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Motion on 50% salary reduction
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Man has to identify himself to something either if not race, or religion then its tribe. Our tribes are our identity...period You can never wish that away. Esp not in a country where everything is "tribalized". "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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murchr wrote:Man has to identify himself to something either if not race, or religion then its tribe. Our tribes are our identity...period You can never wish that away. Esp not in a country where everything is "tribalized". There is a difference between identifying yourself with a tribe and voting entirely on tribal basis. Kenya is probably the worst country in this regard. I literally cannot think of any other country that is worse than Kenya in this regard. I challenge anyone to name one.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 6,029
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Alba wrote:murchr wrote:Man has to identify himself to something either if not race, or religion then its tribe. Our tribes are our identity...period You can never wish that away. Esp not in a country where everything is "tribalized". There is a difference between identifying yourself with a tribe and voting entirely on tribal basis. Kenya is probably the worst country in this regard. I literally cannot think of any other country that is worse than Kenya in this regard. I challenge anyone to name one. Uganda.Museveni stays in power because the other communities hate the Baganda who are the equivalent to Kikuyus in Kenya.Fyi, tribalism is most rampant as I put it earlier among Kikuyus, Kalenjins and Luos.The other communities like Maasai, Kisiis, Mijikenda, Luhyas, Teso, Somalis, Boranas etc are not that tribal.Shida ya Kenya is the Kalenjin and Luo trying to tame the Kikuyu who are perceived as very bad people by the 2 communities and they are always scheming of how to tame them.Moi tamed the Kikuyus, RAO is really struggling to get a chance to tame them too while the Kikuyu are really struggling to ensure the seat never leaves the mountain.The solution would be to carve for the mountaineers their own country!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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mawinder wrote:Alba wrote:murchr wrote:Man has to identify himself to something either if not race, or religion then its tribe. Our tribes are our identity...period You can never wish that away. Esp not in a country where everything is "tribalized". There is a difference between identifying yourself with a tribe and voting entirely on tribal basis. Kenya is probably the worst country in this regard. I literally cannot think of any other country that is worse than Kenya in this regard. I challenge anyone to name one. Uganda.Museveni stays in power because the other communities hate the Baganda who are the equivalent to Kikuyus in Kenya.Fyi, tribalism is most rampant as I put it earlier among Kikuyus, Kalenjins and Luos.The other communities like Maasai, Kisiis, Mijikenda, Luhyas, Teso, Somalis, Boranas etc are not that tribal.Shida ya Kenya is the Kalenjin and Luo trying to tame the Kikuyu who are perceived as very bad people by the 2 communities and they are always scheming of how to tame them. Moi tamed the Kikuyus, RAO is really struggling to get a chance to tame them too while the Kikuyu are really struggling to ensure the seat never leaves the mountain.The solution would be to carve for the mountaineers their own country!!!!!!!!!!!! Not true. He worked with them because he was smart enough to know they are "untamable". If anyone was tamed by Moi, it was nusu mkeka guy. i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 6,029
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harrydre wrote:mawinder wrote:Alba wrote:murchr wrote:Man has to identify himself to something either if not race, or religion then its tribe. Our tribes are our identity...period You can never wish that away. Esp not in a country where everything is "tribalized". There is a difference between identifying yourself with a tribe and voting entirely on tribal basis. Kenya is probably the worst country in this regard. I literally cannot think of any other country that is worse than Kenya in this regard. I challenge anyone to name one. Uganda.Museveni stays in power because the other communities hate the Baganda who are the equivalent to Kikuyus in Kenya.Fyi, tribalism is most rampant as I put it earlier among Kikuyus, Kalenjins and Luos.The other communities like Maasai, Kisiis, Mijikenda, Luhyas, Teso, Somalis, Boranas etc are not that tribal.Shida ya Kenya is the Kalenjin and Luo trying to tame the Kikuyu who are perceived as very bad people by the 2 communities and they are always scheming of how to tame them. Moi tamed the Kikuyus, RAO is really struggling to get a chance to tame them too while the Kikuyu are really struggling to ensure the seat never leaves the mountain.The solution would be to carve for the mountaineers their own country!!!!!!!!!!!! Not true. He worked with them because he was smart enough to know they are "untamable". If anyone was tamed by Moi, it was nusu mkeka guy.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:Man has to identify himself to something either if not race, or religion then its tribe. Our tribes are our identity...period You can never wish that away. Esp not in a country where everything is "tribalized". The tribe, the race, the herd. These are survival tools created and used by humanity. But the more order humans try to create, the more 'evil' is experienced. Progress is adapting to emergent changes. So the question is how these ethnic, social and cultural identities can adapt to present challenges. It's an anthropological question, but anthropologists are perhaps in their slumber, and politicians have nothing else to do but cling to the status quo. And when politicians show the way, the masses are inclined to follow, even in the so called 'model' or 'advanced' countries like our civilizer the Great Britain. http://www.theguardian.c...-reading-book-terrorism
http://www.theguardian.c...iranian-man-tells-police
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
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Alba wrote:murchr wrote:Man has to identify himself to something either if not race, or religion then its tribe. Our tribes are our identity...period You can never wish that away. Esp not in a country where everything is "tribalized". There is a difference between identifying yourself with a tribe and voting entirely on tribal basis. Kenya is probably the worst country in this regard. I literally cannot think of any other country that is worse than Kenya in this regard. I challenge anyone to name one. Using what criteria or tool do you come to the conclusion that Kenya is the "worst" country when it comes to ethnic voting? A simple google search will show you that a lot of countries have similar concerns. A few examples for you Zimbabwe Quote:It is feared that the fracturing of Zimbabwe’s political elite coupled with the electorate’s propensity for voting along ethnic lines and alleged history of electoral malpractice and conflict, that violence is likely to erupt. Angola Quote: The most potent element in the contest, however, could be the enduring power of regional and ethnic loyalities. And in this realm, too, the ruling power appears to have an edge.
