:@masukuma and @wendz, it's not that we are cowards who have been conditioned to know our place in the pecking order. We just know which fights are worth fighting and this is not one of them. Everyone seems to agree that the nyeuthi is at the bottom of the food chain. The nyeuthi hardly disappoints and has proven over and over that indeed that is where he belongs. @quicksand, yeah....i guess we are the naive ones! good for you! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
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Another question we have to ask is... does this tipping culture even have a place in Kenya? In the west, restaurants are heavily regulated, which shrinks their margins and they struggle to stay afloat, so patrons use tipping as a way of chipping in for the staff welfare, since the restaurant usually can't afford to pay much.
But here in Kenya these high end restaurants are making money hand over fist, why should patrons feel the need of tipping in such a case when the company is very capable of paying better?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,901
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Wendz wrote:muganda wrote:Tokyo wrote:The worst racists are negros in Africa especially in places having different races. Agreed. Time to avoid escapist scapegoats. Also a factor as to why black slaves were numerous: because the culture of enslaving/selling losing war tribes for profit was already rife. Good observation. So, what would you advise of someone who experiences racism whether from the fellow Africans, coloreds, white etc? Should they accept and move on because the Africans are the worst racists? No one should accept racism from anyone, whatsoever unless you are in an officially restricted area and hence breaking the law by trespassing. I first read this in Wazua somewhere, and caught up with the book later, about a Jewish prisoner of war at a Nazi concentration camp. He learnt, with nothing left to live for, save for the 'meaning of life', that German masters were not necessarily bad nor Jewish prisoners automatically good. And surmised: The are two races of men in this world, the 'race' of the decent man and the 'race' of the indecent man. Viktor Frankl
The answer in my view is decency: - it is decent for a Guest to leave a generous tip for a waiter who has a back-breaking shift in a tough job - it is decent for a Waiter to serve even the most difficult guest well regardless of appreciation - it is decent for a Guest to overlook a slight when it comes from a young prejudiced waiter - it is decent for a Waiter to accept correction when they realise their bias
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 12/18/2012 Posts: 94
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Why do people keep trying to force ArtCaffe to take their money yet they don't want it? I am sure there are other nice places in Nairobi that will take that money and treat you well. Also tipping is also nice
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/25/2015 Posts: 839 Location: Kite
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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Tara wrote:Why do people keep trying to force ArtCaffe to take their money yet they don't want it? I am sure there are other nice places in Nairobi that will take that money and treat you well. Also tipping is also nice You should be asking @Masukuma that. That is the same same question every sober thinker is asking on this Artcaffe saga. Tipping should be outlawed, BTW. Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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mnaendanga huko kufanya nini? LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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kyt wrote:mnaendanga huko kufanya nini? coz we can! is that a good enough answer? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 395 Location: Where everyone knows you
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Mike Ock wrote:Another question we have to ask is... does this tipping culture even have a place in Kenya? In the west, restaurants are heavily regulated, which shrinks their margins and they struggle to stay afloat, so patrons use tipping as a way of chipping in for the staff welfare, since the restaurant usually can't afford to pay much.
But here in Kenya these high end restaurants are making money hand over fist, why should patrons feel the need of tipping in such a case when the company is very capable of paying better? Good question. When I went to Uni in the US in 1970 ( Yes I am old )I had to work to support myself.Of all the jobs available, the best ones were in bars & restaurants. I found a job in a place that had a lot of international guests.This was GREAT, as Americans did not have a clue about the outside world. I worked for NO pay, just tips - and I was clearing about $20 per night after expenses. I got extra tips as I could relate to most of the international guests,and talk about soccer, cricket, rugby etc. which my fellow workers had no idea about.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 12/18/2012 Posts: 94
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dunkang wrote:Tara wrote:Why do people keep trying to force ArtCaffe to take their money yet they don't want it? I am sure there are other nice places in Nairobi that will take that money and treat you well. Also tipping is also nice You should be asking @Masukuma that. That is the same same question every sober thinker is asking on this Artcaffe saga. Tipping should be outlawed, BTW. Tipping should only be outlawed when those people start making a livable wage. Of course you tip when you feel service was deserving (I know that's subjective). I have worked that kind of a job as s student huku kwa kina kiash and knew that I had to provide tiptop service with a smile to get that tip. If I brought my domez to work I'd not get tips which would supplement my income and could be used for necessary things like bus passes or gas for the car. A tip for that person serving you does not translate to a few beers or a movie on the weekend.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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there are hotels that discourage tipping simply because we only see one end of the whole cycle that is responsible for making that lovely dish. There are kitchen staff as well in the mix. I think that is why some have introduced a service charge that will be gawanywad to all staff at the end of the year - this makes sense. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/21/2008 Posts: 2,490
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masukuma wrote:kyt wrote:mnaendanga huko kufanya nini? coz we can! is that a good enough answer? Then stop complaining when you are treated like a 2nd Generation citizen The man who marries a beautiful woman, and the farmer who grows corn by the roadside have the same problem
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