The presumed political base of the Unita leader, Jonas Savimbi, is the mostly rural and agrarian central highlands, the region dominated by his ethnic group, the Ovimbundu South Africa Quote:Democratic elections in South Africa as party identification and voting preferences were very strongly held, reflecting polities highly polarized along ethnic, linguistic, cultural, ideological and regional lines And just for good measure let me throw in Bosnia Quote:Bosnian Serbs, Muslims and Croats voted mostly along ethnic party lines in a local election Sunday, keeping them in power some 13 years after the war, preliminary results showed early Monday. I could go on and on...Kenya is no different from any other country. We are not a special bunch anointed by anyone. Race and ethnicity are part of our nature as human beings. Unless something earth-shattering happens to change this phenomenon, the trend is more than likely to continue. Blacks in South Africa will vote black, the Yoruba will most likely vote one of their own, a muslim is most likely to be elected in a muslim dominated country, etc. So unless you have a "ethnicometer" that qualifies your statement, your argument is invalid.
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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mawinder wrote:Alba wrote:murchr wrote:Man has to identify himself to something either if not race, or religion then its tribe. Our tribes are our identity...period You can never wish that away. Esp not in a country where everything is "tribalized". There is a difference between identifying yourself with a tribe and voting entirely on tribal basis. Kenya is probably the worst country in this regard. I literally cannot think of any other country that is worse than Kenya in this regard. I challenge anyone to name one. Uganda.Museveni stays in power because the other communities hate the Baganda who are the equivalent to Kikuyus in Kenya.Fyi, tribalism is most rampant as I put it earlier among Kikuyus, Kalenjins and Luos.The other communities like Maasai, Kisiis, Mijikenda, Luhyas, Teso, Somalis, Boranas etc are not that tribal.Shida ya Kenya is the Kalenjin and Luo trying to tame the Kikuyu who are perceived as very bad people by the 2 communities and they are always scheming of how to tame them.Moi tamed the Kikuyus, RAO is really struggling to get a chance to tame them too while the Kikuyu are really struggling to ensure the seat never leaves the mountain.The solution would be to carve for the mountaineers their own country!!!!!!!!!!!! I disagree on all counts. Firstly the Baganda people overwhelmingly voted Museveni according to the Monitor newspaperI found this surprising because Besigye is a Baganda yet Museveni go twice as many votes has him in the Baganda region. With regard to Kenya, if you say that Kikuyus, Luos and kalenjin are the only tribal ones then how come no one votes on issues? If you statement is right then The other tribes should rise up and choose an issue based candidate. It does not happen. Kambas for example have followed Kalonzo for the last 2 elections. And before that it was Ngilu. In the 1990ss core Luhyas followed Shikuku while Bukusu followed Wamalwa. Maragoli followed Mudavadi and so forth. Kenyans tribes are all voting as a bloc. Thats why no issue oriented candidate can win. This is our cancer. Thats why our country is such a mess. No president will bother fixing issues unless Kenyans become issue oriented and vote based on performance.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Kratos wrote:
I could go on and on...Kenya is no different from any other country. We are not a special bunch anointed by anyone. Race and ethnicity are part of our nature as human beings. Unless something earth-shattering happens to change this phenomenon, the trend is more than likely to continue. Blacks in South Africa will vote black, the Yoruba will most likely vote one of their own, a muslim is most likely to be elected in a muslim dominated country, etc.
So unless you have a "ethnicometer" that qualifies your statement, your argument is invalid.
Your examples are invalid 1. Zimbabwe: The Shona form 82% of the population. So the notion of voting along tribal lines does not arise. Mugabe's primary opposition has been his fellow Shona like Tsvangirai 2. Angola: You referenced a civil war which ended decades ago. Elections in Angola today are not as tribal as you are suggesting. Results suggest that Dos Santos received 74% of the vote. There is no evidence that the vote eas tribal 3. You mentioned Bosnia yet in Bosnia, the muslims for example do not vote for the same party. There are some issue oriented political parties Kenya is the only country I know of where a person's tribe is the sole determinant of who gets elected. Other countries may have different levels of tribalism and ethnic chauvinism but when it comes to elections, Kenya is the worst.
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